xc rider to dh??? how hard is the transition

jon1993

I have ridden xc black for many years now doing ok in some races coming 4th out of 60 ect. I have won a competition for gt factory racing experience at anthur stignog yet I've never truly done dh. I have done fort william on my Scott spark 30 very slowly but how do the skills needed to ride fast in xc really transfer to dh? I've never been on a Dh bike although it seems like I'm going to get a rather fast introduction to the sport! Does anyone have any advice for me?

rockmonkeysc

If you can ride black trails fast on an xc bike it's a lot easier on a dh bike!
It's not a difficult transition. Hire a Trek Session at Bike Park Wales for a day to see how you get on.

schmako

Yep, I find I can ride any (steep) downhill quicker on the dh bike than the xc one, better geometry, tires and suspension for the job.

Harder work on uphills (obviously) and flat sections (have to pedal like fark).

I've done the Fort Bill dh on both bikes, never doing it on the xc bike again thats for sure, even the gondola red was brutal on the xc bike compared to the dh bike!

jon1993

I think im more worried about the pedal situation more than anything else i have used SPDs for about 10 years now and havent used flats in all that time so going back to flats im going to assume i have developed some bad habits. I tried a scott 150mm travel thing at a demo day for 10 mins and that felt like a relatively tough DH section on my xc bike feel like i was gliding down a road. Is there anything to avoid doing as i know it will be alot quicker than xc DH i have my final exam for my degree a few hours after so if i crash im stuffed but i cant pass up the oppertuinty of a lifetime.

rockmonkeysc

You can always use SPD's for downhill. I only use flats on mine if conditions are really muddy.
A proper downhill bike takes a bit of getting used to, the steering takes a forceful approach and the suspension soaks up more than you would expect, including the kick from jumps, you need to boost most jumps. Line choices will be different on a downhill bike just because features you want to avoid on an xc bike you can just plough through and not notice them.
The speeds can be a bit intimidating to start with!

supersonic

It's about balls too. Been doing 30 foot doubles and 15 foot drops on the black runs ;-).

jon1993

Its not a balls issue for me if anything im worried about getting too carried away enjoying myself and trying things i have nowhere near the ability to do.

As for the jumps do you mean you have to push off them alot harder?

Thanks!

supersonic

Just that things are a LOT bigger on proper DH runs. Commitment.

rockmonkeysc

The jumps are big. 30 foot gaps are common and take all or nothing commitment but very little technique.
You need to boost take offs on dh bikes to make the suspension work for you rather than against you. You need to compress the bike in to the take off and release so that the suspension rebounds as you leave the lip. Also, when you're in the air that long, finding a nice level balance is very important.
There are still a lot of tracks without huge gaps but they make up for it by being steep and gnarly.
You can just build up to the hard stuff, the bike will get you out of a lot of trouble as long as it's well set up.

jon1993

Well I am sure this will be fun regardless I just hope I don't crash too badly XD

rockmonkeysc

It's fine, the spectacular crashes never hurt too badly. Its the minor crashes that break bones!

jon1993

Rockmonkey that's very true lol. If im a large on an xc bike am I right in assuming I will need a large DH bike?

supersonic

Maybe ;-). Try some out. Sizing varies hugely.

jairaj

Never go full tilt into a track you don't know. Always take it easy on the first run never mind how easy the section might seem at the time, as you don't know what's round the corner. Use that first run as sighter and then get progressively faster for each run.

welshkev

I ride using SPD's at antur.

the blues and reds are all rollable. even the black has nothing too taxing except 1 bit with big rocky steps which with commitment is ok too.

supersonic

Some bits you have no choice but to hit full commitment. Sure, scope them first. But most of my crashes have been when my contracting scrotum has applied the brakes.

cooldad

supersonic wrote:

Some bits you have no choice but to hit full commitment. Sure, scope them first. But most of my crashes have been when my contracting scrotum has applied the brakes.

The mental picture has scarred me for life.

rockmonkeysc

Commitment is often one of the most important things in downhill. A lot of crashes are caused by braking at the wrong time or too little speed to carry you through really rough stuff. Gap jumps are 90% commitment and 10% technique, go in to one with less than total commitment and you're not going to clear it.
Downhill bikes do a lot of work for you, rocks or roots etc which you want to avoid on an xc bike you might not even notice on a downhill bike.
Getting out racing will teach you a lot, I learnt quite a lot doing the 661 winter mini downhill series.

supersonic

A lot of crashes are caused by braking at the wrong time or too little speed to carry you through really rough stuff.

Absolutely. This is why my DH days are over! Nt that they really started, but I don't have the guts for the big stuff.

rockmonkeysc

To be honest the big, bike park style jumps are technically quite easy but the speed you hit them at is ridiculous, crashes at those speeds can be very nasty. I know of jumps where I have to be sprinting flat out in my tallest gear (38-11) and still boost the take off to clear them.
Fortunately there are still plenty of old style tracks around, especially down here in Somerset and Devon. There's quite a few in mid/south wales as well.

supersonic

Loads here too, rocky, rooty and twisty DH stuff, old NEMBA tracks at Wharny and the like. Don't get the chance to sprint it's short, but intense.

jon1993

Thanks alot for the help guys! If I was to buy a downhill bike do you know what sort of facilities there are around Hull, East Yorkshire area in terms of DH? Or is it the case where im going to have to travel to wales or scotland for that sort of thing? I cant seem to find a great deal on the downhill side and dont really know where too look. Thanks again

jon1993

Also at anthur stignog is there any progression into the full commitment stuff i.e. flat landings and not rock garden jumps just so i know i have the balence in the air part first as with xc im sure your well aware the most air i ever get is about 3/4ft lol

supersonic

Facilities? Push the bike up, and ride down ;-)

jon1993

can you slow down at all and just ride them through (not as fun I know) but there needs to be a point where I have to say its not worth it since I have my main exam for my degree only a few hours after.

BigAl

jon1993 wrote:

can you slow down at all and just ride them through (not as fun I know) but there needs to be a point where I have to say its not worth it since I have my main exam for my degree only a few hours after.

I've never ridden a 'DH' run ever. But if you have to ask the question above then I'd say don't even start the run.

DH needs commitment more than anything.

jon1993

I did Fort William slowly on my spark 30 limited by blowing the bike to pieces so I am going to assume it can be done slowly at first on a DH bike and just keep getting quicker and quicker through the day jumping further and over bigger features.

welshkev

antur has blue rigtht up to black trails. there's a few bits that can catch you out on the reds, but the blues are all rollable.

this is a blue DH track mind you, completely different to a blue xc trail. as we found out yesterday when a friend of a friend was airlifted to hospital :shock:

rockmonkeysc

A lot of features on DH tracks are easier at speed and off the brakes. The suspension works better off the brakes, the tyres have more grip to use and the speed will carry you through.
There are beginners tracks which don't require the same level of commitment, Forest of Dean trails are all pretty easy, Bike Park Wales red trails are fairly steady and Antur Stiniog reds are ok. I would avoid blue trails (even at Antur and BPW), they aren't really downhill tracks, more like all mountain trails.
It's best to get started somewhere you can push up and spend time sessioning technical sections with more experienced riders who can give tips

jairaj

jon1993 wrote:

Also at anthur stignog is there any progression into the full commitment stuff

There are blue, red and black graded trails. Start at blue and work your way up.

Not been to Anthur before but other DH places I've been to follow the same template; the blues and reds will usually have chicken lines on the harder stuff or the obstacles will be roll-able. Usually the black graded trails have little or no chicken lines and you have to commit.

rockmonkeysc

Most black trails will have "alternative" lines around the big stuff. All tracks used for racing have to have a rollable line, it may not be obvious but it will be there. It's usually the black trails that will be used for races.
The only official trail I know of with sections that cannot be rolled is Egypt at Gawton and that's graded double black and built by crazed psychopaths who escaped from Dartmoor Prison.






I might have made up the bit about psychopaths but it's probably close to the truth.