Riding two abreast - Legailty and Morality

StillGoing

2 abreast out on a nice rural B road at the weekend when a group of motorcyclists approach from the back. Nearly all try to get as close as they can with no oncoming traffic. Last of the group gives the w4nker gesture with his hand as they disappear into the village. As we enter the village where there is a sharp left hand bend as the road suddenly goes up, we see said motorcyclists pushing one of their groups bikes to the side of the road the rider clearly having come to some misfortune. Oh how we laughed.

CXrider

philthy3 wrote:

2 abreast out on a nice rural B road at the weekend when a group of motorcyclists approach from the back. Nearly all try to get as close as they can with no oncoming traffic. Last of the group gives the w4nker gesture with his hand as they disappear into the village. As we enter the village where there is a sharp left hand bend as the road suddenly goes up, we see said motorcyclists pushing one of their groups bikes to the side of the road the rider clearly having come to some misfortune. Oh how we laughed.

Justice is served.

CXrider

http://ukcyclelaws.blogspot.co.uk/p/the ... -code.html

Still getting drivers bashing their horn on wide, long roads with excellent visibility.

Mind you, I have noticed that there are two different types of horn now.

1. A firm and loud "Get out of the f'in way you bike riding tw@ts - you shouldn't be riding two abreast on the road" horn

2. A softer, politer "just to warn you that I am here" horn

:}

bendertherobot

It's an interesting one.

This is the photo that goes with the explanation to "give as much room as you would a car."


The suggestion appears, on the face of it, to say "imagine that the cyclist IS a car." On the face of it.

But closer examination shows that the Audi has not crossed carriageways completely, if a car was there it would be hitting it. So, a helpful but confusing picture.

To my mind the 2 abreast, pull in where it narrows rule is equally confusing and in conflict with the above. Most country roads where problems occur are very narrow and, if the above rule were to be followed, you could never safely overtake at all unless the cyclist pulled over.

I did that on Thursday evening, the car behind was there for about 1/2 mile. So I slowed, gestured and pulled into the "gutter" where there was a slight widening.

The car passes without acknowledging my kindness then turns left across me.

owenlars

I wonder whether we should compare this thread with other BR threads complaining about dozy pedestrians walking two or three abreast on shared cycle paths such as Bristol/Bath. We do, as cyclists, quite often seem to be very good at double standards. My two pennorth, for what it is worth, is that a bit of consideration from everyone goes a long way.

bendertherobot

owenlars wrote:

I wonder whether we should compare this thread with other BR threads complaining about dozy pedestrians walking two or three abreast on shared cycle paths such as Bristol/Bath. We do, as cyclists, quite often seem to be very good at double standards. My two pennorth, for what it is worth, is that a bit of consideration from everyone goes a long way.

Possibly. Though there is some difference. On a path, I use the Taff Trail every day, you can always safely overtake as long as the pedestrians aren't occupying the entire width. Whereas on a single carriageway you can't, arguably, safely overtake even if the cyclists are in single file. In fact, as often stated, it can be worse that way.

CXrider

Fair point, though on those paths with BOTH a cycle and walkers sign on them, clearly meant for both, the keen ramblers get mightily pissed off at cyclists as if they are the only ones with the right to use it.

A bell and a shout and a politel 'good morning' or 'hello' or 'thanks' is always the right thing to do.
I now wave and greet practically every person I come across now and always wave to a car that has been behind for a bit.

So, yes, if we were ALL courteous then the world would indeed be a safer and nicer place.

markhewitt1978

Yet I've had situations where I've approached someone slowly and said "Good Morning" and they've shouted at me for not ringing a bell!

Mikey23

I often get snarky comments on trails about not having a bell...

I usually tell them that at my age my ding a ling doesnt work any more

CXrider

Mikey23 wrote:

I often get snarky comments on trails about not having a bell...

I usually tell them that at my age my ding a ling doesnt work any more

ha, I am bloody tempted to get an air horn and scare the bejeezuz out of them!

I have a bell on my Boardman Team CX but not on the racer as thats only for roads. A bell is a must really for tow paths, canal paths, gravel paths, trails, etc.

CXrider

I was going up a ramp type climb of umpteen per cent with my sister and her partner, all struggling, rocking up the hill at perhaps 5MPH max when a female driver in a large SUV bibbed us from only yards back (its difficult to hear a modern car moving slowly when you are panting).
Being slightly ahead and missing a call for 'car back' I was fine but I looked back and the bib was so aggressive my sister had wobbled and fell off into the side bushes. The car moved on without a wave.. to some shouting by us.
OK, our group were two abreast on a very quiet steep side-road where you wouldn't expect a car to be and the lack of realisation of a car behind us was our fault at the end of the day but the proximity of the car could have caused a serious accident. We take some of the guilt for this, of course, it was one of those things as you have to concentrate , daren't look back and are deafened by the road, breathing and heart beat.

rickeverett

Two fellas two abreast down a narrow lane the other day. Me coming the other way, there was obviously limited passing space.... They didn't bother to move so i swerved out into rider 2s path and put my elbow out. Sorry but I've had enough...

Can't stand the two abreast thing as its abused.

Why on narrow 1 lane roads?

What if a car was coming the other way on that corner? Would cycle 2 have been able to pull back in time?

Mikey23

Ive come to the conclusion that for me it just isnt worth the aggro, so i now dont do it with others and i discourage them from doing it with me. I live in the country and most of my riding is on country lanes or reasonably busy A roads. So if we are two up it is generally only for a few seconds before a blind spot, narrow passing place, car behind, car in front, tractor, horse, combine harvester etc. You have to be so alert to the noises around and the concentration levels needed means that it isnt possible to have any kind of meaningful conversation anyway. Was that wind noise, chain noise, tyre noise, breathing noise, tree noise or someone trying to kill me noise? It makes me nervous as it was this kind of situation that led to my major off and broken bones..

The guy i ride with most often is sensible, supportive and we chain gang together meaning that we are going faster and more enjoyably. It doesnt detract from our rides and there is plenty of opportunity to gas during the ride. If i dont have that complete trust in the other guy to know that he isnt going to do something stoopid or unpredictable then he aint riding alongside me. My self preservation comes first...

CXrider

Yes, agree with all of that. There is no hard line here that suits all situations. If in doubt, single out.
The only real way to ride safely two abreast is when its a long, clear country road so you have excellent vision and hearing. The other good reason to do it is club runs when 12 riders form into 2 x 6 instead of one almost unpassable single row of 12 riders.

Mind you, I don't hear of many, if any, accidents relating to cars and two abreast not when compared to junctions and roundabouts. Saw a lady down with an oxygen mask yesterday in the middle of a roundabout - she just looked shocked but it was bloody disconcerting to say the least as i was just out for a ride.

Keep safe!

racingcondor

rickeverett wrote:

Two fellas two abreast down a narrow lane the other day. Me coming the other way, there was obviously limited passing space.... They didn't bother to move so i swerved out into rider 2s path and put my elbow out. Sorry but I've had enough...

Can't stand the two abreast thing as its abused.

Why on narrow 1 lane roads?

What if a car was coming the other way on that corner? Would cycle 2 have been able to pull back in time?

Obviously I don't know how much space you had but is it possible that they thought there was room? I know of plenty of occasions where people (whatever they're doing) are oblivious and seem to think that everyone else will get out of their way so I have sympathy but please try to avoid making things worse in future, we don't need more pi$$ed off people on the UK's roads.

rickeverett

racingcondor wrote:

rickeverett wrote:

Two fellas two abreast down a narrow lane the other day. Me coming the other way, there was obviously limited passing space.... They didn't bother to move so i swerved out into rider 2s path and put my elbow out. Sorry but I've had enough...

Can't stand the two abreast thing as its abused.

Why on narrow 1 lane roads?

What if a car was coming the other way on that corner? Would cycle 2 have been able to pull back in time?

Obviously I don't know how much space you had but is it possible that they thought there was room? I know of plenty of occasions where people (whatever they're doing) are oblivious and seem to think that everyone else will get out of their way so I have sympathy but please try to avoid making things worse in future, we don't need more pi$$ed off people on the UK's roads.

I know,I'm not a road rage type or wobble head cyclist. But it really got to me as they clearly weren't paying attention and there was little room. The outside guy was chatting away and did see me but didn't bother to move.

What gets me also is I have seen these two in a group ride and they flew past two abreast whilst I was climbing a narrow lane and we nearly hit.

I think they are just prick cyclists.

CXrider

You'd think they'd know better.
Just missed being clipped by a wing mirror on what must have been a 10 foot sliver of road up Bar Hatch Lane. The car slowed right down but didn't stop, probably due to the gradient and I HAD to keep moving as it was about 18% and I would never have got going again.
We both thanked each other though and all was good.
Wave - Smile - Survive

racingcondor

@rickeverett - I certainly wouldn't rule it out ;-). I agree, it doesn't take much to drop 1/2 wheel and tuck in a bit and I'd like to think that's the least I'd have done.

lancew

I got beeped on Saturday trying to help pep talk a less experienced rider up the beginning of Devil's Dyke after 50 miles into Brighton. Not happy about it, was unnecessary. If I'd noticed they were there I'd have moved but I was busy.

I'm a pretty solid rider, but having a horn blaring in my ear as a car shoots past foot to the floor always scares the shit out of me. It's just unnecessary.

DeVlaeminck

If I'm with others the default for me is to ride 2 abreast - I wouldn't on a busy narrow road but on a country lane or a busier wider road I wouldn't have a problem. In a group yes undoubtedly some motorists get held up but rarely for any real length of time - I don't feel guilty about that most cars are far bigger than they need to be but I don't go round shouting abuse at everyone in anything bigger than a smart car so I don't expect it back for taking up less room than one on a couple of bikes.

Other cyclists who think we should all ride single file probably annoy me more than the motorists who think we should.

Mikey23

I guess i will just have to live with your annoyance then...

Bozman

Came across a classic last Saturday. I was cycling down a windy, undulating country road when I saw a long line of traffic heading towards me in the distance, a few minutes later two old chaps came round a corner chatting side by side and travelling at about 8 mph..."good morning for it sir", a tip of the cap and off they plodded oblivious to the mayhem behind.

CXrider

Lancew wrote:

I got beeped on Saturday trying to help pep talk a less experienced rider up the beginning of Devil's Dyke after 50 miles into Brighton. Not happy about it, was unnecessary. If I'd noticed they were there I'd have moved but I was busy.

I'm a pretty solid rider, but having a horn blaring in my ear as a car shoots past foot to the floor always scares the shoot out of me. It's just unnecessary.

What we need is a 120db horn to blow back at them!

CXrider

Well, that was a weekend of weirdly angry drivers - too many incidents to mention really.
Must be something in the air

Mikey23

Yup, i got deliberately windscreen washed for no obvious reason...

CXrider

On a club ride at the weekend, we were at a junction, clearly and safely back from the road and driver in a van bibbed and then gave us the universal w@nker sign. WTF, we were not even on the road and had no impact at all on his journey.

If there are people who are just completely anti-cyclists then persuading them that we are equals is going to be really, really tough.

r0b1et

CXrider wrote:

If there are people who are just completely anti-cyclists then persuading them that we are equals is going to be really, really tough.

But we aren't equals, if they hit us, we get hurt, they get nothing, some (including the woman who it me) don't even get the hassle of stopping.

CXrider

Absolutely, but in the eyes of the law we are only equals. What we really need is drivers to treat us as they do horses...
Horses have a legal right of way I believe but all we are asking is that drivers slow down and give us the same courtesy.

owen21

We ride two abreast if its safe to - sometimes you dont hear the car straight away, if the car driver dont like it then fuck them - they can have the extra 30 seconds on their precious car ride. After being knocked off by some impatient little fuck i dont have time for them, if they want to argue it face to face then they can definitely pull over and i can inform them why theyre wrong

mm1

owen21 wrote:

We ride two abreast if its safe to - sometimes you dont hear the car straight away, if the car driver dont like it then fark them - they can have the extra 30 seconds on their precious car ride. After being knocked off by some impatient little fark i dont have time for them, if they want to argue it face to face then they can definitely pull over and i can inform them why theyre wrong

But they don't really lose those 30", they just catch up with themselves a little way further up the road. I'm with you Owen, I hate the selfish b.....s.