Accident, no help, poor show

BigLights

So yesterday morning about 6am, on the way into work, a large motorbike gets clipped by a van (SMIDSY) - knocked onto the central island, leg trapped between his exhaust and the kerb, leg being burned and in huge amounts of pain. Also, fluid leaking from the motorbike onto the road. I was right there, so obviously I stopped and jumped off the bike. It fell to me and the van man to lift this whole bike off him (there was another woman in her 60s who did her best but I told her to focus on a 999 call). Despite having had surgery on my back 6 weeks ago and under strict orders not to lift anything, I didn't really think twice as this guy needed the bike off ASAP. I may have done myself some damage, we'll see when I see my surgeon again, but I have no regrets.

What I do find disappointing, and has rather dented my faith in humanity, is that at least 2 cyclists and several cars went past (I checked for a second just in case there was a saviour) us in the first minute or two as we were trying to lift the bike. Just as we got it off him, 3 white vans all stopped, lads jumped out, helped, emptied a fire extinguisher onto the fuel just in case etc.

Seriously, WTF? How can you NOT stop in a situation like that and live with yourself? To those Bad Samaratins, may Karma return to haunt you. It has also reminded me not to judge book by cover.....they may drive like plonkers, but these white van guys were the first to stop and get their hands dirty.

If there are that many people who lack a conscience then perhaps the law should be changed to obliged passersby to help in an accident, as in Germany for example.

anonymousblackfg

Well done, the right thing to do. It shows how many c*nts there are out there but I think we all know that.

Mikey23

Chapeau

veronese68

Indeed, well done. That was entirely the right thing to do and I don't understand how people can justify not helping to themselves. If I did that I'd feel awful afterwards.
I stopped to help a guy that fell off his motorbike near the car park at the bottom of Box Hill. He'd obviously broken his arm and the motorbike was on fire. I asked him if he was ok and told him not to move, put the fire out quickly so it wouldn't spread, then went back to attend to him. Lots of other people were there and they just stood there gawping. Traffic was at a standstill as he and the bike were blocking the road. Nobody else helped, fortunately I could see an ambulance up the road so had professional help very quickly. The only bystander that said anything said "Cor, your bike's f@cked!" causing the bloke I was trying to keep still to try and lift himself up to look at the bike. Fortunately the pain from his broken arm stopped him from moving to far, that wasn't very humerus for him.
What hope is there when so many people are so selfish?

goonz

Chapeau for stopping and helping. Selfishness usually outweighs common decency.

Saw another bike accident on my way home yesterday too, about 3 ambulances and other vehicles there. Bike was mangled hope the rider is ok.

Colinthecop

I think the reaction of people nowadays is to grab their mobile and start filming... :?

rjsterry

Chapeau, sir! Hope the motorcyclist isn't too beaten up, and likewise your back.

ddraver

Hmmm, It's a funny world sometimes isnt it

I saw an old lady passed out on the pavement yesterday with a single solitary guy comforting her (as I write that I'm thnking I should have got off the bus at the nest stop and gone back but there's not a great deal extra I could ve done)

Same day I saw a woman getting CPR (from a very cool looking machine) who was surrounded by a crowd of gawpers. Worst of all there was a young girl looking utterly distraught (i assume she was with the lady in question) who no one - police or ambulance included - was thinking to comfort or move

Headhuunter

Well done for stopping, mate! I think sometimes it depends how obvious the need is and where the accident has taken place. It sounds like this happened in the middle of the road away from the flow of pedestrians and as for motorists, it's probably hard to stop your car in the middle of a lane to go to someone's aid and if drivers see there are other people already assisting they prob feel it's OK to carry on.

A few weeks ago I was walking along Pall Mall and about 50-100 metres ahead of me I saw a guy basically walk into the side of a moving car. He stepped off the pavement more or less into the side of it (black taxi I think) and kind of bounced off it onto the side of the road. I was a fair way off and there was some road furniture (signs, street lights etc) in the way so I didn't have completely clear vision of what happened. By the time I got there about 10 seconds later there were about 10 people gathered round already and the taxi had stopped... He had blood streaming from his nose but otherwise just looked very shocked but people were certainly trying to help out... Don't lose faith in humanity just yet!

veronese68

ddraver wrote:

Hmmm, It's a funny world sometimes isnt it

I saw an old lady passed out on the pavement yesterday with a single solitary guy comforting her (as I write that I'm thnking I should have got off the bus at the nest stop and gone back but there's not a great deal extra I could ve done)

Same day I saw a woman getting CPR (from a very cool looking machine) who was surrounded by a crowd of gawpers. Worst of all there was a young girl looking utterly distraught (i assume she was with the lady in question) who no one - police or ambulance included - was thinking to comfort or move

I think getting off a bus and going back when somebody is already getting help may be unnecessary, unless you're a doctor or something. If nobody was helping her it would be good.
I'd have thought reassuring friends or relatives in the second example is quite important, although secondary to saving a life of course.

markhewitt1978

Motorway this morning, there was a crash on the opposite carriageway. However someone on our side of the road had stopped to help, completely blocking Lane 2 (of 2). Right or wrong thing to do?

LiveGiantly

Well done for stopping, I applaud you, its the only and best thing to do if you're capable/confident enough to do it.....!!

Saw an elderly woman fall over a road hump, I rid to her, unclipped and gave her my assistance....do good and good will come back to you (it doesn't mattter how long it may take to come back around to you, it will surely come!)...

Unfortunately though, taking phones out and filming is starting to replace people helping...(don't get me wrong though if your filming a criminal - just like that guy who stole the £2000 bike the other day - then please continue)

Kieran_Burns

I've been involved twice in 'public' 1st Aid issues like this.

Once in Horsham (Sainsburys Petrol station) this little old lady was struggling with the door (heavy springs) and I was striding over to help, when she managed to get through but got catapulted into the shelves and went crashing through them. It really was quite spectacular and made a hell of a mess and a lot of noise.

It was kind of weird as everyone just stood frozen but I was running straight over and started the whole 1st Aid thing (ABC, Ambulance, top to toe, report etc etc) no one else came near until the Sainsburys 1st Aiders appeared from the main store and I did the hand over.

The other time was an RTA - there was a plethora of lookers-on but only one guy helping. I was driving by, so stopped and asked if they needed help. I did the same thing then, also treated for shock and the top to toe found a possible broken ankle. What made me laugh was when the Ambulance turned up, the guy asked "Okay, who's the 1st Aider?" The lady at the time said she felt much safer because someone was doing something, and knew what they were doing.

It's worth remembering that point: learning 1st Aid is a very very handy skill to have

davis

Mate of mine was injured in a grenade blast in Hungary a few years ago (some gang members were trying to kill other gangs) in a busy town square. His jugular/face was hit by shrapnel and he was quite literally bleeding to death.

Absolutely *everyone* stood around watching him die until a waiter from the other side of the square had the wherewithal to run over and hold his face together with a tablecloth. As soon as the waiter did that, people started behaving "reasonably". He's totally and utterly fine now, thankfully.

I think there's a massive inertia to crowds; if one person hesitates, then the next person is much more likely to hesitate. If a whole crowd of people are just stood around watching, then it's almost guaranteed that any person (including, sadly, you) will do the same.

BigLights

I'm not looking for accolades here people, but thanks anyway - I consider this to be what should be entirely normal behaviour, not in any way out of the ordinary, and shocking that plenty of others don't. This is also why I've done the requisite First Aid courses - if someone had a heartattack or similar, and I didn't know CPR, and I knew I could have learnt, I'd never be able to live with myself.

The motorcyclist in question sent me a very nice message of thanks - broken ankle, some burns, but will 'live to ride another day'. Good guy, tough cookie too - initially he was of the view that he didn't need to be taken to hospital!

I have involved myself in other incidents in the past, where the first aid training came in useful more in terms of incident management, as opposed to direct contact - and important lesson was always to check for hazards and organise other folks to stop traffic, call 999, make sure the Services can get through, or whatever, report back to you etc. Standard stuff.

Everyone should learn first aid. On a 2 day weekend course you'll learn enough to be able to make a real difference, should the need ever arise.

Re the Motorway thing - depends, I reckon. Probably not the right thing on balance, but what if the driver was a surgeon or doctor of some sort? In which case, perhaps it was worth it. But then, someone like that would be unlikely to stop in lane 2.

Headhuunter - nice to 'see' you!

elbowloh

Only time I've had to help was on the day I was told I needed to do the first aid course, so hadn't had any training yet.

Was walking down Whitehall at about 10pm and came across a guy on the floor with loads of blood coming from the back of his head. There was a girl there trying to call an ambulance, but she didn't have much English and didn't know where she was. She handed me the phone, so I directed them to the location and explained the situation.
I stemmed the blood with tissues and my jacket and kept him talking and conscious until the ambulance turned up. He was obviously concussed, he struggled to remember his name and didn't know how old he was.

When I had an off earlier this year near Tooting, I was bleeding profusely from the mouth and nose (lost 2 teeth), loads of people didn't stop, but an old lady did. She gave me tissues and insisted that we look for my teeth as she told me that "they can glue them back in". Some cyclists went past, slowed down to get a good look, but carried on. Not even a "alright mate".

Not an accident, but last year was out riding with a group of friends and near Epsom we came across a traffic jam, which was weird for a Sunday. We carried on past a line of cars for probably 3/4 of a kilometre to find the queue being caused by a car occupied by a group of young girls who didn't know what to do. None of the cars behind even get out of their cars (you'd think it would be in their best interests to help). So it was up to us cyclists to stop, try to push start it and, when that didn't work, get the car pushed off to the side to get traffic moving again.

squired

This story reminds me of the time I was taken over the bonnet of a left turning car, which immediately drove off. As I was laying there on the road at least three cars coming out of the side road (I landed pretty much on the give way hashes) just drove around me and carried on. Thankfully a cyclist that had been a little way behind me did stop.

Thankfully there are still plenty of good people out there, as we can see from some of the posts on here. I'm sure those same people who just ignore the situation and carry on their way would be the very same people ranting and raving the loudest if no-one came to help them or a member of their family in a similar situation.

fossyant

A couple of years back I saw a cyclist get knocked off 100 yards in front of me. I was straight over, told the chap to stay where he was as I phoned an ambulance - I told the driver to call but he just stood there. Fortunately a passing police car stopped and the ambulance wasn't far behind. The pub owner came out and offered to store the bike.

We had some random guy come over and I was a bit abrupt with him as to protect the cyclist - I asked him what was he to do with the cyclist - turns out it was a friend so that was OK. Driver was useless, and got points in the end - turned out he was a black cab driver too.

I've since become friends with the cyclist as we both ride the same route, and assited him at court.

kamiokande

Weird thing this, I think there are some people who would just stop regardless and try to help and then the vast majority of people who will assess the situation and make an almost subconscious decision of whether to stop or not. I don't think it's selfishness but probably shock and just a lack of confidence that they can be of any use.

About 5 years ago I was walking home after a night out past a house which is in a big sort of compound, the compound has 8ft walls and big steel gates, just outside it there's a bit of grass/waste ground on which was a caravan. This caravan was on fire, flames billowing out of the windows etc, and there was a bloke banging on the steel gates shouting "Steve! Steve!". To this day I can't understand why I did this but I just walked past, didn't ask the bloke if I could help, or ring the fire brigade or anything. I very much regret it but I don't think it was due to selfishness, at least not consciously, I just didn't know how to react and it probably didn't help that I was drunk and half asleep at that point.

I didn't even think until the next day that there could have been someone in the caravan. I'm 99% sure there wasn't 'cos this guy had lots of caravans in his compound and I saw it there a few days previously and it was in a bit of a state and I passed the next day and although it was a bit singed there was no sign of emergency services any kind of activity.

To make up for it somewhat - A few weeks later I was walking in foul weather and an old lady just ahead of me fell straight on her face (thankfully she was so well wrapped up she sort of rolled). I helped her up and wanted to call an ambulance but she was adamant that I shouldn't. So I carried her bags to her house a few streets away.

People stopping just to film incidents on mobile phones is shocking to me though, I can't understand why people would do that.

bunter

Apparently the psychological term for this is the 'Bystander Effect'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

The bystander effect, or bystander apathy, is a social psychological phenomenon that refers to cases in which individuals do not offer any means of help to a victim when other people are present. The probability of help is inversely related to the number of bystanders. In other words, the greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that any one of them will help.

weird, isn't it?

Headhuunter

BigLights wrote:

I'm not looking for accolades here people, but thanks anyway - I consider this to be what should be entirely normal behaviour, not in any way out of the ordinary, and shocking that plenty of others don't. This is also why I've done the requisite First Aid courses - if someone had a heartattack or similar, and I didn't know CPR, and I knew I could have learnt, I'd never be able to live with myself.

The motorcyclist in question sent me a very nice message of thanks - broken ankle, some burns, but will 'live to ride another day'. Good guy, tough cookie too - initially he was of the view that he didn't need to be taken to hospital!

I have involved myself in other incidents in the past, where the first aid training came in useful more in terms of incident management, as opposed to direct contact - and important lesson was always to check for hazards and organise other folks to stop traffic, call 999, make sure the Services can get through, or whatever, report back to you etc. Standard stuff.

Everyone should learn first aid. On a 2 day weekend course you'll learn enough to be able to make a real difference, should the need ever arise.

Re the Motorway thing - depends, I reckon. Probably not the right thing on balance, but what if the driver was a surgeon or doctor of some sort? In which case, perhaps it was worth it. But then, someone like that would be unlikely to stop in lane 2.

Headhuunter - nice to 'see' you!

Nice to "see" you too! Funny that he didn't want to go to hospital after the crash... Remember that time I had that crash back in 09 when we worked together? I remember being catapulted over the cars bonnet and then everything was blank and then I remember opening my eyes and seeing all these faces peering down at me as I lay on the tarmac.... My first thought was I need to get back on my bike and get to work or I'll be late and as I started to get up people started yelling "don't move" and all I could think was "why not? I'm fine".... I think you lose all sense of pain with the adrenalin of the moment...

jamesco

bunter wrote:

Apparently the psychological term for this is the 'Bystander Effect'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Dead right.

Who hasn't sat on a bus/tube/plane wanting to ask another passenger to turn their mobile/tablet down? No one actually says anything, even though 90% are thinking the same thing. Being trained to react to situations in a certain way (e.g. KB's first aid) makes it much easier to act; also, if there's nothing useful one can do it's probably better to move on.

BigLights

Bystander effect is an interesting one.

One of the things I was once taught was if you're in trouble, need help, being attacked or whatever and there is a crowd it's actually less likely you'll get help. However, the trick is to look an individual in the eye and point at them, saying you in the red jacket help me. Do this one by one and there is a good chance you can break the group torpor.

This also stands for a situation where you are helping. Select individuals, one at a time, give them a task (call 999, turn the car off, stop traffic, check for leaking liquid, keep these other people back and so forth) and, importantly, let you know when that task is done. Shouting 'someone stop traffic' is much less effective.

This goes back to the core lesson: sometimes it's far more useful for you to be taking a step back, assessing the situation and imposing some order to it to get a process going.

But that still requires people to have stopped......

The Rookie

There are many factors involved in why people stand there doing nothing (or carry on past doing nothing).

2 examples
1/ Was watching a rally in Wales when a car hit the bank below me before destroying itself over the next 50 yards, coming to rest right in front of a group of spectators who were less than 10 yards from the car, I was first on the scene getting the slightly injured drivers door open and him out despite having to cover near enough 10 times the distance, they were literally frozen with 'shock' (use what word you want) - The driver was a certain C McRae as it happens.

2/ Was driving through France when (on the opposite carriageway) I spotted a Policeman flag down a car to stop which stopped in the 'fast lane', the following Mercedes was caught unaware and despite locking his wheels was probably still doing circa 80 as it hit the first car, I saw the rear of the first car and part of the underside in my rear view mirror, I didn't stop as with a 12 months old and a 4 year old in the car I really didn't want them to be exposed to what was likely to be there, besides the Police were already there.

BigLights

We were right behind a massive accident in France a few years ago. British and French cars, head on collision. Middle aged British couple. The lady was remarkably OK, as it was only the drivers' half of the car that got hit. Her husband, however, didn't make it. We had to make her stay in the car, with her dead husband, until the ambulance came. She was so distraught, poor lady, that my dad went with her to the hospital, stayed, then dealt with the consulate, body etc, and accompanied her home (he's an ex diplomat, so knows the score). Every car stopped for that one - I think in France you are legally obliged to.

A couple of years ago, my dad repeated this performance whilst we were on a family holiday with my wife and kid in Portugal. British couple, husband had a heart attack whilst swimming in the sea, sadly passed despite the heroic efforts of the lifeguards, so again he dealt with this lady's situation, consulate, body, and took her home.

mroli

I once had my foot run over on a motorbike by a large earth moving lorry. One of the few things I remember was crawling out from under the flattened bike, looking at someone (white, male 40s in a suit) walking past and saying "please, call me an ambulance". He carried on his phone conversation and ignored me. A little old lady was the first person to come and help.

ugo.santalucia

mroli wrote:

I once had my foot run over on a motorbike by a large earth moving lorry. One of the few things I remember was crawling out from under the flattened bike, looking at someone (white, male 40s in a suit) walking past and saying "please, call me an ambulance". He carried on his phone conversation and ignored me. A little old lady was the first person to come and help.

Society is an invention... we are really large family animals, like our relatives urang and bonobos... outside the family there is no compassion... the old lady had probably been abandoned by her family and was probably looking for a new family...
Did you not watch "planet earth"?

drlodge

I think people confuse society for a bunch of humans who give a sh1t.

mroli

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Did you not watch "planet earth"?

Can't watch it. Nature is too brutal for me...

Gazzaputt

When I was knocked off my bike in 2008 in Plumstead High Street cars and a bus actually drove around me in the road and I'm sure one car drove over my bike.

People came out of the shops and stood gawping. Took 2 off duty nurses to stop after a minute or 2 and help.

elbowloh

Gazzaputt wrote:

When I was knocked off my bike in 2008 in Plumstead High Street cars and a bus actually drove around me in the road and I'm sure one car drove over my bike.

People came out of the shops and stood gawping. Took 2 off duty nurses to stop after a minute or 2 and help.

That's all well and good, but were the nurses hot?