What is all this move from 23 to 25 tyres all about?

CXrider

I am just about to get the only upgrade I will ever get.... better tyres.
I was just looking around on the usual online stores and I came across a few brands mentioning how their 25s are now the most desired choice and even the salesman down Berkshire Cycles mentioned it.

So, what are the benefits?
As a relative noob I made the logical conclusion that the thinner and harder and slicker the tyre the more 'performance' one would get out of it given the same power input.

Now people are saying 'get 25s'.

I can't keep up with all this changing goal post bollocks.

Can somebody please give me the final verdict on this before I regret my purchase one way or another.

Details:
This would be my Boardman Team on 700Cx23 Mavic Aksium wheels and I cover about 100 miles a week, give or take 20 miles each side depending on energy levels. I ride in hilly areas mostly around Surrey Hills and Berkshire.
I have some long mileage rides coming up in the summer so would likely wish to err on comfort and safety rather than pure outright speed and handling.

Thanks - always a great place for advice this forum.

kim10

I'm not really an expert but there have certainly been a lot of debate about this and I also believe some research to back up the claims that 25mm are faster then 23mm. No idea if this will apply to an amateur like myself. Have a look at this, which has some explanation on the subject, but there are quite a bit of information out there if you look:
http://inrng.com/2013/04/reinventing-the-wheel-25mm/

lostboysaint

You've answered your own question.

25mm is more comfortable than 23 as it's a bigger carcass so bigger air volume so you can run at slightly reduced pressures and have a much more comfortable ride.

There is also some science stuff (all over this board) about how that actually means that the rolling resistance is LESS, but all I know is that my times didn't change when I switched but I was more comfortable. So that's got to be a win.

CXrider

Absolutely.. comfort comes first for me. The average speed change for me is less important especially with negligible margin gains at my standard.

I will go for 25s then.. marvellous.

philwint

I seem (touch wood) to get far fewer punctures too with 25s

lostboysaint

philwint wrote:

I seem (touch wood) to get far fewer punctures too with 25s

If you're running them at lower pressures then the additional flexibility means that it's more difficult for things to penetrate (ooooerrr!) them. (one for IM there!)

drlodge

If the frame has sufficient clearance, go to the 25s.

markhewitt1978

Even at the same pressure that's true as there is more air volume to move out of the way.

lostboysaint

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Even at the same pressure that's true as there is more air volume to move out of the way.

Don't think you're quite understanding how pressure works there.

Bozman

They're bouncy, it's like riding along on two space hoppers, you can't fit cruds with them and they look massive alongside 23s. I do prefer 23s but if I'm on a run over rough roads I'll use them and the ride is smoother.
When I do use them over certain routes I also find that my averages increase by up to 2mph :roll: ........squat difference in speed.

Monty Dog

Plenty of hard evidence which demonstrates that energy losses for wider tyres are less than for skinnier ones - it's down to a thing called hysteresis and energy absorbed by the tyre carcass - the bonus is that the bigger air volume improves comfort and grip, plus you're less likely to puncture. The slight increase in width makes little difference to aerodynamics when considering the bike and rider as a whole.

joelsim

If you went for 35s, they would be extremely comfortable. And fast!

rc856

Joelsim wrote:

If you went for 35s, they would be extremely comfortable. And fast!

Have a read here as well

http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle ... e_2014.pdf

rickeverett

don't buy how a larger contact area is faster.

Mind you some 23C's are larger than 23C's. My Continental GP4000's are larger than my last 23C pair of Vittorias.

sloppyschleckonds

My Veloflex 23'Cs are smaller than my Vittoria 23C's

rolf_f

Depends on your body weight as well.

rickeverett wrote:

don't buy how a larger contact area is faster.

Mind you some 23C's are larger than 23C's. My Continental GP4000's are larger than my last 23C pair of Vittorias.

The point is that for the same air pressure, the contact area is the same size irrespective of the tyre size. Therefore, a wider tyre results in a wider contact area - so, if the overall area is the same, a wider contact area also means a shorter contact area in the direction of rotation. And that's what determines the rolling speed.

I think it's all snake oil and makes no noticeable difference!

andrew_s

The main benefit of wider tyres is that you can reduce tyre pressure without getting snakebites. Lower pressures mean the bike bounces about less, and the energy losses from bouncing about can be large (quite apart from improved comfort). On new tarmac, a 23 at higher pressure will be faster, but as soon as there's been a layer of chippings spread on a road, it's rough enough to benefit from lower pressures.

vespario

Lots of articles around on it including cyclist and cycling plus.
Buy what you like, what is in stock or what is cheapest.
If you do save some money go for latex inner tubes. This will save more weight and the air density is lowered in latex tubes which creates a floating effect and actually lowers rolling resistance.

mikenetic

vespario wrote:

...the air density is lowered in latex tubes which creates a floating effect and actually lowers rolling resistance.

Paging Dr. Science, you're going to have to explain that one to me.

Also, latex tubes are terrific if you enjoy pumping your tyres up. All. The. Time.

jimothy78

CXrider wrote:

I

Now people are saying 'get 25s'.

I can't keep up with all this changing goal post ****.

Be SOOOO glad you're not a mountainbiker, my friend! :shock:

joelsim

These are really rapid. And just 5psi in the tyres so you don't waste any air.

darkhairedlord

Pfah, 25's are sooo 2013. Next year will be all about solid tyres

MattC59

vespario wrote:

...the air density is lowered in latex tubes which creates a floating effect and actually lowers rolling resistance.

I'm not biting, I call shenanigans ! Nobody is that stupid !

joelsim

I had 23s on my Bianchi. Never again. Going to get myself a Cyclocross with slick 35s.

But then again I don't race.

thegreatdivide

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

My Veloflex 23'Cs are smaller than my Vittoria 23C's

This.

MattC59

thegreatdivide wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

My Veloflex 23'Cs are smaller than my Vittoria 23C's

This.

And my Schwalbe 23s are 24.

cycleclinic

I race on 26mm wide tyres and my normal training tyres are either 27mm front and rear (25mm in reality) or 24mm front (23.5mm in reality) and 27mm rear (25mm again). I use wider tyres because they are more comfortable and I get improved grip in the corners on real world roads. Rolling resistance may be different but you are not going to notice. Wider is certainly no slower.

However my race bike really does not have clearance for the 23mm GP4000s mounted on 25mm wide rims (that why they come up at 26mm) so I going to try 22mm veloflex tyres instead. I suspect I will be back to wafer thin (fag paper gap between the tyre and seat tube quite literally) clearance before long. It's an old frame from when 19mm tyres were fasionable.

There are some nice wide high TPI Grand Bios tyres that I would love to try on a Fugio keep on thinking about one of these. Challange Strada is another wide tyre that worth a punt.

Miles253

Can anyone recommend any good 25's ? I've got Conti 23, so might stick with Conti, but are there any better?

MattC59

Miles253 wrote:

Can anyone recommend any good 25's ? I've got Conti 23, so might stick with Conti, but are there any better?

If you want a fast tyre that will cope with all of the sh1te that's still on the roads from the winter, have a look at the Schwalbe Durano. Make sure it's the standard version, not the plus.

Round my way, there's so much flint etc been washed off the fields, that I suspect my nice sticky summer rubber would get shredded in a couple of rides. The Duranos still have good feel, roll and grip well, have good puncture protection and are only marginally heavier than the equivalent sized summer rubber. Perfect for dry but sh1tty roads.

littledove44

Miles253 wrote:

Can anyone recommend any good 25's ? I've got Conti 23, so might stick with Conti, but are there any better?

I have done 3000 miles on my Cont GP 4000's 25mm. Not a single puncture. And they were highly rated in that test on the previous page. Stop dithering and buy some.

Having jinxed that I am off now to get a puncture.

meanredspider

When I tested the whole width thing over a very consistent ride (it's a commute but forget all ideas of traffic, junctions, lights etc) I found 25C were 1mph average faster than 23C (I swapped them a few times) - which is a huge difference if I think a about the effort it would take to ride on the same tyres 1mph faster. It wasn't a blind test, obviously, but equally I was fairly open-minded about the outcome. As for tyres, I come back again and again to Vittoria Rubino Pros as brilliant all-round tyres. I think I've done around 10k on them now and can count punctures on the fingers of one hand at least two of which would have punctured anything. Some people complain about wet grip (nothing I've noticed) but get the Tech version if you think this might be an issue. GP4000S grip well in the wet but seem to puncture easier than blink in the wet too

Hopefully the trend for wider tyres will lead to more variety at 25C