Training and recovery advice please

964cup

[Apologies in advance for the long post; I'm trying to anticipate the questions]

I did the FT Sportive today - 166k, 2000m of climbing - conditions weren't brilliant (strong headwind and cold temps, bit of drizzle) and I couldn't find a group going at the right speed, so I did it solo. Excuses out of the way first, then.

Thing is, I started well enough, pushing hard into the wind, but hit max HR way early and basically blew up after 30k. The remaining 136k was an exercise in survival cycling, trying to keep my HR in the endurance zone, and finding that every so often I'd just completely run out of legs. If I soft-pedalled for a bit, or dropped my climb speed down to walking pace, I could come back again up to a point, but I never felt properly on top of the gear, whether climbing or on the flat. This isn't the first time I've come to a ride and found I left my legs at home, but I can't work out what causes it.

The eventual outcome was 6:39 of riding time, average 25k; total time 7:00. I went into it expecting to get under 6hr, which I've done before on 100-milers.

I was refuelling properly (porridge and energy bar to start, gel every 40 mins, flapjack+banana+haribos at 85k, and (I think) drinking enough for the cold conditions (and allowing for the fact that the gels are SIS Isogels, so water-heavy). I just had no sodding legs.

I do about 250-270k per week, made up of 100k of commuting (2x10k each day with about 200m of climbing, mostly on the return leg) plus a mid-week 2-hour Hertfordshire spin - 50k, 600m climbing, 30k average; a Friday morning hill repeat session (10xSwains Lane for those who know it, about 28k, 870m climbing, 20k average including the descents); and a Sunday club run in Herts again (75-ish K, 600-odd metres, 30k average). About one week in two I also do a Saturday run around Regents Park (45k (6 laps plus there and back), 250m climbing, 30k average); I skipped both Wednesday and Saturday sessions this week in anticipation of the sportive (but did the Friday climbing session).

I'm 45, 183cm, 79kg. I eat well and don't drink alcohol (perhaps that's the problem). I have well-medicated chronic asthma, but don't perceive this as a breathing problem. I don't sleep brilliantly.

Suggestions on a postcard, please. I wonder if I'm overtraining - or at least not building in enough recovery time - but plenty of other people seem to do more mileage without intermittently ceasing to function. I'm fairly new to cycling (started seriously November 2012) and didn't take a great deal of exercise before then (I've lost 16kg since starting cycling properly), so all advice will be welcomed.

daxplusplus

The best analogy I've heard is the concept of lighting matches - every time you push hard on a ride then you use a match. For any given ride you only have a set number of matches. Sounds like you used all yours early on?

daxplusplus

As for over doing the training - my impression is that it's all very individual. Your training in the run up to this may have been fine for other riders but too much for you. TBH your probably best placed to know that because it depends on so many things.

Curious but what made you think you'd get under 6hrs? Have you done this route before?

964cup

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

As for over doing the training - my impression is that it's all very individual. Your training in the run up to this may have been fine for other riders but too much for you. TBH your probably best placed to know that because it depends on so many things.

Curious but what made you think you'd get under 6hrs? Have you done this route before?

I did 5:22 total time (5:16 moving time, 31.2km/h) on the RideLondon last year (similar route, albeit less climbing and perfect weather, plus big groups and closed roads, but still...). I did the FT ride last year too, but took a wrong turn and ended up doing 177k (repeating Biggin Hill) - it was my first sportive, so I made lots of mistakes - including stopping too often for too long, and eating too much at the stops, and still managed 7:05 moving time, riding solo (8h41 total, but lots of long stops, as I said). I also did London-Cambridge-London last year in 7:29 moving time, and that's 200k (but not solo - working together with a mate).

So my plan for this year was not to stop at all (I had enough gels and fluid for the whole thing in these conditions), so looking to take an hour off my moving time. That's still only a 27.6km/h average, so hardly Earth-shattering, I thought. Instead I *had* to stop at 85k - I was close to falling off - and I just had nothing in the tank.

The weird thing is that it was like having some kind of power limit - I could keep going, although it wasn't fun, but just couldn't put the hammer down at all.

hypster

You say you were consuming a gel every 40 minutes but that doesn't sound like nearly enough to me. There is usually about 20g of carbohydrate in those gels so in theory you would need three an hour roughly to be adequately fuelled assuming you are not taking anything else.

Solid food takes longer to digest than liquid so theoretically you should have the flapjacks etc. earlier in the ride and use the gels later on. Typically on a century ride I would be looking to consume 60g of carbohydrate per hour and I mostly use energy drink supplemented by home made rice cakes in the first half of the ride to achieve this.

daxplusplus

Hmmm OK sounds like you do have a history of comparable rides then.

I wouldn't underestimate the power sapping effects of a head wind (there was a thread in these parts earlier in the year along those lines) but maybe you did over do it on the run up.

Perhaps treat this as a learning exercise in how your body handles cumulative training fatigue and look to taper better\more conservatively next time? If I was you that's what I would consider. For instance, were there any hints in the days and weeks before hand that this was likely to happen? Do you think some of the sessions you did were too hard? That your body was still fatigued from them?

BrandonA

I'd be interested in knowing your experience of riding longer distances in conditions similar to today.

I don't think you probably ate enough but it sounds like to were knackered quite early so I don't think food would the only factor - I'd have expected that later on in the ride when you had consumed more than you'd taken in that day.

I didn't cycle very far today but where I was the wind was brutal and it sapped all my energy and I hated the last eight miles which were all into a strong headwind. The route I did today should have taken a lot less time and effort but conditions affected me.

Are you on strava? If so what times did other people post for the ride? If everyone was slow then this would explain a lot.

The good news is for finished.

964cup

hypster wrote:

You say you were consuming a gel every 40 minutes but that doesn't sound like nearly enough to me. There is usually about 20g of carbohydrate in those gels so in theory you would need three an hour roughly to be adequately fuelled assuming you are not taking anything else.

Solid food takes longer to digest than liquid so theoretically you should have the flapjacks etc. earlier in the ride and use the gels later on. Typically on a century ride I would be looking to consume 60g of carbohydrate per hour and I mostly use energy drink supplemented by home made rice cakes in the first half of the ride to achieve this.

I also has SIS energy source in my water bottles (although I wasn't drinking as much as I expected, which might have been another mistake). You may be right about the carbs, but I think I blew up too early for that to be the main factor - I won't have burned through my glycogen reserves, never mind the morning porridge and energy bar, in 30k.

964cup

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

Hmmm OK sounds like you do have a history of comparable rides then.

I wouldn't underestimate the power sapping effects of a head wind (there was a thread in these parts earlier in the year along those lines) but maybe you did over do it on the run up.

Perhaps treat this as a learning exercise in how your body handles cumulative training fatigue and look to taper better\more conservatively next time? If I was you that's what I would consider. For instance, were there any hints in the days and weeks before hand that this was likely to happen? Do you think some of the sessions you did were too hard? That your body was still fatigued from them?

I think this is probably the most likely thing. I remember reading Chris Boardman somewhere saying that his career was harmed by his slow recovery; not that I'm comparing myself to him in any other way, but perhaps I need more than a day to recover between hard rides. Certainly I think I was tired from the outset today, but it's hard to tell given the strength of the headwind, which was a big contributory factor in the level of effort early on.

964cup

BrandonA wrote:

I'd be interested in knowing your experience of riding longer distances in conditions similar to today.

Normally I'd say I'm stronger than this. I'm not the world's greatest climber (power to weight ratio too low) but I can sustain decent power on the flat. You may be right about the wind, but other people finished faster.

Are you on strava? If so what times did other people post for the ride? If everyone was slow then this would explain a lot.

I am on Strava; a clubmate, who did it in a group of 4, finished with 6:21 moving time, 6:30 elapsed. He and I are normally on a level. Of course I don't know how significant the group effect was for him, but I do know how knackered I felt. I'd say sub-6 in these conditions would probably have been beyond me even if I wasn't impaired, but I should have been able to match him.

daxplusplus

I'm 46 and for sure it takes me more than a day to recover from a hard ride*.

I commute most days and I can fit maybe two hard days in a week max. Any more than that and I have to take days off from commuting (and I'm an expert at recovery rides on my commute but there does come a point where your kidding yourself if you think your doing a recovery ride).

Also have to take days off if the accumulated mileage is higher than normal (regardless of whether or not the rides are hard).

Basically you just have to keep monitoring what your body is saying to you. Sometimes it lies so keeping records can help. But on some ride outs you just don't know which way your body is going to respond .. in those cases you just have to see how things pan out and take it as it comes (it's no big problem .. you can't be 100% all the time).

Obviously if you at all worried this might happen on a priority ride then you just try to be more cautious in the immediate run up\tapering.

My 2 cents.

* TBH at my age a hard ride is by definition a ride that takes me at least a day to recover from, anything that doesn't require a day off is not a hard ride. Maybe if I'd been into cycling when I was younger then that definition wouldn't stand up but it bloody well does these days :-)

hdow

Methinks you said it early in your initial post:

"Thing is, I started well enough, pushing hard into the wind, but hit max HR way early and basically blew up after 30k. The remaining 136k was an exercise in survival cycling, trying to keep my HR in the endurance zone, and finding that every so often I'd just completely run out of legs"

Pacing is so important on such long rides & so easy to get wrong in the excitement of the ride. Over 6 hours you shouldn't get anywhere near your max HR and should be working in your endurance/aerobic zone except for some of the steeper climbs where you do have to burn those matches. You don't get many matches but specific training (hard hills - Swains Lane) can get you more. Consistent effort throughout is the way to go

Me also thinks that because you went off hard no amount of nutritional changes would have made any difference. That is if any change were needed as you've successfully completed many equivalent rides at other times

With a headwind you lose twice what you gain with the same tailwind. Also the loss is exponential. Riding in a group is so much easier than solo. That's why road races develop pelotons

If you've been doing the same volume & quality of training for a few months without injury, illness or staleness then it's unlikely that you are overtrained. Maybe 5x Swains Lane in the ride lead up would have allowed a bit more taper but kept you on your toes

You are doing so much that is right. Put this down to experience and plan your pacing for next time

HarryD

964cup

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

Basically you just have to keep monitoring what your body is saying to you. Sometimes it lies so keeping records can help. But on some ride outs you just don't know which way your body is going to respond .. in those cases you just have to see how things pan out and take it as it comes (it's no big problem .. you can't be 100% all the time).

All good advice, and thank you, but the quoted paragraph is exactly the problem. I cycled in this morning assuming I'd be completely broken and have to take it easy, but my legs were fine - all the power I was missing yesterday. This is the bit I struggle with - being able to predict how I'll perform. I'm sure there were lots of other factors - and I probably shouldn't be as disappointed as I am - but I'd like to get more consistency in performance.