Deciding my new build...

rolf_f

EKE_38BPM wrote:

As for going around the world using Campag, as TGOTB mentioned, perhaps Campag components are less likely to break and need repairing. But if they did need repairing, you would have to find a bike shop with Campag tools, which I'm sure would be harder to find than a bike shop which has Shimano tools, or "bike tools" as they are generally known.

If I was going round the world on a bike I'd use one with down tube shifters and not have to worry at all about anything needing fixing or replacing!

Apple - control freak organisation. If Apple made cars the car would choose which way you went to the shops, what petrol stations you used and probably where you lived. You'd have to use a particular brand of petrol and the filler neck would be a funny shape so you didn't have the choice anyway and if it broke down (which it would, a week after the warranty expired) you'd need to replace the whole engine at 95% of the price of a whole new car. The car would, however, look lovely!

roger_merriman

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I've never ridden a bike with Campag so I don't know what all the fuss is about.
I wonder if they are like Apple products (over-priced, over-rated and very well marketed).

The prices are hard to compare because really there are only two Campag groupsets - Veloce and Chorus and the remainder are largely bling related upgrades (ie they look the same, function the same but weigh a few grams less - it's not like Shimano where they make everything progressively uglier the less you are prepared to pay!).

It functions just as well as Shimano but has the benefit (at least with Chorus and above) of being realistically repairable which is worth a lot IMO.

As for marketing - I don't think Campagnolo can be accused of great marketing!

Besides, what really kills your argument is that I like Campagnolo but I hate Apple!

I should have left out the marketing thing, really. Campag seem to go the Technics 1200 route of marketing and let word of mouth do the work (Technics never advertised the iconic 1200 deck).

I'm with you on the hating Apple thing. I've gone from pestering my Dad to buy me an iMac (the original Blueberry one) to turning away from everything starting with an 'i'. I don't even watch ITV anymore!!*
MrsEKE was an iPhone user and has recently got a Windows phone but now if an iPhone user sends her a text it goes to the iPhone but if a non-stupid phone user sends her a text it goes to the new Windows Phone. There are loads of webpages dedicated to how to sort it out, but you really shouldn't have to sort anything out. Its like a punishment from Apple for leaving the fold.

As for going around the world using Campag, as TGOTB mentioned, perhaps Campag components are less likely to break and need repairing. But if they did need repairing, you would have to find a bike shop with Campag tools, which I'm sure would be harder to find than a bike shop which has Shimano tools, or "bike tools" as they are generally known.

I'm not anti-Campag, I'm anti-hype.

*Apparently, Apple wanted to buy the URL itv.com but ITV refused to sell it to them, so they had to name their media server "Apple TV" rather than their first choice "iTV".

Sounds like iMessage is still active on the older iPhone turn it off under settings/messages and sent iMessages should default to a text messages and arrive at the new phone.

Campag's image is rather wrapped in history and road racing. Shimano oddly enough is older and was making free wheels etc long before them.

rolf_f

roger merriman wrote:

Campag's image is rather wrapped in history and road racing. Shimano oddly enough is older and was making free wheels etc long before them.

This is true - but Campagnolo were far ahead of Shimano with the derailleur. Shimano spent 35 years just making the freewheels before they got on to anything else! And Shimano was way behind Suntour with the freewheels. Shimano started in 1921 - Suntour was making freewheels in 1912.

davis

Rolf F wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I've never ridden a bike with Campag so I don't know what all the fuss is about.
I wonder if they are like Apple products (over-priced, over-rated and very well marketed).

The prices are hard to compare because really there are only two Campag groupsets - Veloce and Chorus and the remainder are largely bling related upgrades (ie they look the same, function the same but weigh a few grams less - it's not like Shimano where they make everything progressively uglier the less you are prepared to pay!).

It functions just as well as Shimano but has the benefit (at least with Chorus and above) of being realistically repairable which is worth a lot IMO.

As for marketing - I don't think Campagnolo can be accused of great marketing!

Besides, what really kills your argument is that I like Campagnolo but I hate Apple!

Seriously, how fixable is Campag? I'm happy taking stuff to pieces to see what's gone wrong, but I loathe having to buy special tools to do so (hell I've got drawerfuls of "security" bits, spudgers, etc), and that's always annoyed me about Campag.

rolf_f

davis wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I've never ridden a bike with Campag so I don't know what all the fuss is about.
I wonder if they are like Apple products (over-priced, over-rated and very well marketed).

The prices are hard to compare because really there are only two Campag groupsets - Veloce and Chorus and the remainder are largely bling related upgrades (ie they look the same, function the same but weigh a few grams less - it's not like Shimano where they make everything progressively uglier the less you are prepared to pay!).

It functions just as well as Shimano but has the benefit (at least with Chorus and above) of being realistically repairable which is worth a lot IMO.

As for marketing - I don't think Campagnolo can be accused of great marketing!

Besides, what really kills your argument is that I like Campagnolo but I hate Apple!

Seriously, how fixable is Campag? I'm happy taking stuff to pieces to see what's gone wrong, but I loathe having to buy special tools to do so (hell I've got drawerfuls of "security" bits, spudgers, etc), and that's always annoyed me about Campag.

The Ultrashift levers are entirely repairable (I think without any special tools aside from patience!) - and they can be stripped and cleaned for an economically viable price. Not sure how practical the mechs are to fix. The BB is really no more than bearings in cups and they are easily changed in Ultratorque format - albeit with tools! The tools are no bother though if you stick with what you've got.

dhope

Rolf F wrote:

The tools are no bother though if you stick with what you've got.

Never has Campag sounded more like Apple

rubertoe

You want this

end off.

london-red

Maybe on the Genesis...

asprilla

rubertoe wrote:

You want this

end off.

What sort of bizarre bike needs all those shifters and brake levers?

I'm not sure I'd like to ride that.

rolf_f

dhope wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

The tools are no bother though if you stick with what you've got.

Never has Campag sounded more like Apple

Oooh! Explain - I don't get this! Surely Apple is all "You don't need tools because your isomething will break in 13 months by which time we'll have rolled out something basically identical but with a 1mm bigger screen which you will absolutely be gagging to buy anyway because you know that that mm will change your life"!!

Asprilla wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

You want this

end off.

What sort of bizarre bike needs all those shifters and brake levers?

I'm not sure I'd like to ride that.

What's wrong with 7 shifters on one bike? Of course, you can make a photo of a Campag groupset looking just like this - only it won't have those hideous and enormous STi shifters in it!

pblakeney

rubertoe wrote:

You want this

end off.

No. What he wants is this:-

Unfortunately 2011 but the only one in alloy with Ultratorque and Ultrashift.

Edit:- I have to take that back. It would be ideal on a quality steel frame but there is no need for alloy on a carbon frame. Go full carbon of your choice.

Anonymous

Ultimate Frankenbike?

I have that groupset (Mix of Ultegra and DA + L-R's Tiagra shifter) and I have to say I am not a fan of the octalink BB. I know it lasts forever, but removal and replacing of cranks is a PITA as it's hard to get them tight enough to not creak, but not strip the threads on the cranks.

rubertoe

Granted that centaur groupo is nice.

I am looking at getting a Roberts hand built. that centaur would look great on it.

tgotb

Asprilla wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

You want this

end off.

What sort of bizarre bike needs all those shifters and brake levers?

I'm not sure I'd like to ride that.

It's a groupset for a TT tandem. Pilot uses aero bars, hence the bar end shifters, but he also needs to be able to shift when on the drops (downhill for instance). Stoker has the option of downtube/drops. Ditto the brake levers; down a really steep hill it might take both riders to apply enough braking force...

Pig to get all the cable lengths right with a configuration like this, though.

rolf_f

TGOTB wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

You want this

end off.

What sort of bizarre bike needs all those shifters and brake levers?

I'm not sure I'd like to ride that.

It's a groupset for a TT tandem. Pilot uses aero bars, hence the bar end shifters, but he also needs to be able to shift when on the drops (downhill for instance). Stoker has the option of downtube/drops. Ditto the brake levers; down a really steep hill it might take both riders to apply enough braking force...

Pig to get all the cable lengths right with a configuration like this, though.

Where does the fifth brake lever go?!

dhope

Rolf F wrote:

dhope wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

The tools are no bother though if you stick with what you've got.

Never has Campag sounded more like Apple

Oooh! Explain - I don't get this! Surely Apple is all "You don't need tools because your isomething will break in 13 months by which time we'll have rolled out something basically identical but with a 1mm bigger screen which you will absolutely be gagging to buy anyway because you know that that mm will change your life"!!

Apple is fine as long as everything else you have is Apple.

The build quality has always been second to none. They don't go breaking randomly. Plenty of other gripes about Apple, but robustness isn't one.

Anyway, back to the iBottecchia

tgotb

Rolf F wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

You want this

end off.

What sort of bizarre bike needs all those shifters and brake levers?

I'm not sure I'd like to ride that.

It's a groupset for a TT tandem. Pilot uses aero bars, hence the bar end shifters, but he also needs to be able to shift when on the drops (downhill for instance). Stoker has the option of downtube/drops. Ditto the brake levers; down a really steep hill it might take both riders to apply enough braking force...

Pig to get all the cable lengths right with a configuration like this, though.

Where does the fifth brake lever go?!

Attached to stoker's saddle (you need a special adaptor). Applies brake automatically whenever he clenches his a*se...

rubertoe

Well what we appear to have learned is that Shimano make complete groupsets. Campagnolo dont.

MonkeyMonster

rubertoe wrote:

Well what we appear to have learned is that Shimano make complete groupsets. Campagnolo dont.

and that red made his heart make a head based decision to justify what it wanted all along...

tgotb

MonkeyMonster wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

Well what we appear to have learned is that Shimano make complete groupsets. Campagnolo dont.

and that red made his heart make a head based decision to justify what it wanted all along...

and that the best place to launch an attack on him will be at the bottom of a hill...

london-red

TGOTB wrote:

MonkeyMonster wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

Well what we appear to have learned is that Shimano make complete groupsets. Campagnolo dont.

and that red made his heart make a head based decision to justify what it wanted all along...

and that the best place to launch an attack on him will be at the bottom of a hill...

Thumbs to shift up, right?

tgotb

London-Red wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

MonkeyMonster wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

Well what we appear to have learned is that Shimano make complete groupsets. Campagnolo dont.

and that red made his heart make a head based decision to justify what it wanted all along...

and that the best place to launch an attack on him will be at the bottom of a hill...

Thumbs to shift up, right?

I honestly can't remember, but there certainly used to be a Shimano groupset which had exactly the same thumb shifters, but they shifted in the opposite direction!

rubertoe

TGOTB wrote:

London-Red wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

MonkeyMonster wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

Well what we appear to have learned is that Shimano make complete groupsets. Campagnolo dont.

and that red made his heart make a head based decision to justify what it wanted all along...

and that the best place to launch an attack on him will be at the bottom of a hill...

Thumbs to shift up, right?

I honestly can't remember, but there certainly used to be a Shimano groupset which had exactly the same thumb shifters, but they shifted in the opposite direction!

The old Sora used to have thumb shifters before they went all flappy.

Monkeypump

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Technics never advertised the iconic 1200 deck

Really?



Back on topic, get the shiny shiny DA groupset. The cost of tools alone makes the Campag stuff silly.

pblakeney

^^^^^^

I would say that takes me back.
But I currently have one sitting in my rack that I have had for 30 years.

rolf_f

Monkeypump wrote:

Back on topic, get the shiny shiny DA groupset. The cost of tools alone makes the Campag stuff silly.

What tools would those be? For putting together UT, you need a BB cup tool. Which I think is the same as the Shimano one! (edit - oh, and a big long allen key which is slightly irritating but I'm fairly sure you can get for less than I paid for the official one - less than a tenner. A bit more than the special tool for that annoying little flower shaped plastic plug thing in the Shimano BB)

(yes - to change the BB bearings you need a puller and a drift and that costs about £50 unless you bodge but ,if you think that is silly money and then go on to buy DA/Record, you have clearly long lost your grip on reality!).

You need to get your PK sorted

rower63

I now run only Campag, have done all my own fettling for years, and have only two Campag-specific tools, the spline-nut for undoing the cassette lock-nut, less than £10, and a BB-cup spanner, prob £15 from Park or suchlike. The rest are generic tools that any bike DIY-er will have and can be used on pretty much any bike.
The generic tools include a chain-splitter, a heavy-duty one I've used on Shimano and Campag chains with no problems for years. Also a generic bearing-puller for removing the UT bearings, and a generic bearing-installation set.

edit:

Rolf F wrote:

... BB cup tool. Which I think is the same as the Shimano one!

I think you're right, mine I've had for years and used it on Shimano too!
So that's only one Campag-specific tool

bigmat

rower63 wrote:

The generic tools include a chain-splitter, a heavy-duty one I've used on Shimano and Campag chains with no problems for years. Also a generic bearing-puller for removing the UT bearings, and a generic bearing-installation set.

Do you have a link to the type of generic bearing puller you use? Been looking at what is available, there are a couple that look like they might do but don't want to end up buying something that doesn't quite work.

Monkeypump

Rolf F wrote:

(yes - to change the BB bearings you need a puller and a drift and that costs about £50 unless you bodge but ,if you think that is silly money and then go on to buy DA/Record, you have clearly long lost your grip on reality!).

You need to get your PK sorted

Okay, perhaps the sun went to my head. :?

I'm also going on old advice (which seems to be echoed elsewhere on this thread). I was told by my lbs a few years back that a lot of the Campag stuff had specific tools, not universal to other brands, that were expensive. It put me off back then, and since then I've heard plenty to back this up. Maybe it's all BS, so if there was an 'eating my hat' smily perhaps it belongs here.

WRT the DA stuff, this particular magpie is more attracted to DA (and XTR) than other stuff because it was always out reach as a kid. Ignore me though, it's Friday...

rower63

BigMat wrote:

rower63 wrote:

The generic tools include a chain-splitter, a heavy-duty one I've used on Shimano and Campag chains with no problems for years. Also a generic bearing-puller for removing the UT bearings, and a generic bearing-installation set.

Do you have a link to the type of generic bearing puller you use? Been looking at what is available, there are a couple that look like they might do but don't want to end up buying something that doesn't quite work.

Can't remember what it is, I bought it in-shop at a pro motor-factor shop somewhere near Wembley if I recall. I used to have the Park Campag one, but destroyed it trying to get my first (bike-shop-fitted) UT bearing off - I pushed the threaded bolt through the reaction plate and mostly stripped its thread at the same time in the unsuccessful attempt. Useless, far too flimsy. The thing to be careful of when getting yours is to ensure the leg-end-hooks that slip under the bearing to pull it out are sharp enough to get under the bearing in the first place. I took a semi-axle with me when I bought it to be sure.