Shifters/derailleur compatibility

rubez

Are Shimano Atlus shifters compatible with an Alivio rear derailleur - and a Tourney front mech thing (?also called a derailleur)

Assumed so, but now not so sure...

Chunkers1980

Exact model numbers - or actual photos

rubez

Shimano Altus Left Hand 3 Speed Rapidfire Gear Shifter Lever Pod SLM310
Shimano Altus Right Hand 7 Speed Rapidfire Gear Shifter Lever SLM310

Shimano Alivio Mountain Bike Rear Derailleur Mech SILVER RD-M410SGSS

- and don't have a model # for the front derailleur, it's a Shimano Tourney and is a 3-speed.

cooldad

In this case, a simple yes.

rubez

Good, cause the derailleur has already shipped.

To fit it, I just take the bottom cog out it and tuck the chain behind it, and put the bolt back in, yes?

I know you can take the chain apart, but screw that.

drlodge

Get a quicklink for your chain, makes life a whole lot easier.

rubez

Always been wary about taking chains apart, probably unwarranted, but I remember taking derailleurs apart like this to get the chain through it many years ago.

Same should still apply. It's only taking one cog out. I regard taking the chain apart as more of a hassle, especially since it don't have the tool.

cooldad

The chain, assuming new, will probably need shortening anyway, and if old, will probably need replacing, and shortening.

Info probably on Parktools.

Chunkers1980

Rubez, that's utterly stupid, not that I'd expect less. You have a 3/4th hand tool but no chain tool. Tool.

rubez

The chain is the existing one, still new.

Don't see how it will need shortening/lengthening.

I noticed a screw on the derailleur that reins in slack/slackens the chain anyway...

Chunkers1980

Er no it doesn't.

Perhaps you should read Parktools.

rubez

Why would the chain length need to alter?

Nothing else did.

Chunkers1980

Why did you order a new new rear mech.

BigAl

rubez wrote:

Why would the chain length need to alter?

Err, because its too long

rubez wrote:

Nothing else did.

That's right everything else you've done has been pure plain sailing, without a hitch or a problem to be seen. You're bloody priceless you.

rubez

Cause that one was crap, and I didn't know if it was suitable for 7-speed, having changed from a 6-speed cassette.

Tourney is bottom of the barrel. Alivio was the best "7/8-speed" available. The better ones are all 9 and 10-speeds.


BigAl, how do you know the chain is too long?!

rubez

I'ma gone paste this here for future reference.

Install chain normally and shift to both largest cogs, Watch the derailer arm it shouldn't be completely straight. Switch to both smallest cogs it shouldn't sag.

Derailer shifts faster when it is closer to cogs. There is a screw on the back that raises or lowers whole mechanism. Switch to largest rear cog and adjust screw so that derailer wont bump into cogs or get too close.


For a "quickie" chain length test shift into the big/big combination. The derailleur cage should be pulled almost horizintal and have just a skosh of slack.

Chunkers1980

For who's reference? And where's that from?

drlodge

rubez wrote:

I'ma gone paste this here for future reference.

Install chain normally and shift to both largest cogs, Watch the derailer arm it shouldn't be completely straight. Switch to both smallest cogs it shouldn't sag.

Derailer shifts faster when it is closer to cogs. There is a screw on the back that raises or lowers whole mechanism. Switch to largest rear cog and adjust screw so that derailer wont bump into cogs or get too close.


For a "quickie" chain length test shift into the big/big combination. The derailleur cage should be pulled almost horizintal and have just a skosh of slack.

Most of that is not necessary, just fit the chain as long as possible and when on small-small the rear derailleur still has some tension in the chain.

I do agree with Rubez's question though as to why would the chain not be the right length if its just the derailleurs being changed? It might need to be altered if the rear derailleur's cage is a different size....may be.

cooldad

Chunkers1980 wrote:

For who's reference? And where's that from?

"Skosh"?
I think I can hazard a guess as to the fevered mind that though that up.

Chunkers1980

drlodge - your method does not stop the mech being ripped off.

And he has changed the cassette - therefore may have a bigger or smaller big spocket.

BigAl

rubez wrote:

BigAl, how do you know the chain is too long?!

I'm a Jedi Master and see things from afar. It's my gift

Or,

1. Chains, as sold, are almost always too long for an MTB – unless you have a mahoosive cassette
2. To shorten a chain, one must have a chain tool
3. You don’t have a chain tool

Ergo, your new chain will be too long

drlodge

Chunkers1980 wrote:

drlodge - your method does not stop the mech being ripped off.

How so? This is exactly how my super record Rourke bike is setup, since there is only one possible chain length using 34-54 and 12-29. Under what conditions might the mech get ripped off? To be clear, when I say some tension, I mean the lower part of the chain must be completely clear of the rear derailleur .

Top left photo below - I'd say the chain length is marginal, possibly still a smidge too long.



Unless it looks like this - its about as long as I'd go.

Chunkers1980 wrote:

And he has changed the cassette - therefore may have a bigger or smaller big spocket.

Mentioned on another thread?

rubez

T'aint a new chain though, jedi master.

I have pedalled it upside down with the new cassette, didn't seem to be a problem.

Will have to wait and see I suppose.

cooldad

drlodge wrote:

Mentioned on another thread?

You could say that. Forget the mech, big/big without the mech and a link or two, depending on suspension/chain growth. Obviously a hardtail will not have that.

felix.london

Get a chain splitting tool and a pack of quick links man! Probably under a tenner for both

1/ They will allow you to make your chain the correct length rather than just guessing

2/ At some point they will save you a very long walk home or back to the car

cooldad

This^^^^^^^^^^^

Although I normally use them on other peoples bikes who haven't sorted their chains properly.

rubez

felix.london wrote:

2/ At some point they will save you a very long walk home or back to the car

Some good old fashioned scaremongering. Am I to believe you ride around constantly with these vital emergency tools on your person?! In your bum-bag?

Also, you'd just coast home on your bike, wouldn't you. Much quicker...

Chunkers1980

Nope, not scaremongering. Common sense which is why you'll not do it.

It's not quicker to scoot. Just knock out the broken link with the tool and then pop in quick link.

drlodge

I carry a Topeak Rescue box, whic is a handy little container for patches and holding a spare quicklink. Plus I have a Topeak 20-multi tool which has a chaintool in it, but I really wonder if its up to the job of pushing out an 11sp link. Hopefully I won't have to find out.

Chunkers1980

Seriously, no one cares for your roadie shite. Toodle off back.

cooldad

rubez wrote:

felix.london wrote:

2/ At some point they will save you a very long walk home or back to the car

Some good old fashioned scaremongering. Am I to believe you ride around constantly with these vital emergency tools on your person?! In your bum-bag?

Also, you'd just coast home on your bike, wouldn't you. Much quicker...

Those and others. Like tools, tube, puncture kit, spare mech hanger, spare bit of chain, couple of quick links, cable ties, tyre boot etc.
In a Camelbak thing actually. Scooting isn't much fun on top of a mountain in Wales, in the rain (it is always raining in Wales) ten miles away from the car.
I also keep a full tool kit, box of spares and a few tyres in my boot.

Weird or what?