Why did the chicken cross the road?

steerpike

we're off the see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz.

bigaac

How much do you earn? and how old is the child?

arran77

bigaac wrote:

How much do you earn? and how old is the child?

I think we're trying to keep income on the qt if the other thread is any indication

VTech

I think 500 is a fair amount considering what other people I know pay.

What is fair, what you can afford and what you should pay are all different answers really.
If you pay what you can afford, I think that makes it the right amount.

steerpike

thanks for the answers.

Yes, I know that it could/should be a means tested thing, but I wanted to get a ballpark figure.

Next question - what kind of things *should* it pay for?

pblakeney

steerpike wrote:

thanks for the answers.

Yes, I know that it could/should be a means tested thing, but I wanted to get a ballpark figure.

Next question - what kind of things *should* it pay for?

Unfortunately for you, that question is redundant.

If you go through official channels then it is based purely on income. A multi-millionaire will pay thousands per month. Need or ethics is not part of the equation.

steerpike

PBlakeney wrote:

steerpike wrote:

thanks for the answers.

Yes, I know that it could/should be a means tested thing, but I wanted to get a ballpark figure.

Next question - what kind of things *should* it pay for?

Unfortunately for you, that question is redundant.

If you go through official channels then it is based purely on income. A multi-millionaire will pay thousands per month. Need or ethics is not part of the equation.

wrong on both counts I'm afraid. It's not redundant, given that I have a private arrangement. Secondly, the upper limit has a ceiling so that even a multi-millionare would pay something like £300 a week max.

sloppyschleckonds

Thought the 'going rate' was deemed to be £105 a week exclusive of many factors.

VTech

I was of the belief that you had an obligation (if you could afford it) to keep your family in the life they have become accustomed too. Maybe that is a court claim ?
if your a multi-millionaire I doubt you would get away with £105/week ?

sungod

^^^this

steerpike

quick answer is - if you go through CSA, then upper limit is £294 a week, even if you earn 100k a week. If a county court is involved, then maybe they would rule differently.

pblakeney

steerpike wrote:

wrong on both counts I'm afraid. It's not redundant, given that I have a private arrangement. Secondly, the upper limit has a ceiling so that even a multi-millionare would pay something like £300 a week max.

It would appear that I am wrong then based on remembered news headlines.

As you would appear to be an expert, why ask the original question?

morstar

If you're a multi millionaire and have a child that lives with an estranged partner, I'd suggest the child should be kept to a decent standard. If you want to keep it below what you can afford due to issues with the mother and were going down a route of providing the minimum you have to, I'd think the decent thing to do is to find a way to put money aside for when they are older and the mother has no claim.

There's one major drawback to that though. By the time the kid is old enough to benefit from that money, the relationship could have gone considerably south if you're well off and the kid experiences a spartan childhood.

I'm not close to splitting up but, in darker times in our relationship and I've contemplated what it would it would mean. I would face a very difficult problem as my partner is absolutely hopeless (in the extreme) with money. It would break my heart to be giving her loads of child maintenance and yet see the kids with nothing, which I can guarantee would happen.

I have no idea how to reconcile this dilemma were we to split up.

steerpike

PBlakeney wrote:

steerpike wrote:

wrong on both counts I'm afraid. It's not redundant, given that I have a private arrangement. Secondly, the upper limit has a ceiling so that even a multi-millionare would pay something like £300 a week max.

It would appear that I am wrong then based on remembered news headlines.

As you would appear to be an expert, why ask the original question?

No need to be sarcastic - I asked the original question because I am interested what everyone pays - as I said, I am not at the whim of the CSA.

drlodge

The CSA rules have recently changed, child maintenance used to be based on net income, now its based on gross income.

From memory (2 children, I pay 40% tax):
It used to be 20% of net income.
Now its 16% of gross income up to £800 per week income, plus 12% of gross income of the amount > £800/week. The new arrangement works out about £100/month more expensive than the old arrangement for me.

If you have a private arrangement, its up to you to agree something, but the courts will assess its appropriateness against the new guidelines.

sloppyschleckonds

^So it sounds like Ex- Mrs Steerpike knows there is a bit more money in the pot 'due' to her with the changing rules.

Whats never taken into account is the access to the child(ren) but I guess the best course of action is not to involve the CSA if possible.

bigaac

I own a car, it costs me £x per month. What does somebody else who owns a car pay?

I might be mistaken but i really can't see the point of the thread. The OP seems to know the facts and isn't 'at the whim of the CSA' so the whole scenario is apple and oranges. There is no comparison to be made without knowing each persons circumstances.

If you think you're paying too much why not speak with the CSA and ask them (anonymously if necessary) what somebody earning your salary can expect to pay?

Philly8mt

Gives you everything you need to calculate payment on the CSA website tbf ...

steerpike

bigaac wrote:

I own a car, it costs me £x per month. What does somebody else who owns a car pay?

I might be mistaken but i really can't see the point of the thread. The OP seems to know the facts and isn't 'at the whim of the CSA' so the whole scenario is apple and oranges. There is no comparison to be made without knowing each persons circumstances.

If you think you're paying too much why not speak with the CSA and ask them (anonymously if necessary) what somebody earning your salary can expect to pay?

Your analogy of a car is ridiculous.

I thought I'd been quite clear but obviously not - I know exactly what I would be paying if I was on the CSA - I can use the online calculator in 2 minutes. I simply wanted to get a quick feeling for what others might be paying for one child in a private arrangement. I think the Gov is quite clear on the cost of raising a child so it might be argued that all should pay similar, not sure I agree but you get the point.

ballysmate

steerpike wrote:

bigaac wrote:

I own a car, it costs me £x per month. What does somebody else who owns a car pay?

I might be mistaken but i really can't see the point of the thread. The OP seems to know the facts and isn't 'at the whim of the CSA' so the whole scenario is apple and oranges. There is no comparison to be made without knowing each persons circumstances.

If you think you're paying too much why not speak with the CSA and ask them (anonymously if necessary) what somebody earning your salary can expect to pay?

Your analogy of a car is ridiculous.

I thought I'd been quite clear but obviously not - I know exactly what I would be paying if I was on the CSA - I can use the online calculator in 2 minutes. I simply wanted to get a quick feeling for what others might be paying for one child in a private arrangement. I think the Gov is quite clear on the cost of raising a child so it might be argued that all should pay similar, not sure I agree but you get the point.

Not separated so perhaps have a different view. The Government can estimate the cost of raising a kid, but if you can afford more, why would you begrudge it?
Any bitterness between separated couples should be put aside.
Doesn't matter what others pay, listen to your conscience. Plenty of people think it right that they should pare the payments down to the bare minimum.

pblakeney

Someone is clearly looking for online validation.

Yes, go ahead. Pay less maintenance for your child' s support.

Validation or sarcasm? You choose.

bdu98252

I say screw the child through the mother. Lets face it any money saved my making the kid work like in the good old Orwellian times can go to the deposit on a BMW M3. Because sounds like you need to score a new chick and the M3 will be the best way:) Any more lifestyle advice I would have to charge for. I too am saving for and M3. Does £100ph seem reasonable for my pearls of wisdom.

VTech

I think the problem isn't always about what you can afford or wether as a father you give the kids more.
Many men are married to women who would take the cash and spend it on themself rather than the kids so of course in that scenario people wouldnt want to give everything they have.
It's always going to be difficult, as a kid my real dad have me nothing except a second hand bike that broke soon after. He has never seen his grand kids and I doubt would be bothered. I guess that's life.
My stepfather have me everything he could, even walking to work instead of catching the bus so I could go on a school trip.

I read a line on Instagram the other day by a girl I knew as a child and it said "your kids will remember what you did with them as children and not what you bought them"
Out a lump in my through as I personal haven't given mine half the time I should so maybe that's the investment we need to give rather than cash and goods ?

wannabecyclist

Working in the financial services I have seen low life Fathers not declaring their self employed income so only pay £5 a week, if anything. I have also seen cases where the Fathers are paying £700 a month out of a 1.7k monthly salary only for the Mother to use this money to fund a new Land Rover on £400 a month HP and the other £300 to go towards paying off loans she took out to pay for her wedding to a new partner. Whatever you pay, make sure you know it is going where you think it is, eg clubs/activities for your children and not to your ex partners new fellas new motorbike.

sloppyschleckonds

wannabecyclist wrote:

Working in the financial services I have seen low life Fathers not declaring their self employed income so only pay £5 a week, if anything. I have also seen cases where the Fathers are paying £700 a month out of a 1.7k monthly salary only for the Mother to use this money to fund a new Land Rover on £400 a month HP and the other £300 to go towards paying off loans she took out to pay for her wedding to a new partner. Whatever you pay, make sure you know it is going where you think it is, eg clubs/activities for your children and not to your ex partners new fellas new motorbike.

Good advise WBC

steerpike

PBlakeney wrote:

Someone is clearly looking for online validation.

Yes, go ahead. Pay less maintenance for your child' s support.

Validation or sarcasm? You choose.

You know NOTHING of my situation and are a supremely sanctimonious and ignorant individual. Ignored.

steerpike

wannabecyclist wrote:

Working in the financial services I have seen low life Fathers not declaring their self employed income so only pay £5 a week, if anything. I have also seen cases where the Fathers are paying £700 a month out of a 1.7k monthly salary only for the Mother to use this money to fund a new Land Rover on £400 a month HP and the other £300 to go towards paying off loans she took out to pay for her wedding to a new partner. Whatever you pay, make sure you know it is going where you think it is, eg clubs/activities for your children and not to your ex partners new fellas new motorbike.

This is exactly my situation - I am subsidising the lifestyle of my ex and her new husband while my daughter gets zilch from my contribution (notwithstanding the contribution to housing).

VTech

steerpike wrote:

wannabecyclist wrote:

Working in the financial services I have seen low life Fathers not declaring their self employed income so only pay £5 a week, if anything. I have also seen cases where the Fathers are paying £700 a month out of a 1.7k monthly salary only for the Mother to use this money to fund a new Land Rover on £400 a month HP and the other £300 to go towards paying off loans she took out to pay for her wedding to a new partner. Whatever you pay, make sure you know it is going where you think it is, eg clubs/activities for your children and not to your ex partners new fellas new motorbike.

This is exactly my situation - I am subsidising the lifestyle of my ex and her new husband while my daughter gets zilch from my contribution (notwithstanding the contribution to housing).

I can't begin to imagine how this must be effecting you.
Sadly, for what Ive heard, there is no legislation to what the mother must spend the money on which is a nightmare. Its a legal wrangle that feeds only the lawyers in the end. Common sense would tell you that you pay for your girl and no one else and as I said early in the thread, you must do what makes you feel good/worthy and this should only relate to your daughter as your wife has found a new chap who should be the one supplementing her lifestyle.

Law is an ass though so what sounds right and correct isn't often the way the law works.

steerpike

@VTech - thanks for the reply. This was always going to be an emotive subject and probably not one for a bike forum so I'm not sure I have any arguments that folk wade in from a position of ignorance and accuse me of trying to do the dirty on my child. I have always done my absolute best and likewise try and provide the very best. She is clearly not getting this from the current arrangement so some re-distribution of wealth will have to be done (i.e. less to the-ex and more directly to my daughter),

VTech

I honestly think your motives are none of our business. If your a good man you will do whats right for your child (as you seem to want to do) and thats good. If your a bad man you won't in which case you wouldn't be worth the effort to reply too.

I actually have a friend who is a great guy, been my friend since we were children of around 8 years old and he pays minimum maintenance and doesn't see his kid, his choice mainly as he isn't bothered.
In general i would dislike such a man but I do like him but at the same time chose to ignore the negatives.

I couldn't imagine living separately to my kids but at the same time I don't think I would need to explain to anyone here how I would feel if another man was living comfortably in my house if the wife kicked me out and wanted cash for her and the kids.

Its a tough spot to be in and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially if the mom puts herself before the kids. It becomes a right mess and your then in a position of trying to sort out cash flow without looking like someone who simply doesn't want to pay.

bigaac

steerpike wrote:

bigaac wrote:

I own a car, it costs me £x per month. What does somebody else who owns a car pay?

I might be mistaken but i really can't see the point of the thread. The OP seems to know the facts and isn't 'at the whim of the CSA' so the whole scenario is apple and oranges. There is no comparison to be made without knowing each persons circumstances.

If you think you're paying too much why not speak with the CSA and ask them (anonymously if necessary) what somebody earning your salary can expect to pay?

Your analogy of a car is ridiculous.

I thought I'd been quite clear but obviously not - I know exactly what I would be paying if I was on the CSA - I can use the online calculator in 2 minutes. I simply wanted to get a quick feeling for what others might be paying for one child in a private arrangement. I think the Gov is quite clear on the cost of raising a child so it might be argued that all should pay similar, not sure I agree but you get the point.

So there is the question. It makes sense now, but it isn't what is written in the OP.

That aside, i hope you work it out, never nice seeing a child caught in the middle when things turn ugly.