Upgrading 8 speed 2300 to 10 speed - Where do I start ??

Tjgoodhew
Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
edited May 2014 in Road general
My OH is doing the London Triathlon in August and I wanted to upgrade her bike from its stock 2300 8 speed to maybe Tiagra or 105 10 speed. I rode it briefly yesterday and I couldn't believe how clunky it felt compared to my Tiagra. The front shifting was awful

The bike in question is a Marin Ravenna - http://www.cyclesuk.com/49510/products/ ... -bike.aspx

It currently has a triple but as we live in Essex she hardly uses the small cog so wants to move to a compact double. This will also be easier for me to look after going forward

I am just after some advice and opinions on the best way to do this. I want to try and do it myself even though i am a complete novice. The plan was to try and pick up a full groupset and change everything which i think is pretty much my only option. Is it best to buy new or pick up something second hand ? Has anyone seen any good deals out there that they can point me too ??

The bottom bracket compatibility worries me so if anyone can hep here that would be great.

I also need a bit of advice on tools. I have the usual toolbox with wrench, spanners, etc.. as well as a chain whip and I know I will need tools for the BB and the chain. Anything else ??
Cannondale Caad8
Canyon Aeroad 8.0

http://www.strava.com/athletes/goodhewt
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Comments

  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    You can get a full Tiagra 4600 at Ribble for £240 which includes everything, even brakes.
  • PerformingMonkey
    PerformingMonkey Posts: 218
    Or full 105 for £299 at Merlin or Ribble.

    I recently carried out a similiar upgrade (viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12959215 viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12961464) and I am still impressed by the new groupset.

    I would recommend checking BB compatibility and also that your rear wheel is 10 speed compatible.

    Toolswise, I was recommended the Jobsworth Kits from Planet X and I will pass on that recommendation, did the job excellently.
  • Tjgoodhew
    Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
    PerformingMonkey wrote:
    Or full 105 for £299 at Merlin or Ribble.

    I recently carried out a similiar upgrade (viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12959215 viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12961464) and I am still impressed by the new groupset.

    I would recommend checking BB compatibility and also that your rear wheel is 10 speed compatible.

    Toolswise, I was recommended the Jobsworth Kits from Planet X and I will pass on that recommendation, did the job excellently.

    Similar to yourself i wouldnt consider myself a total novice and i know roughly how its all put together. How did you actually find it all ?

    I didnt think about the real wheel. Altho i do have a spare wheel that is 10 speed so not the end of the world if the stock wheel isnt 10 speed

    I am just about to order that toolset. Looks great for the price !!
    Cannondale Caad8
    Canyon Aeroad 8.0

    http://www.strava.com/athletes/goodhewt
  • PerformingMonkey
    PerformingMonkey Posts: 218
    I considered it a really good learning experience. Hardest part for me was removing the old BB without damaging the threads. My neighbour would say that the cable routing in the levers could be simpler.

    The 105 groupset from Ribble came well packed with instructions included with each component.

    I plan to use the old groupset on a Winter bike,
  • NewTTer
    NewTTer Posts: 463
    Where in Essex are you, happy to help out if you get stuck. Probably just aswell to buy a new groupset if funds allow. dont forget new bar tape, as the old will get ruined taking it off to change the STI's. Realistically this is just over an hours work to swap out the old and put on a new. Get a HT2 BB
  • Tjgoodhew
    Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
    NewTTer wrote:
    Where in Essex are you, happy to help out if you get stuck. Probably just aswell to buy a new groupset if funds allow. dont forget new bar tape, as the old will get ruined taking it off to change the STI's. Realistically this is just over an hours work to swap out the old and put on a new. Get a HT2 BB

    Im Leigh-On-Sea. Thanks for the offer - might have to take you up on that if i get stuck :)

    So if i get the full group from Ribble is the BB that comes with that compatible with the Marin ?
    Cannondale Caad8
    Canyon Aeroad 8.0

    http://www.strava.com/athletes/goodhewt
  • arthur_scrimshaw
    arthur_scrimshaw Posts: 2,596
    NewTTer wrote:
    Where in Essex are you, happy to help out if you get stuck. Probably just aswell to buy a new groupset if funds allow. dont forget new bar tape, as the old will get ruined taking it off to change the STI's. Realistically this is just over an hours work to swap out the old and put on a new. Get a HT2 BB

    Bloody hell! It took me almost that long just to put new bar tape on!

    I swapped my Daughters Allez from 2300 to 105, took me best part of a day, I'd never earn a living at being a bike mechanic :oops:
  • debeli
    debeli Posts: 583
    Taking the Marin shown on the link from an 8-speed running off a triple chainring to a 10-speed with a compact double will be:

    1. Expensive and fairly tricky for the benefit derived.
    2. Of limited benefit.

    Many of us who have pedalled our way over the years through five, six, seven, eight-speed cassettes and on into double figures have marvelled at the ingenuity but felt relatively little real-world benefit from each technological increment.

    The woman in question would almost certainly be just as fast on the bike as it is (but in excellent condition) as she would on the desired upgraded bike, also in excellent condition.

    If it's just a smaller outside sprocket or a shorter low gear she wants, then there are gazillions of 8-speed combinations available that would simply fit on in place of the existing one.

    My advice would be to get the tyres up to a good pressure, give the bike a good service and replace any service items (cables, tyres, brakes, chain) that are showing signs of going west. And leave it at that. A freshly serviced bike feels just like a new one and often goes like one too.

    You CAN make the change you describe, but whether it makes sense for the marginal gains is questionable. Happily, it is your bicycle and your decision so you can ignore me. But I would not do as you plan to do.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Normally I would agree that a bike designed with 2300 isn't upgrading. But; I would say that £240 for a Tiagra groupset plus a toolset which can be kept for other purposes isn't bad in the scheme of things, and gives the OP a good little project to learn about bike maintenance.
  • Tjgoodhew
    Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
    This may be more relevant for the workshop thread but one of the things that made we want to change it over for her was how bad I found the front shifting. The bike is nearly new and has recently been into the LBS for its 100 mile service.

    Rear shifting is fine but the front is awful. Its a lottery to if it will actually shift. It just doesnt seem to work smoothly regardless of what you do to it. She is relatively new to road bikes and she is just sitting on the middle ring as she doesnt want to try and shift the front. Its been back to the LBS a number of times and they seem to think its fine.

    There may be an inherent problem however i have never had any issues like this with my Tiagra compact and am comfortable making minor adjustments once its set initally. It shifts perfectly near enough everytime.

    The 2300 with a triple just seems like a combo that doesnt really work and i would rather just avoid the headache and try to make it so the OH is confident with her gear changes which i know i can achieve with the same set up as mine
    Cannondale Caad8
    Canyon Aeroad 8.0

    http://www.strava.com/athletes/goodhewt
  • zx6man
    zx6man Posts: 1,092
    A friend of mine has a mens marin (2013 model but not sure of the name), has a 2300 triple and its fine. Mine is a 2300 shifter and mech on a compact and doesn't feel much different.

    when I first started, mine went way off, and tracked it to the cable jumping the guide under the BB. Spent hours trying to get it adjusted...
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    You also have the advantage of getting rid of the dreaded button shifters.
  • zx6man
    zx6man Posts: 1,092
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    You also have the advantage of getting rid of the dreaded button shifters.

    I like mine, gives my thumbs something to do :-)
  • jameses
    jameses Posts: 653
    I agree about the front shifting with a 2300 triple, it can be pretty bad. I upgraded mine (apart from the chainset/bb) to a bit of a mish-mash of 9 speed ultegra, 105 and tiagra components and it is a lot nicer to use. Didn't make me any faster, though!

    It was all quite straighforward to do, even though I knew very little about maintenance at the time. ust take your time with it and use the Park Tools website for tutorials.

    A basic 'Bike Hand' tool kit (£30 at the time) was all that was needed, aside from a decent pair of cable cutters - don't scrimp on these, cheap ones won't cut through butter. A bike mainenance stand would have made the job easier, but I managed without.

    Given it's only covered 150 miles or so, selling the old groupset on ebay might get you enough for your tools!
  • jameses
    jameses Posts: 653
    Oh, and the wheel should be okay. I think most Shimano type freehubs are okay for 8, 9 and 10 speed cassettes.
  • JayKosta
    JayKosta Posts: 635
    If the bike is new, and bought from the LBS - they should be the ones to fix the front shifting!
    First thing is to get them to actually test ride the bike in an area where you can watch and have them do front shifting. If for whatever reason they can't fix the shifting, then request that it be changed to a 'working compact double' - at no cost.

    Doing a major swap of components can lead to lots of expense, time, and frustration getting everything to work properly.

    Remember, if YOU start tinkering with it - then it becomes YOUR responsibility.

    Jay Kosta
    Endwell NY USA
  • NewTTer
    NewTTer Posts: 463
    Tjgoodhew wrote:
    NewTTer wrote:
    Where in Essex are you, happy to help out if you get stuck. Probably just aswell to buy a new groupset if funds allow. dont forget new bar tape, as the old will get ruined taking it off to change the STI's. Realistically this is just over an hours work to swap out the old and put on a new. Get a HT2 BB

    Im Leigh-On-Sea. Thanks for the offer - might have to take you up on that if i get stuck :)

    So if i get the full group from Ribble is the BB that comes with that compatible with the Marin ?
    I am leigh on sea too, shout up if you get stuck
  • frazered
    frazered Posts: 333
    Got 2300 on the triban 3 here. Front shifting is pretty good, not as slick as my 6800 ultegra but the difference is not light years different. 105 will be a nice upgrade to the bike for sure.

    Make sure you confirm the bb you need before ordering.
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Been using my 2300 equipped defy 4 for the last couple of days as my 105 bike is being serviced. Am always quite surprised how much I like it... Have had this front derailleur problem myself, it does seem to go out of synch quite a lot and require fairly regular readjustment. I'm on a compact here...
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    I've upgraded a Sora equipped bike to 105 and will hopefully be doing my own Allez from 2300 to 105 soon.

    Why? A few reasons - I HATE the thumb shifters ... I can get the same spread of gears with closer ratios and I can then swap wheels between bikes on the fly - very useful in case of punctures or something else wrong with the back wheel...

    Is it worth it? Well - £300 for a full groupset may well be more than the resell value of the bike as it stands now - financially it's probably not worth it, but if it's a nice bike that is comfortable to ride and you're having issues with the current setup that you cannot resolve or just want to treat the OH to an upgrade then why not.

    I'm not sure the benefit of doing it to correct front shifting for a triathlon though - I TT on my Allez with 2300 - front is generally left in the big ring from start to finish - it's just the rear that I really want to replace.

    HT2 BB should be compatible with a new crankset too - although if you don't have the tool to remove the current BB and don't have another bike with that type of BB then it's probably more cost effective to get the LBS to remove the BB or borrow the tool from someone else.
  • gazeds
    gazeds Posts: 182
    NewTTer wrote:
    Where in Essex are you, happy to help out if you get stuck. Probably just aswell to buy a new groupset if funds allow. dont forget new bar tape, as the old will get ruined taking it off to change the STI's. Realistically this is just over an hours work to swap out the old and put on a new. Get a HT2 BB
    THAT'S PRETTY AMAZING. Took me best part of a day
  • NewTTer
    NewTTer Posts: 463
    gazeds wrote:
    NewTTer wrote:
    Where in Essex are you, happy to help out if you get stuck. Probably just aswell to buy a new groupset if funds allow. dont forget new bar tape, as the old will get ruined taking it off to change the STI's. Realistically this is just over an hours work to swap out the old and put on a new. Get a HT2 BB
    THAT'S PRETTY AMAZING. Took me best part of a day

    If you have all the tools already (which I do), then it is really straight forward, the most time consuming part (for me) is re wrapping the bars. I could say it is PRETTY AMAZING that it took you so long to carry out a straight forward task, remember we all have differing levels of acumen when it somes to somes types of task, really isnt any need for veiled sarcasm, I am only offering to help the guy out if he needs it, wish I hadnt of bothered!
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    NewTTer wrote:
    gazeds wrote:
    NewTTer wrote:
    Where in Essex are you, happy to help out if you get stuck. Probably just aswell to buy a new groupset if funds allow. dont forget new bar tape, as the old will get ruined taking it off to change the STI's. Realistically this is just over an hours work to swap out the old and put on a new. Get a HT2 BB
    THAT'S PRETTY AMAZING. Took me best part of a day

    If you have all the tools already (which I do), then it is really straight forward, the most time consuming part (for me) is re wrapping the bars. I could say it is PRETTY AMAZING that it took you so long to carry out a straight forward task, remember we all have differing levels of acumen when it somes to somes types of task, really isnt any need for veiled sarcasm, I am only offering to help the guy out if he needs it, wish I hadnt of bothered!

    I suppose it depends if you include setup, clean & clear down time in that ... plus time for coffee or going to find a slightly different tool ...

    I did this task in January, I bought Ultegra levers for my bike, swapped out the crankset and levers and put the old levers, crankset & new bits of kit on my wifes bike. It took 3-4hours in total ... however, whilst the bike was stripped of the crankset I took the opportunity to thoroughly clean and protect the frame around that area. Plus, at the time I didn't have a workstand, so that makes it a little more tricky.
    I could do the job far more quickly now - having done it once and now having a workstand too.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    For me every bit of bike maintenance I've ever done (or feels like it) I've come unstuck because I haven't got the right tool. So what should be a 20 minute job often turns into several days.
  • Tjgoodhew
    Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
    A week or so back it took me over an hour to replace brake pads :shock:

    For this job I think its sensible for me to rule out a whole day and even them im thinking i still might need some assistance.

    Its when things need fine tuning i struggle - hence why the adjusting the callipers for new pads was such a struggle !!!
    Cannondale Caad8
    Canyon Aeroad 8.0

    http://www.strava.com/athletes/goodhewt
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    My problem is that I have such limited time for bike stuff in general. If something needs doing it basically has to be done at before or after a ride. After I'm far too tired and just want to rest. Before a ride is better but then I get frustrated that I'm fiddling with the bike and wasting riding time.
  • gazeds
    gazeds Posts: 182
    NewTTer wrote:
    gazeds wrote:
    NewTTer wrote:
    Where in Essex are you, happy to help out if you get stuck. Probably just aswell to buy a new groupset if funds allow. dont forget new bar tape, as the old will get ruined taking it off to change the STI's. Realistically this is just over an hours work to swap out the old and put on a new. Get a HT2 BB
    THAT'S PRETTY AMAZING. Took me best part of a day

    If you have all the tools already (which I do), then it is really straight forward, the most time consuming part (for me) is re wrapping the bars. I could say it is PRETTY AMAZING that it took you so long to carry out a straight forward task, remember we all have differing levels of acumen when it somes to somes types of task, really isnt any need for veiled sarcasm, I am only offering to help the guy out if he needs it, wish I hadnt of bothered!
    Sorry if I offended you, it was in no way meant as sarcasm.
  • chrisgal
    chrisgal Posts: 130
    I wouldn't worry about it I don't think anyone else took it as sarcasm apart from the poster.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Because it is pretty amazing, just over an hour to change an entire groupset is the speed you would expect from a pro mechanic with all the exact tools just to hand.
  • NewTTer
    NewTTer Posts: 463
    chrisgal wrote:
    I wouldn't worry about it I don't think anyone else took it as sarcasm apart from the poster.
    Not really your place to comment is it

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