Groupsets

Justlearning1965

Hi Guys, I'm new to road bikes . Looking to build or buy. The question i have is.
Is there a massive difference in ' shimano Sora' and 'shimano ultegra 6700'.
Maybe one has an extra gear but 18 for me will be fine anyway.
Is it all marking sh1te or is there some massive difference.
I'm not really a 'weight weenie'. So will the cheaper end groupset be ok for me.
Not looking at entering the tour or anything.
All the best

Bozman

A fair difference but if it was me and I was new to the game I'd get 105, I used that for years and it never let me down.
You can get a 105 groupset for about £300 from Merlin.

Colinthecop

I have a cheap specialized road bike and an expensive specialized mountain bike. The road bike runs sora and I cant remember what the MTB runs.... Anyways,

I find a big difference, the gear change of my MTB is so precise and immediate compared to the road bike.

I'm about to build a new bike on a half decent frame and the groupset is the one thing I wont be skimping on.

menthel

It all depends on your budget. If it runs to sora it's fine- I have it on my commuting bike because it is robust. It is not as smooth as the more expensive groupsets but the gears shift when I want them to!

Concentrate on getting a bike that fits you with the best quality frame for the type of riding you will do. The groupset for me is secondary to a well fitted, good quality frame.

Joeblack

menthel wrote:

It all depends on your budget. If it runs to sora it's fine- I have it on my commuting bike because it is robust. It is not as smooth as the more expensive groupsets but the gears shift when I want them to!

Concentrate on getting a bike that fits you with the best quality frame for the type of riding you will do. The groupset for me is secondary to a well fitted, good quality frame.

So the gears don't shift when you want them to on the more expensive group sets? Surely as this is the main function on a groupset (to change gears) we should all be running sora?

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

menthel

Joeblack wrote:

menthel wrote:

It all depends on your budget. If it runs to sora it's fine- I have it on my commuting bike because it is robust. It is not as smooth as the more expensive groupsets but the gears shift when I want them to!

Concentrate on getting a bike that fits you with the best quality frame for the type of riding you will do. The groupset for me is secondary to a well fitted, good quality frame.

So the gears don't shift when you want them to on the more expensive group sets? Surely as this is the main function on a groupset (to change gears) we should all be running sora?

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

Wrong end of the stick much? I said if sora is in your budget it works. Obviously the better groupsets will shift more smoothly but there is nothing inherently wrong with sora or Claris.

Next time read the response properly.

Spatulala

"I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version"

That kind of bs would annoy me too, if anyone had ever actually said it. Actually there is a very good reason to run 105 instead of Dura Ace. I've just bought a replacement chain and cassette for a shade over £30.

mfin

Spatulala wrote:

Actually there is a very good reason to run 105 instead of Dura Ace. I've just bought a replacement chain and cassette for a shade over £30.

But to counter that you can get a DuraAce chain and cassette for £140, and that's nothing.

cmhill79

You won't notice a great deal in performance by upgrading one level but Ultegra is 3 levels above Sora so yes you will notice a difference in performance. Gear changes will be smoother and quicker.

Comparing Sora and Ultegra is a bit like comparing a Ford and a BMW. Obviously the BMW is a better car but is probably costing twice as much.

Anonymous

Justlearning1965 wrote:

Hi Guys, I'm new to road bikes . Looking to build or buy. The question i have is.
Is there a massive difference in ' shimano Sora' and 'shimano ultegra 6700'.
Maybe one has an extra gear but 18 for me will be fine anyway.
Is it all marking sh1te or is there some massive difference.
I'm not really a 'weight weenie'. So will the cheaper end groupset be ok for me.
Not looking at entering the tour or anything.
All the best

Would not say its a 'massive difference' or 'marketing sh1te' but somewhere in between :roll:

18 gears and new Sora will be fine (if you do not mind the cables) but when you are no longer new to road bikes you might want an extra sprocket or two, clean bars, better shifting and a lighter bike (not necessarily just down to group set), so maybe not have a tone about your questioning that seems to be slagging off a lot of the people you are asking it of

As above I would get 105 anyway. It might be going cheap as new 105 is out soon/now.

Strith

Just set your budget first then go from there. Otherwise you'll be changing your mind constantly. There are good deals on Shimano at the moment.

curto80

Joeblack wrote:

menthel wrote:

It all depends on your budget. If it runs to sora it's fine- I have it on my commuting bike because it is robust. It is not as smooth as the more expensive groupsets but the gears shift when I want them to!

Concentrate on getting a bike that fits you with the best quality frame for the type of riding you will do. The groupset for me is secondary to a well fitted, good quality frame.

So the gears don't shift when you want them to on the more expensive group sets? Surely as this is the main function on a groupset (to change gears) we should all be running sora?

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

Oops, think you owe menthel an apology

curto80

I have Sora on my cross-bike and have been thinking about upgrading it because I have had Tiagra, 105 and ultegra on my other bikes at one time or another and for me the biggest increment in shifting performance is between sora and Tiagra. In my view Tiagra is the perfect entry point in terms of affordability relative to performance. Not everyone would agree with me but this is my personal experience with shimano groupsets.

Mikey23

@mfin... £140 is nothing?

laurentian

I had Sora on my (second hand) "first" bike. On first use, I was amazed at the difference in the smoothness and precision when compared to the racers with "bog standard" derailleur gears of my youth.

After a three years of riding, I saved up enough for a "better" bike. This had Ultegra on it and the difference between it and Sora was the same as that between Sora and my previous bikes. Smoother, slicker, more responsive to the change, better. I still have Sora on the "old" bike (Winter bike, wet bike, whatever) and still very much enjoy riding it. When you're pedalling there is not a lot of difference, its just that split second when changing that the difference is noticeable - a better groupset doesn't make pedalling any easier!. Sora is still a better groupset than I am a rider!

sloppyschleckonds

Mikey23 wrote:

@mfin... £140 is nothing?

A fool and his money!? Especially on consumables.

drlodge

I've used Shimano 8 speed Sora to Campag Super Record, and also SRAM. They all work, and if properly setup and maintained they all work well. Main things to consider are:
- feel of the brake lever hoods, higher spec groupsets may feel more comfortable. I prefer Campag in this regard...
- 10 vs 9 speed (or 11sp) etc. 10 speed is pretty much the "standard" and if you get a 9 speed group set it makes upgrading more difficult, not that you'd need to upgrade mind.

Initialised

Shifting got smoother and the bike feels more efficient after upgrading my rear derailer from Sora to 105.

Sora rim brakes have a deservedly poor reputation, but this down to the standard pads and is easily fixed with cartridge holders and decent brake pads.

Remember, bikes are modular, you can pick and mix components between groups so long as the cassette and shifters both have the right number of gears.

keef66

Spatulala wrote:

"I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version"

That kind of bs would annoy me too, if anyone had ever actually said it. Actually there is a very good reason to run 105 instead of Dura Ace. I've just bought a replacement chain and cassette for a shade over £30.

I'm currently shoppin for a replacement 105 chain and cassette. Where did you buy from and how much over £30 is a shade??

morstar

Joeblack wrote:

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

Actually, durability of high end componentry is less than the lower end, heavier weight componentry. The top end gear is manufactured to be as light as possible whilst providing excellent performance. Its durability is inherently compromised by trimming weight wherever possible. Not to the point where it is not sufficient to perform its required task but to a point where it is also expected that people will replace more frequently.

drlodge

morstar wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

Actually, durability of high end componentry is less than the lower end, heavier weight componentry. The top end gear is manufactured to be as light as possible whilst providing excellent performance. Its durability is inherently compromised by trimming weight wherever possible. Not to the point where it is not sufficient to perform its required task but to a point where it is also expected that people will replace more frequently.

Agreed, which is why you will often see a cheaper chain & cassette fitted with higher spec components elsewhere.

navrig2

To my mind the factors are:

Budget - If you can't afford more than Sora then you will have to buy Sora. If you can afford more then try to balance that against frame and other components. No point in running Dura Ace on a Halfords Carrera frame.

Usage - If you are a high mileage cyclist then the chances are you will want (need) a decent groupset for keeping the slicker gear changes but don't necessarily confuse higher end with longevity. As said above consider cheaper consumables.

Comfort - There is a difference between the shape and size of the hoods meaning some groupsets may be more comfortable.

As for:

Joeblack wrote:

So the gears don't shift when you want them to on the more expensive group sets? Surely as this is the main function on a groupset (to change gears) we should all be running sora?

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

The vast majority of amatuer riders are probably riding with groupsets which are beyond either the rider's ability or mileage. Sora is probably the right choice for them. All IMHO.

Perhaps "does a different job" would be a better choice of phrase rather than better.

mfin

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

@mfin... £140 is nothing?

A fool and his money!? Especially on consumables.

I didn't say I would buy it, just merely pointing out that £140 is not that much money really. Costs me £100 to fill the car up.

Greenbeetle

mfin wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

@mfin... £140 is nothing?

A fool and his money!? Especially on consumables.

I didn't say I would buy it, just merely pointing out that £140 is not that much money really. Costs me £100 to fill the car up.

Coo. I thought you were joking.

de_sisti

mfin wrote:

,,, just merely pointing out that £140 is not that much money really. Costs me £100 to fill the car up.

£140 is a lot of money if you need it, but haven't got it. :roll:

mfin

De Sisti wrote:

mfin wrote:

,,, just merely pointing out that £140 is not that much money really. Costs me £100 to fill the car up.

£140 is a lot of money if you need it, but haven't got it. :roll:

Well, you're not missing out on much if anything at all! ...and the Ultegra ones are so close at a third-ish of the street price, that's where the value for money really is I reckon.

Miles253

morstar wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

Actually, durability of high end componentry is less than the lower end, heavier weight componentry. The top end gear is manufactured to be as light as possible whilst providing excellent performance. Its durability is inherently compromised by trimming weight wherever possible. Not to the point where it is not sufficient to perform its required task but to a point where it is also expected that people will replace more frequently.

I've been under the impression weight savings are made between groups by choosing lighter materials and more complex machining. Otherwise your saying that Dura Ace should last less time than 105? Given the same care, I doubt that.

drlodge

It is true that high end groupsets will last a shorter time than their cheaper siblings, but its not the entire group set, in fact just the cassette. Lighter metals aren't as hard wearing. Everything else I think should last just as long if not longer due to better bearings (or bearings rather than bushes).

Joeblack

menthel wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

menthel wrote:

It all depends on your budget. If it runs to sora it's fine- I have it on my commuting bike because it is robust. It is not as smooth as the more expensive groupsets but the gears shift when I want them to!

Concentrate on getting a bike that fits you with the best quality frame for the type of riding you will do. The groupset for me is secondary to a well fitted, good quality frame.

So the gears don't shift when you want them to on the more expensive group sets? Surely as this is the main function on a groupset (to change gears) we should all be running sora?

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

Wrong end of the stick much? I said if sora is in your budget it works. Obviously the better groupsets will shift more smoothly but there is nothing inherently wrong with sora or Claris.

Next time read the response properly.

I did read it properly and you're still making the point that it shifts when you want it to,

So which groupsets don't shift when you want them to?

Weight and smooth shifting? Is that all we pay the extra for? Genuine question

menthel

Joeblack wrote:

menthel wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

menthel wrote:

It all depends on your budget. If it runs to sora it's fine- I have it on my commuting bike because it is robust. It is not as smooth as the more expensive groupsets but the gears shift when I want them to!

Concentrate on getting a bike that fits you with the best quality frame for the type of riding you will do. The groupset for me is secondary to a well fitted, good quality frame.

So the gears don't shift when you want them to on the more expensive group sets? Surely as this is the main function on a groupset (to change gears) we should all be running sora?

I'm sorry but it's this kind of bs that annoys me when it comes to biking, to suggest that a cheaper groupset actually does a better job than a more expensive well engineered version :roll:

Wrong end of the stick much? I said if sora is in your budget it works. Obviously the better groupsets will shift more smoothly but there is nothing inherently wrong with sora or Claris.

Next time read the response properly.

I did read it properly and you're still making the point that it shifts when you want it to,

So which groupsets don't shift when you want them to?

Weight and smooth shifting? Is that all we pay the extra for? Genuine question

The point I am making is that sora works (even despite your attempts to twist my words)- a lot of people will post saying "ooh, don't buy sora its terrible", its not as it works perfectly well. I am not disparaging the higher end groupsets as they will do the job better and lighter but sora does the job. I have it on my commuting bike because it just keeps on going, the 9 speed chain is probably more hard wearing than the thinner/lighter 10-11 speed versions and parts are cheap to replace when the crappy roads and weather of Londons grim streets get too much for them, not that I have had to replace anything yet after 2,500km.

But basically, what you pay for in higher spec groupsets are weight loss, smoother and easier shifting (sora can be a little "agricultural" at times!) and more cogs out back for smaller gaps between gears. They probably also look nicer! I know that my veloce equipped bike shifts more smoothly and looks quite a lot better than the sora setup but then it also suffers from having an italian temprement.

Its all a choice and quite frankly as recreational cyclists most of us would be fine with claris 8 speed but we do have a choice and can pay our money to get the level of performance that we want or suits our needs. I have sora because that was the lowest groupset that the genesis equillibrium comes with. I have veloce on my Condor because it was what I could afford at the time. My next "good" bike will probably have chorus on it because that it what I want and will be able to afford. My next commuting bike will probably be single speed, as I am not sure the streets of London require gears on the commute I have!

ongej

One big advantage I found with 105 above are the shifters (possibly Tiagra, but didn't try so don't know). I found it much easier to shift gears especially for the front chainring, but I have small-ish hands.