Help me stop loathing climbs.

ai_1

gazman428 wrote:

Yes I do have a HRM, I can hold my HR at 170 for aslong as I want, I can do bursts up to 180 but I then need to back off to recover. I have had it as high as 199 :shock: on a club chain gang but I blew up and could only maintain walking pace for about 10 mins afterwards.

When climbing my pace gets up to around 185 and I just tire. I will try pacing myself better and seeing how I go.
I will ride to work tomorrow and take the hilliest route I can find and report back.

Well there's your problem then!
You're going above your sustainable effort level on hills and blowing up before the top. If you know 170 is sustainable and you can only manage 180 in bursts then hitting 185 on anything but very small hills is a recipe for excessive pain and under-performance. You know what you can do so do it! Restrain yourself early on climbs so you don't exceed sustainable effort, say 170bpm and if you want you can accelerate to 180 or more as you approach the top and a rest.
It may be easier said than done but that's the solution.

My HR would be just a little lower than yours. I top out around 194 I think and I can maintain about 175 for 25-30mins or 165 for a few hours at a push. Not that I push that hard on most rides!!!
Anyway... I'll let my HR get up in the 180s on short climbs if I'm in the mood to attack them but for longer climbs that will take several minutes or more I doubt I average more than 175 and that's if I'm pushing.

gazman428

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

gazman428 wrote:

I can hold my HR at 170 for as long as I want

Really? If true and not a typo .. bloody youngster

a link to a quick spin I did a day or two back, not exactly flat out but my heart rate must average about 160.

http://www.strava.com/activities/140579006

but I think it's more down to lack of fitness!! My personal trainer a good few yrs ago was mortified to see me flat out on a treadmill with my heart rate at 210bpm! !!

.

ai_1

gazman428 wrote:

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

gazman428 wrote:

I can hold my HR at 170 for as long as I want

Really? If true and not a typo .. bloody youngster

a link to a quick spin I did a day or two back, not exactly flat out but my heart rate must average about 160.

http://www.strava.com/activities/140579006

but I think it's more down to lack of fitness!! My personal trainer a good few yrs ago was mortified to see me flat out on a treadmill with my heart rate at 210bpm! !!

.

What's wrong with a HR of 210?
It's pretty high but if your max HR is around there and you're going flat out why would anyone be mortified? It doesn't mean you're in either good or bad shape, just that your max HR is quite high and you're close to or at it.

Speckled

drlodge wrote:

Try lower gears..any hill is easy as long as you have a gear low enough. A 12-28 cassette should be cheap enough, quick to fit and help you out on the steeper sections.

What he said! I spent all last year on standard gearing in the peak district and it was a mare, lots of the climbs it was impossible to stay seated and having to stand all the time zapps your energy and just makes everything hard work. Since ive been using 52/36 with a 11-28 cassette climbs are a doddle now and i can stay seated on just about everything.

I have read a few times though people giving advice on climbing saying never to stand up, because it drains too much energy and its difficult to recover. Thats all very well, but when you do really have to stand, some of the 20% and above gradients, if you've no practice with standing you just arent gonna be able to do it, or at least not for very long anyway. I make sure that on some of rides where i could easily stay seated, i put it in a higher gear and stand all the way to keep those muscles trained

markhewitt1978

Speckled wrote:

I have read a few times though people giving advice on climbing saying never to stand up, because it drains too much energy and its difficult to recover. Thats all very well, but when you do really have to stand, some of the 20% and above gradients, if you've no practice with standing you just arent gonna be able to do it, or at least not for very long anyway. I make sure that on some of rides where i could easily stay seated, i put it in a higher gear and stand all the way to keep those muscles trained

For longer climbs with gradients <10% then that's about right, you just need to spin up. But much of the time I find it easier to stand for a short while, then sit, then stand again. But I do find when riding with friends, both of whom are taller than me if that matters, they seem to stand a lot on climbs, while I'm seated going at the same speed or faster.

drlodge

A lot of good advice here - I would emphasise the pace aspect

Gears help with pacing yourself, but on the shorter UK hills it can be easy to put out too much effort too soon, and not leave enough for the top when perhaps the hill gets even steeper. Pacing is a lesson I had to learn for long European hills where gradients are typically < 10% but go on for a long time.

A good practice I find is to change down earlier than you otherwise would so it feels as though you aren't trying hard enough. Then a little way into the hill you'll find yourself working harder to keep at the same pace but its at a sustainable level.

On harder climbs, standing then sitting is useful to exercise different muscle groups. It takes some practice, but then hill climbing takes a lot of practice anyway!

gazman428

You guys have hit the nail firmly on the head.
I've been out after work today and completed over 2000ft of climbing adjusting my pace to keep my heart rate around 170 and it worked wonders. I was slow, but I enjoyed it and never blew up on any of the climbs.

http://www.strava.com/activities/141472258

I still may lower the gearing as I was unable to keep my pace down and spin, I was more grinding up the hills and given I have bad knees it got a bit painful at times. I realised on one climb that I was climbing like I do on a mtb for once - my mtb buddies are not as fit as me so I ride at their pace which makes life easier for me!

Thankyou all for your advice.

Initialised

Well done!

Remember, it's just a hill, you'll get over it.

de_sisti

I realised I liked climbing (even though I'm rubbish) when I saw Sean Kelly ascending Alpe d'Huez (on TV) in the tour
some years ago (I think it was the year he finished 4th). He was in the green jersey at the time and he looked in all
sorts of bother. I felt really sorry for him at the time.

bushpixy

I use to hate hills, but the recent strava challenge has won me over. Now I go out looking for some decent climbs

I'm running 52/36 on the front with 12-28 on the rear. I started off hitting them in the big ring and just hoping I could power up them, but now I often drop into the little ring at the start and use the gears on the back. I have no problem going up in the granny ring nowadays keeping a constant speed/power output. Now I climb nice and steady barely out of breath unless it's a hill averaging double figures with parts >20% gradient.

no point in blowing up no the 1st climb when you're out to do a long ride.

Druidor

Hills are my bain. bit on the chunky side and it kills my knees (Both not good condition) I find standing hurts my legs within seconds so tend to stay seated unless its going really bad.. :? :?

Sad to say I had to get off on my last ride and finish the hilll as a pedestrian "Blowing Stone Hill" beat me this time

http://www.mapmyride.com/workout/571855547

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/51.58 ... m0!1m0!3e1

daxplusplus

gazman428 wrote:

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

gazman428 wrote:

I can hold my HR at 170 for as long as I want

Really? If true and not a typo .. bloody youngster

a link to a quick spin I did a day or two back, not exactly flat out but my heart rate must average about 160.

http://www.strava.com/activities/140579006

but I think it's more down to lack of fitness!! My personal trainer a good few yrs ago was mortified to see me flat out on a treadmill with my heart rate at 210bpm! !!

.

A few things:
- you are a youngster so your max HR is pretty high. As you get older your max HR will drop .. it's annoying but it's just what happens to your body (hence my bloody youngster comment - I'm jealous of your Max HR as my Max HR is way down @ approx 180).

- When I talk about a max HR I mean my actual maximum and not the biggest number I record on a typical fast ride. It's not easy to actually hit your max .. it's bloody horrible in fact. So your max HR my be even higher. (To give you an idea of how hard - I had to lay down by the side of the road .. either that or fall off my bike)

- The ride above may have an average of 160 but you said you could hold 170 for as long as you like. And on that ride there's a few issues (I'm not picking fault or anything - it's more about talking about the same things and your view is just as reasonable as mine but it helps that we are on the same page when discussing stuff).

-- It's not a long ride.
-- You spend the first 4 miles just warming up. So lose that from the analysis.
-- You then spend 8 miles at average/steady 180 .. this is more like it. But the distance is so short it's not really demonstrating that you could hold it for as long as you like. If it was 30 miles then OK maybe.
-- You then have a rest for a mile
-- You then do 3 miles at an average\steady 160 (that's a lot lower than 170) and probably shows that either your not trying hard enough or that your actually still tired from the previous effort.
-- You then spend the remaining few miles alternating between all out (ish) and resting.

Nothing wrong with that ride but it doesn't show you could hold 170 as long as you like. Again not having a go - just trying to help you look at the figures .. I'm still learning and by talking about it we all learn.

Oh the ride doesn't disprove that you can hold 170 as long as you like .. TBH it looks like you could hold 170 for a fair while.

Please take the above as it was intended and not how it may come across.

davep1

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Initially I found standing next to impossible, but as my fitness has improved then I don't mind it any more - at least it doesn't knacker me for the next 20 minutes like it used to!

It depends on the slope of the hill in general you should be aiming to be putting out the same power on the climb as you do on the flat but gearing means you'll be going slower.

This is the secret for me, I love being out of the saddle - dancing on the pedals either poised and relatively at the back of the bike or as far over the front axle as possible pounding maybe on the drops pushing for the summit . Used to do a lot of mtb and when I upgr out of the seat more.
aded from a Hard Rock to a Boardman I found it climbed more like a road bike I could stay

gazman428

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

gazman428 wrote:

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

gazman428 wrote:

I can hold my HR at 170 for as long as I want

Really? If true and not a typo .. bloody youngster

a link to a quick spin I did a day or two back, not exactly flat out but my heart rate must average about 160.

http://www.strava.com/activities/140579006

but I think it's more down to lack of fitness!! My personal trainer a good few yrs ago was mortified to see me flat out on a treadmill with my heart rate at 210bpm! !!

.

A few things:
- you are a youngster so your max HR is pretty high. As you get older your max HR will drop .. it's annoying but it's just what happens to your body (hence my bloody youngster comment - I'm jealous of your Max HR as my Max HR is way down @ approx 180).

- When I talk about a max HR I mean my actual maximum and not the biggest number I record on a typical fast ride. It's not easy to actually hit your max .. it's bloody horrible in fact. So your max HR my be even higher. (To give you an idea of how hard - I had to lay down by the side of the road .. either that or fall off my bike)

- The ride above may have an average of 160 but you said you could hold 170 for as long as you like. And on that ride there's a few issues (I'm not picking fault or anything - it's more about talking about the same things and your view is just as reasonable as mine but it helps that we are on the same page when discussing stuff).

-- It's not a long ride.
-- You spend the first 4 miles just warming up. So lose that from the analysis.
-- You then spend 8 miles at average/steady 180 .. this is more like it. But the distance is so short it's not really demonstrating that you could hold it for as long as you like. If it was 30 miles then OK maybe.
-- You then have a rest for a mile
-- You then do 3 miles at an average\steady 160 (that's a lot lower than 170) and probably shows that either your not trying hard enough or that your actually still tired from the previous effort.
-- You then spend the remaining few miles alternating between all out (ish) and resting.

Nothing wrong with that ride but it doesn't show you could hold 170 as long as you like. Again not having a go - just trying to help you look at the figures .. I'm still learning and by talking about it we all learn.

Oh the ride doesn't disprove that you can hold 170 as long as you like .. TBH it looks like you could hold 170 for a fair while.

Please take the above as it was intended and not how it may come across.

No offence taken. I was riding on my own to work and I find it hard to keep motivated.
My club runs see my heart rate at a steadier pace as I have no option but to keep up!

Looking back at some other rides though you are probably right and it is lower than I stated. I'm still getting used to analysing with strava as it is relatively new to me.

Thanks for your help.

ben-----

Wind (weather wind that is, blowing in opposite direction to my direction, obviously) is my bane. Obviously it slows you down, but it slows me down doubly as it were, because it annoys/frustrates me. And it just seems to have been pretty windy pretty much all year so far (except possibly just in the last few days). Its the prevailing, unrelenting nature of it. I'm in Suffolk. I suspect wind might be worse there; farmers like to remove anything that grows (eg hedges, trees), apart from corn. At least with climbs they're very visible/clear/obvious. Bloody wind.

florerider

Ah, you should try going from Rhyader to Aberaeron, lots of hills and a good headwind too!

Must admit, the wind was worse than the hills though