Best efforts come at the end of long/hard rides

andyeb

Recently I've started noticing a puzzling trend in my riding - provided I'm properly fuelled, I seem to put in my best performances on medium to long Strava segments at the end of 2+ hours of hard riding.

This seems counter-intuitive - I feel more tired, having done very significantly more than a 20 minute warm-up, yet can push harder for longer without running out of gas.

Does anyone know why this might be? What can I learn about my fitness from this? What should I work on so that I can push harder earlier in rides, without paying for it big-time later on?

I've always been a bit slow to warm-up - typically do 20 minutes, consisting of 10 minutes of progressive work up to threshold, recover and then do a couple of high RPM spin ups before recovering again.

ai_1

I've often noticed something similar. It seems to me that I get aclimatised to high workload and find it easier to push that little bit harder as compared to cruising at an easy pace and then trying to ramp up the output. As you say, this is dependent on still being in decent shape and not yet fatigued. I've found the same when running. I went for long run a while back on a route I know well. I ran 3x5km laps. I did the first lap with a friend who was taking it very easy and going much further than I usually do. My plan was to then accelerate and do the remaining 2 laps just a little faster than usual. But when I got to 5km and tried to raise the pace it was horrible. Much harder than starting out fast or going from fast to faster. I was up to speed by the last few km but it was much harder to finish fast after starting slow than it would normally be to finish fast after starting fast.

supermurph09

I think sometimes whilst your legs might be fresh and ready to attack after 20 minutes, you're brain has not quite got itself in gear to deal with the efforts. So attacking later on when you've mentally prepared the better efforts may come.

andyeb

Ai_1 wrote:

I've often noticed something similar. It seems to me that I get aclimatised to high workload and find it easier to push that little bit harder as compared to cruising at an easy pace and then trying to ramp up the output. As you say, this is dependent on still being in decent shape and not yet fatigued. I've found the same when running. I went for long run a while back on a route I know well. I ran 3x5km laps. I did the first lap with a friend who was taking it very easy and going much further than I usually do. My plan was to then accelerate and do the remaining 2 laps just a little faster than usual. But when I got to 5km and tried to raise the pace it was horrible. Much harder than starting out fast or going from fast to faster. I was up to speed by the last few km but it was much harder to finish fast after starting slow than it would normally be to finish fast after starting fast.

Exactly - glad it's not just me

andyeb

Supermurph09 wrote:

I think sometimes whilst your legs might be fresh and ready to attack after 20 minutes, you're brain has not quite got itself in gear to deal with the efforts. So attacking later on when you've mentally prepared the better efforts may come.

Mental may well be a part of it, but I don't think it's the whole story; really hard efforts after a decent warmup tend to leave me with a stitch or my legs simply give up before my HR/breathing has even picked up. But I can manage the same hard effort on the back of hard ride, without any problem - it even feels good.

One possible theory I've come up with is that it takes a while for my overall metabolic rate to pickup. Although my heart and lungs can catch up with a sudden demand relatively quickly, maybe the systems which supply fuel take much longer to get going?

Maybe I will try experimenting with different length warmups before each 10TT - try 20, 40, 60, 90 minute warmups and see which produces the best time? I do simulated 10TT runs on the turbo, which would provide a well controlled environment.

homers_double

When I was training (read:- messing about) getting ready for an enduro MTB race four of us did a ride together, I was knackered around 10 miles, everyone else bonked around 18 and I eventually got going at 15 and beasted the last 9 miles.

I wondered if it was something to do with the body using up fuel in the system and then switching to reserves... Which I have an abundance of.

JayKosta

I doubt that it is related to the amount or type of 'fuel' in your body, probably just your cardio system (heart and lungs) needs that long to get to high performance level.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

lc1981

Sounds like you should race, if you don't already!

owenlars

I think it was Edmund Burke and Ed Pavelka in The Complete Book of Long Distance Cycling who said they often noticed extra oomph at the end of long rides. For instance doing the last twenty of a 200 mile ride at 20 mph. They put it down to adrenalin. Obviously you have to keep enough in the tank to use the adrenalin though.

sloppyschleckonds

andyeb wrote:

Recently I've started noticing a puzzling trend in my riding - provided I'm properly fuelled, I seem to put in my best performances on medium to long Strava segments at the end of 2+ hours of hard riding.

Strava is a measurement of nothing.

briantrumpet

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Strava is a measurement of nothing.

It measures willies.

Graeme Jones

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

andyeb wrote:

Recently I've started noticing a puzzling trend in my riding - provided I'm properly fuelled, I seem to put in my best performances on medium to long Strava segments at the end of 2+ hours of hard riding.

Strava is a measurement of nothing.

That's why it's so popular as it measures nothing?
You get what you want to get out of strava and it is a good way of tracking A-B performance increases and obviously there are variables in weather but there are with other factors such as traffic, hydration, nutrition yadayada yadayada.
But it doesn't measure nothing otherwise it wouldn't exist

slowbike

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

andyeb wrote:

Recently I've started noticing a puzzling trend in my riding - provided I'm properly fuelled, I seem to put in my best performances on medium to long Strava segments at the end of 2+ hours of hard riding.

Strava is a measurement of nothing.

Says the man who can't see beyond the end of his own nose ...


Strava may not be for you and you may not even like the way some people use it - but to say it is a measurement of nothing is just false. It does give you a measure - that is a fact. You have to use that measure intelligently though and taking it at face value is not always the right answer.

andyeb

Note to self - never mention Strava in passing when asking a genuine question

markhewitt1978

2 hours doesn't seem that long? But yes I've noticed similar, that I'm at about my best at about 2 hours in. In particular I do take a time to warm up, others seem to be able to sprint away whereas I'm always struggling for the first 20 minutes, after that I can keep up.