Switch sides with V-brakes

Mad_Malx

I'm really confused now. I'm not talking about which brake to use; I just happen to think that, on V or calipers, it looks nicer if the right lever goes to the rear brake and the left to the front.

njee20

drlodge wrote:

The one odd thing I noticed is that the brake pads on my Condor needed replacing, and the rear pads were worn quite a bit more than the front. Presumably due to my right hand working harder (ooh err).

Don't be daft, the brakes are doing entirely different things and most people use the back brake far more than the front - generally dragging it, so the pad wear will always be different.

gt-arrowhead

njee20 wrote:

drlodge wrote:

The one odd thing I noticed is that the brake pads on my Condor needed replacing, and the rear pads were worn quite a bit more than the front. Presumably due to my right hand working harder (ooh err).

Don't be daft, the brakes are doing entirely different things and most people use the back brake far more than the front - generally dragging it, so the pad wear will always be different.

I agree with njee20. It has nothing to do with how hard your hand is working on the lever. I have always had greater wear on the rear brake on both disc and v brakes. I think it might be down to the fact that you are not often looking for a quick and sudden stop, in which case you would definitely bias the braking to be using the front brake.

Ofcourse front braking produces a better braking force, but in situations where you are cornering / leaning you dont want to be using too much front brake incase you lock the front wheel. Especially on loose ground. So you use the rear brake to slow you down but still maintain control over the bike. And you are more often in situations that i described above where you drag the rear brake, and less often in situations where you are braking really hard (using more front brake than rear).

On my commuter though, you can clearly see the wear difference between the rear v brake pads and the front v brake pads. And my rear pads are visibly much "dirtier" than my front ones. My rear pads have loads of that grey residue you get when braking in the wet with v brakes, whereas my front ones are alot cleaner. This is probably down to the dragging that i do on the rear brake.

larkim

I may be wrong here, but I believe that as I have grown up from a kid liking to slide my back wheel at any opportunity (and from bitter experience as a much younger child on front only braked bikes, flipping over the bars), I have now moved to using the front as my primary brake in all circumstances, perhaps with the exception of in particularly slippy situations where I fear the front will lock easily and "understeer" (in car terms).

If you've ever tried left foot braking in a car, you'll realise how quickly you have trained your normal right foot to be sensitive to the powerful braking effect of front brakes (left foot braking at first mainly ends up with you headbutting the steering wheel as you lack the finesse to progressively input small amounts of braking force).

The same applies to moving towards front wheel braking on a bike - at first it feels unnatural, but once you get used to it (and particularly with a suspension wheel offering superior braking grip as weight transfer movers forwards) it becomes the natural braking option. Back it up with light rear braking too by all means, but I would reckon that my front pads would wear faster than my rear by a significant amount.

njee20

but I would reckon that my front pads would wear faster than my rear by a significant amount.

Why do you need to reckon? Have you never changed pads?

It's not the power, but the way folk tend to use the brakes. Most folk do a lot of 'comfort braking' with the rear, so they're using it more, and wearing the pads. The front get used more sparingly, the power is a red herring.

larkim

njee20 wrote:

but I would reckon that my front pads would wear faster than my rear by a significant amount.

Why do you need to reckon? Have you never changed pads?

It's not the power, but the way folk tend to use the brakes. Most folk do a lot of 'comfort braking' with the rear, so they're using it more, and wearing the pads. The front get used more sparingly, the power is a red herring.

Poor choice of words. My fronts do wear faster than my rears by a significant amount on both road and MTB.

larkim

njee20 wrote:

It's not the power, but the way folk tend to use the brakes. Most folk do a lot of 'comfort braking' with the rear, so they're using it more, and wearing the pads. The front get used more sparingly, the power is a red herring.

My point was, though, that as I got older and wiser I realised that rear braking was inherently less effective due to weight transfer, so whilst of course the braking impact of losing momentum of going from speed X to speed Y is the same whether you use front or rear braking (as both brakes are identically sized, unlike in a car), you get more control over the braking wheel if you choose the front as the effect of braking is to place more load on the wheel being retarded, not less.

Sheldon says it more effectively than I can however!

http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

Matt

njee20

Yes, which is why you don't need to brake as much with your front brake for the same retarding effect, that's common sense.

With discs incidentally brakes often aren't the same size.

However, as I say, what most people will do (whether consciously or not) is drag their back brake, and use the front when they want to make a more marked deceleration. It's this which wears the pads. You're unusual in wearing fronts more.

larkim

Do "most people" do this? Or is it just most "casual" cyclists? Surely all MTB enthusiasts, for whom the activity is their chosen hobby, use their front as the dominant brake (and I'd therefore presume wear their front pads faster than their rears?)

njee20

IME (from working in an LBS for years), you presume wrong.

Twelly

Im sorry but regardless of which brake is which lever, under normal circumstances I squeeze the levers the same amount and move my weight on the bike to balance the grip front and rear. You should not be grabbing a handful of front and lightly dusting the rear and the opposite is also bad technique. You can brake much faster and with less sliding if you use both brakes equally and progressively.

njee20

Bollocks, they do different things, and indescriminantly using both together really is bad technique! That's why you have two levers...

gt-arrowhead

I dont see how using both brakes equally will slow you down better.

For hard braking, you brake more on the front, as the weight transfers to the front. And because the weight transfers to the front you dont use as much rear brake, as it is not as effective.

Twelly

Nope, both my brakes do the same - slow me down. What do yours do?

GT - you are right, when you brake hard, weight transfers forward, giving you more grip on the front and less on the back. If you are glued to your saddle, then yes, you will have to ease off the back brake to stop a skid. If you move your weight back over the rear wheel (further back the harder you brake) you can keep braking harder with both levers. I have two brakes on my bike. Using them both slows me down quicker than using one.

larkim

njee20 wrote:

IME (from working in an LBS for years), you presume wrong.

Fair enough, you have shed loads more experience than I do!

njee20

I have two brakes on my bike. Using them both slows me down quicker than using one.

That's not what you said before, subtly different. You said:

You can brake much faster and with less sliding if you use both brakes equally

You're saying you just use both brakes together. Again, why have two separate levers? Surely it would be much easier to just have one lever in that instance? What do you do if one wheel breaks away? Let go of both brakes an equal amount?

How many vehicles have a 50:50 brake bias?

Chunkers1980

Not many.

njee20

Exactly.

Twelly

How many vehicles can you redistribute 90% of the total weight instantly and to wherever you want on the chassis?

Chunkers1980

90% is a bit finger to the wind, but not many. Doesn't mean you pull each level the same regardless of situation and sort it out by weight distribution.

njee20

How many vehicles can you redistribute 90% of the total weight instantly and to wherever you want on the chassis?

You can redistribute 100% of the total weight instantly - that's what a stoppie is. Are you still using the rear brake that point? Doesn't mean that's the most efficient way to stop.

And can I just say... motorbikes.

Chunkers1980

Don't mention motorbikes. lol

pesky_jones

Surely the determining factor for having two seperate brakes is for control, not slowing.

Sometimes you don't want to stop soon, you just want to stop in control. If there was only one lever, this wouldnt be possible.

cooldad

Whilst I am normally pedantic, I think he meant at the same time, not equal force.

Which I agree with.

Twelly

njee20 wrote:

How many vehicles can you redistribute 90% of the total weight instantly and to wherever you want on the chassis?

You can redistribute 100% of the total weight instantly - that's what a stoppie is. Are you still using the rear brake that point? Doesn't mean that's the most efficient way to stop.

And can I just say... motorbikes.

Not quite sure what you are trying to say there.

The riders weight on a MTB has a huge influence on its behaviour. Motorbikes are more like 60/40 (approximately to all the pedants out there!) bike/rider and you dont have anywhere near the range of movement you have on a mountain bike. Now shush before Kowalski shows up...

This is how I have been taught to brake, moving around the bike to get maximum grip and stability. In fact braking/turning/obstacles/rough terrain all much easier, faster and controlled if you can stand up and move to the far corners of the bike. Try it. Stick your weight as far back as possible and then squeeze the brakes simultaneously and progressively. If you lose grip at the front - weight forward. If you lose grip at the back - weight back. Its amazing how well you can scrub off speed without skidding/crashing/soiling yourself.

Regardless of the comments here, forgive me if I trust the advice of the guy who coached me who could ride better and faster than me or anyone I have ever ridden with and probably better and faster than the majority on this forum.

Twelly

cooldad wrote:

Whilst I am normally pedantic, I think he meant at the same time, not equal force.

Which I agree with.

Nope. Thanks for trying to back me up but im afraid I did mean equal force. Obviously there are situations when you would use either front or back on their own, like seeing who can stay sideways the longest on a grassy slope, or popping onto the front wheel and spinning the bike around to impress your lil buddies. But I stand by using both brakes equally and moving your weight around the bike to manage grip.

What happens if a wheel breaks away? you shouldn't really be braking during a corner if you can help it but.. if you are positioned properly it will slide for a brief moment and find grip again, which should be controllable if your weight is over the top of the bike.

If anyone disagrees, thats fine. Whatever works for you and lets you enjoy riding. Im really not fussed.

njee20

I think he meant at the same time, not equal force.

No, the bit I took issue with was:

Im sorry but regardless of which brake is which lever, under normal circumstances I squeeze the levers the same amount

Ie apply both brakes in exactly the same way. Obviously you need to use them in conjunction for maximum efficiency, but not just indiscriminately squeeze both together.

This is how I have been taught to brake, moving around the bike to get maximum grip and stability.

Again, that's bloody obvious, but that doesn't go hand in hand with using both brakes the same way. Obviously you move around the bike rather than just sitting on it, even on the road you need to do that.

cooldad

My bad. I retract my previous statement and replace it with 'Huh?'

njee20

I do think you've misunderstood the tuition you've had.

Chunkers1980

Skill is feeling where the grip is