Garmin 1000 First Impressions

meanredspider

My Garmin 1000 arrived today and here's my first thoughts.

There's a lot on it. I like the display and the layout follows Garmin's usual Edge set-up which makes it feel a little more intuitive to use. That said, I've still needed to refer to the manual a few times to figure out where things are. The device is about the same size as an iPhone 4S and has a good-sized screen. I found following the map much more straightforward than my 800. There's loads of connectivity - in fact, almost too much - I'm not really sure what's talking to what (Garmin, iPhone, computer) over what connection (BT, WiFi, cable) at any particular moment - that's all a bit confusing. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it. The speed sensor is a more sensible arrangement at it clips to the hub of the wheel rather than using a magnet. I'm not sure I like the HRM - it may have just been adjusted too tight but I had some nice "bra strap" lines around my chest from the edges of the band. I'm not sure this arrangement is a step forward.

I've only just set up a segment so I can't tell you how well that works but I do like the idea of it telling where segments start and whether I'm ahead or behind (at least you can bail out early if you aren't "on it" or give it the extra beans if you're close). Whether it will drag people away from Strava I doubt.

All-in-all, it looks like a good bit of kit. I'll be using it in anger on Alpe D'HuZes (AD6) and will set up live tracking for anyone who wants to follow my suffering on the day!

mtb-idle

cheers MRS,

you may have already checked out DC rainmaker before you bought but if not it's worth checking him out:

DC Rainmaker Garmin 1000 review

notsoblue

I'm looking forward to see this work with the new SRAM wireless gruppo...

Yum.

meanredspider

MTB-Idle wrote:

cheers MRS,

you may have already checked out DC rainmaker before you bought but if not it's worth checking him out:

DC Rainmaker Garmin 1000 review

Yes - I saw this - I'm looking forward to the full review.

Playing with segments. At the moment it seems a bit clunky. I don't seem to be able to upload my own segments to my device (they're still generating a leaderboard which seems to be taking forever) but I can load the handful that are already out there.

The navigation looks pretty good - I was pretty happy with the route it suggested for my commute - especially as I have "avoid busy roads" selected and it kept me off the A9 (the most obvious and direct route)

The other really nice feature is the speed with which it gets satellite lock - there's some sort of pre-loading feature which makes it ultra fast..

Haven't yet found out how to display incoming call or text alerts on the screen. More reading to do...

itboffin

So let me get this straight, the mobile alerts only work with iOS, the useless read only gear data only with shimaNO di2 which of course no one uses, plus who doesn't know what gear they're in by feel?

The screen is larger and has full maps which is basically like pulling up next to a stranger and asking for directions, no man needs directions we just know the right way, its instinct!

Battery life is greatly reduced meaning our usual 17 hour commutes will be unrecorded therefore lowering our SCR stats status.

And it's has some form of 1990s WiFi which can only be used at home if the wind is blowing in the right direction.

Plus DCR says the new HR strap leaves attractive moob marks

All for twice the cost of an 810

I'm in! where do I sign up?

meanredspider

Ah - but the segments idea is awesome - if just not quite yet perfected.

It is a MUCH more complete device than the 800.

And, since when EXACTLY, did cost come into anything to do with cycling?

itboffin

meanredspider wrote:

Ah - but the segments idea is awesome - if just not quite yet perfected.

It is a MUCH more complete device than the 800.

And, since when EXACTLY, did cost come into anything to do with cycling?

yeah good point

redvee

itboffin wrote:

Plus DCR says the new HR strap leaves attractive moob marks

I'm in! where do I sign up?

Another positive point for ITB to buy one

meanredspider

Did another ride today - this time off-road up a Cat 2 climb to a wind farm. Tried the Live Tracking feature. What's there seems good though it is a bit shaky when phone reception is poor. It stopped the tracking a long way short despite the fact I only turned it off at the end.

I do like the new screen though - so much clearer than the 800. The maps are good too - clearly marked off-road routes. Also the navigate to start of course is much better.

wytco0

Can anyone with one comment on the Tether? I understand that unlike the 810 the 1000 has one but I cant find any photos or info about it. Having lost (and found) my 810 a tether is now a must have for me.

dodgy

I used the tether for the first 2 rides, but it's completely redundant. There's nowhere on the bike to anchor it without making it difficult to remove the Edge. What it needs is a tiny carabina, then you could clip to a part of the bike and have it easily removable. Even then, I wouldn't use it, the standard mount is secure enough.

meanredspider

I have to say that the 1000 doesn't clip quite so reassuringly into the mount as the 800 does. I'm not sure the feather is useful though I did destroy a Go-Pro when it fell off my bike because the mount failed. But I do think that Garmin have included something as an a$$ covering exercise rather with any real expectation it will be used

il_principe

I wish Garmin would just stop trying to do their own mapping/segments etc and sign a deal with (or just buy) Strava.

MonkeyMonster

so not an entry level garmin then

dodgy

Il Principe wrote:

I wish Garmin would just stop trying to do their own mapping/segments etc and sign a deal with (or just buy) Strava.

I'm not sure if Garmin could afford them. Given that these days companies are valued on the basis of the number of active subscribers (think Facebook and the kind of crazy purchasing they've been doing of nebulous companies with no actual product or property).

Facebook, I reckon that they could afford Strava, and now I'm thinking about it, I think it could happen. Just think of all that juicy location data.

dhope

dodgy wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

I wish Garmin would just stop trying to do their own mapping/segments etc and sign a deal with (or just buy) Strava.

I'm not sure if Garmin could afford them. Given that these days companies are valued on the basis of the number of active subscribers (think Facebook and the kind of crazy purchasing they've been doing of nebulous companies with no actual product or property).

Facebook, I reckon that they could afford Strava, and now I'm thinking about it, I think it could happen. Just think of all that juicy location data.

Google could just buy Garmin and Strava.
Given Strava are moving into selling location data to local government, planning departments etc. I'm sure they've got to be on the radar of a lot of the tech giants.

dodgy

Interesting debate. But when you think about it, a Garmin GPS is just a crippled smartphone (no GSM), Google could release an optimised version of Android the appropriate hardware and kill Garmin overnight, or at least enough to severely harm them.
This might be the last Garmin device I buy, not because there's anything wrong with the Edge 1000, it's great, but they've already almost converged. I already carry a smartphone to prop up the lack of connectivity of the Edge. Either Garmin should put a GSM modem in the device (they've done it before with Garmin automotive models, I used to have one, see also Kindle 3g models), or there's going to be a new battery optimised smartphone with sensitive GPS ready to steal market share.

mtb-idle

dodgy wrote:

Interesting debate. But when you think about it, a Garmin GPS is just a crippled smartphone (no GSM), Google could release an optimised version of Android the appropriate hardware and kill Garmin overnight, or at least enough to severely harm them.
This might be the last Garmin device I buy, not because there's anything wrong with the Edge 1000, it's great, but they've already almost converged. I already carry a smartphone to prop up the lack of connectivity of the Edge. Either Garmin should put a GSM modem in the device (they've done it before with Garmin automotive models, I used to have one, see also Kindle 3g models), or there's going to be a new battery optimised smartphone with sensitive GPS ready to steal market share.

yeah I tend to agree but I think Garmin realised this a couple of years ago.

Originally the Garmin was the preserve of the geeky guy, the one who enjoyed poring over OS maps and had a new toy to play with. They were priced out of the normal riders reach.

But then smartphones came along and Garmin realised they were losing out market share to the strava type apps (and other).

They upped their game and units became cheaper & more user-friendly.

They are still subject to a buy-out but are in a better position than they were.

They still lag behind the likes of strava and veloviewer etc.

But a garmin tends to have a longer battery life and do what it says on the tin better than a smart phone hence they keep on limping along.

MonkeyMonster

So what's the most sensible priced garmin now, taking the above into consideration and other items too?

dodgy

MonkeyMonster wrote:

So what's the most sensible priced garmin now, taking the above into consideration and other items too?

If you just purely want to gather ride data, then the Garmin Edge 200 is tremendous value.

dhope

MTB-Idle wrote:

dodgy wrote:

Interesting debate. But when you think about it, a Garmin GPS is just a crippled smartphone (no GSM), Google could release an optimised version of Android the appropriate hardware and kill Garmin overnight, or at least enough to severely harm them.
This might be the last Garmin device I buy, not because there's anything wrong with the Edge 1000, it's great, but they've already almost converged. I already carry a smartphone to prop up the lack of connectivity of the Edge. Either Garmin should put a GSM modem in the device (they've done it before with Garmin automotive models, I used to have one, see also Kindle 3g models), or there's going to be a new battery optimised smartphone with sensitive GPS ready to steal market share.

yeah I tend to agree but I think Garmin realised this a couple of years ago.

Originally the Garmin was the preserve of the geeky guy, the one who enjoyed poring over OS maps and had a new toy to play with. They were priced out of the normal riders reach.

But then smartphones came along and Garmin realised they were losing out market share to the strava type apps (and other).

They upped their game and units became cheaper & more user-friendly.

They are still subject to a buy-out but are in a better position than they were.

They still lag behind the likes of strava and veloviewer etc.

But a garmin tends to have a longer battery life and do what it says on the tin better than a smart phone hence they keep on limping along.

If Google or Nokia/MS released a high end phone with decent GPS then I could probably bin the Garmin for good (and they'd take me away from Apple too). I'd be quite happy to do so, Garmin don't seem to have anything approaching a modern UI. They could/should use a stripped down Android and produce an app. I can't see how the Garmin 1000 can justify its price compared to an iPhone, for example.
Now that some phones are being made waterproof too...

mudcovered

Speaking as someone who has just switched from using a smartphone GPS to a Garmin Edge 810. I'd view it like this:

The phone has the following in its favour:
1. Good connectivity with immediate and automatic data sync after a ride.
2. UI is in general easier to use.

Phone downsides:
1. Always worrying about battery life on long rides.
2. Elevation data is questionable as its not something GPS alone can do accurately.
3. Not terribly practical to handlebar mount most current smartphones.
4. Phone touchscreen doesn't always work if you are wearing gloves.

The Garmin addresses the downsides of the phone but comes with the downside that you have to tether it to a computer or a smartphone to get the data out of the device. This isn't an issue for me asI really don't care about knowing when a strava segment starts and ends while I'm out riding.

In terms of GPS accuracy there isn't much to chose between the Garmin and the phones I've used (Nokia E66 with sportstracker and HTC One X+ with Strava App). My older HTX One X was noticably worse than both the Nokia and the One X+ though.

Not sure any of the current smartphone OS's could be made as battery efficient as the Garmin devices without an awful lot of work.

Mike

meanredspider

Yup - I think smartphones have some way to go before they're competing with the Garmin. Smartphone GPS accuracy is really dodgy: if you're after a short Strava segment time ALWAYS measure it on a smartphone - at least once in a while it will give you 10 metres advantage. And, as above, elevation data is HOPELESS - a friend crosses the Kessock Bridge and posts his commute. Now you can see what the profile of the Kessock Bridge is and the Garmin represents it pretty accurately. The smartphone would match the profile-drawing skills of my 1 year old niece.

Now, I'm sure phones will catch up eventually but it will be a while.

dhope

meanredspider wrote:

Now, I'm sure phones will catch up eventually but it will be a while.

Yep, I've got a Garmin 800 and use it for proper rides. I just don't think the phone makers think it's worth the expense to put a proper GPS chip in because of the small number of people that it would appeal to. It's a shame - Garmin get to charge £400 for what is essentially a £100 smart phone with a proper battery and GPS.

il_principe

Phones are miles off being a viable Garmin alternative.
No way would any current generation smartphone be able to handle a 5 or 6 hour ride, let alone a day in the saddle.
I don't want £800 of smart phone attached to my bars, what if I crash?
The Garmin can handle getting very hot, my iPhone shuts down after too long in the sun.
The Garmin is water resistant, not sure I'd trust a 3rd party cover to do the same for my phone.
Smartphones are getting stupidly big.
It's hard to read a smartphone screen in direct sunlight, not so with the Garmin.

etc etc.

As I see it Garmin have 2 problems:

1: Lack of viable competition has made them lazy
2: Their online planning/mapping/tracking offering is terrible

I don't understand why Garmin are trying to go their own way with Segment matching. I can't imagine being bothered to replicate segments from Strava into Garmin. Easier to just memorise the time i want to beat and use the lap function.

Be nice if someone could combine the Edge with Strava's segment function and userbase and RideWithGps' route planning.

menthel

Il Principe wrote:

Phones are miles off being a viable Garmin alternative.
No way would any current generation smartphone be able to handle a 5 or 6 hour ride, let alone a day in the saddle.
I don't want £800 of smart phone attached to my bars, what if I crash?
The Garmin can handle getting very hot, my iPhone shuts down after too long in the sun.
The Garmin is water resistant, not sure I'd trust a 3rd party cover to do the same for my phone.
Smartphones are getting stupidly big.
It's hard to read a smartphone screen in direct sunlight, not so with the Garmin.

etc etc.

As I see it Garmin have 2 problems:

1: Lack of viable competition has made them lazy
2: Their online planning/mapping/tracking offering is terrible

I don't understand why Garmin are trying to go their own way with Segment matching. I can't imagine being bothered to replicate segments from Strava into Garmin. Easier to just memorise the time i want to beat and use the lap function.

Be nice if someone could combine the Edge with Strava's segment function and userbase and RideWithGps' route planning.

Agree with point 1, their competition does seem to be trying (bryton, mio) but they have such a small market share that they have no impact. Point 2 is simple to fix by using another mappying service and strava. I like ridewithgps personally.

I can see the advantage of the 1000 though, that screen looks a lot better for navigation than my 800.

meanredspider

The Garmin 1000 routing seems much better than the 800 - almost too much so. A route I tried on Saturday was downloaded from Strava and I didn't start at exactly the beginning (the guy's house). That seemed to confuse the Garmin slightly as it was sure whether I was on my way out or on my way back (or whether it was navigating me to the start - which it had done though it no longer seems to ask). On the ride, then, it gave me directions to get me to the end leading me to take a wrong turn. I would have minded less if it hadn't taken me off a 50 minute, 500m Cat 2 off-road Strava segment which I was on-track from a top 4 placing and nearly at the end :evil:

The commuting route it chose me was pretty good - not perfect but good enough to feel confident that it's considering the right things. I'm hoping to try the segment capability this evening to see what happens.

menthel

meanredspider wrote:

The Garmin 1000 routing seems much better than the 800 - almost too much so. A route I tried on Saturday was downloaded from Strava and I didn't start at exactly the beginning (the guy's house). That seemed to confuse the Garmin slightly as it was sure whether I was on my way out or on my way back (or whether it was navigating me to the start - which it had done though it no longer seems to ask). On the ride, then, it gave me directions to get me to the end leading me to take a wrong turn. I would have minded less if it hadn't taken me off a 50 minute, 500m Cat 2 off-road Strava segment which I was on-track from a top 4 placing and nearly at the end :evil:

The commuting route it chose me was pretty good - not perfect but good enough to feel confident that it's considering the right things. I'm hoping to try the segment capability this evening to see what happens.

Can you not turn off the rerouting bits as you can with the 800? I wouldn't want it to bugger up my hard planned cycle routes!

pollys_bott

Il Principe wrote:

Phones are miles off being a viable Garmin alternative.
No way would any current generation smartphone be able to handle a 5 or 6 hour ride, let alone a day in the saddle.

Not sure about that - my Galaxy SII recorded the Fred Whitton fine and was still going a couple of hours later, so about 10 hours battery life.

Trying to get my bl00dy Edge 500 to upload rides though... :evil: :evil: :evil: Not sure whether the Strava app on the phone is backing up the Garmin or vice versa...

MonkeyMonster

Seems google is adding in elevation to its maps...

http://www.cio.co.uk/news/r-and-d/googl ... mail&no1x1

meanredspider

menthel wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

The Garmin 1000 routing seems much better than the 800 - almost too much so. A route I tried on Saturday was downloaded from Strava and I didn't start at exactly the beginning (the guy's house). That seemed to confuse the Garmin slightly as it was sure whether I was on my way out or on my way back (or whether it was navigating me to the start - which it had done though it no longer seems to ask). On the ride, then, it gave me directions to get me to the end leading me to take a wrong turn. I would have minded less if it hadn't taken me off a 50 minute, 500m Cat 2 off-road Strava segment which I was on-track from a top 4 placing and nearly at the end :evil:

The commuting route it chose me was pretty good - not perfect but good enough to feel confident that it's considering the right things. I'm hoping to try the segment capability this evening to see what happens.

Can you not turn off the rerouting bits as you can with the 800? I wouldn't want it to bugger up my hard planned cycle routes!

I'm not really sure what was going on. There's lots in the device and it takes a bit of learning. On the positive side, it does show you the route on the map so it's easy to double-check you're going the right way and it doesn't mess with those. As I say, it may just be that it was confused about whether I was coming or going or starting. My 800 was terrible for that : I'd start a 100 mile route from my flat and it would immediately start pointing me the way I'd come because the route overlaps for the last half mile...