Core Strength

diy

I'm having an interesting debate with a friend who is a fitness instructor. She maintains that I have very weak core strength. Its probably true as I struggle to do many of the lessons not using what I would call core cycling or upper body strength. But the argument is about riding position. Her claim is because I spend too much time in a low down aero position I am effectively resting my core. My argument is I want it all relaxed down there to maximise aerobic efficiency.

How important is core strength and how much effort do people devote to improving the core strength and what results/benefits did you expect? Is she right, will I see improvements from having a stronger core?

bompington

As long as you wear a helmet and only buy Campag you'll be fine.

ugo.santalucia

Fitness instructors are obsessed about core strength... it's a fact of life.

supermurph09

Having a stronger core will help you maintain your form on the bike, having begun to focus more on my own form I have noticed the improvement in performance. Its spending time developing my core thats the issue!!

imposter2.0

My view is that cycling itself will give you all the core strength you need for cycling. Whether you may need more 'core strength' for other purposes is a different question.

littledove44

Read the intro to Tom Danielsons book and then come back.

imposter2.0

littledove44 wrote:

Read the intro to Tom Danielsons book and then come back.

Danielson has a history of back problems, which is why a core programme like his may be useful to those with similar issues. Those with no back issues may not have the same need.

LegendLust

Imposter wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Read the intro to Tom Danielsons book and then come back.

Danielson has a history of back problems, which is why a core programme like his may be useful to those with similar issues. Those with no back issues may not have the same need.

A strong core isn't only beneficial for back issues

chrisw12

Imposter wrote:

My view is that cycling itself will give you all the core strength you need for cycling. Whether you may need more 'core strength' for other purposes is a different question.

Think this nails it on the head for me. I've been too afraid to post something like this as you get mobbed by the flexibility/core gurus.

ai_1

Good core strength is beneficial in general. It'll help you maintain good posture and protect you from injury under all sorts of circumstances both on and off the bike. I think most cyclists have pretty poor core strength because it's easily neglected on the bike and doesn't often directly effect performance. However try swimming or running where the saddle and handlebars are not isolating your upper and lower body and, if you've weak core strength, you'll notice the shortfall.

imposter2.0

LegendLust wrote:

Imposter wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Read the intro to Tom Danielsons book and then come back.

Danielson has a history of back problems, which is why a core programme like his may be useful to those with similar issues. Those with no back issues may not have the same need.

A strong core isn't only beneficial for back issues

No doubt. There are lots of things for which a stronger than normal core is useful. Not sure cycling is one of them though.

slowbike

Imposter wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Imposter wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Read the intro to Tom Danielsons book and then come back.

Danielson has a history of back problems, which is why a core programme like his may be useful to those with similar issues. Those with no back issues may not have the same need.

A strong core isn't only beneficial for back issues

No doubt. There are lots of things for which a stronger than normal core is useful. Not sure cycling is one of them though.

Your leg muscles have to work against something - they can't just push down against thin air - so they push against your body - and gravity helps hold that in position - but you need muscles in your body to stabalise the changes.
You can pedal with minimal core strength. But it won't be as efficient as a stronger core that is conditioned to take the stress.

JayKosta

You say
"I struggle to do many of the lessons not using what I would call core cycling or upper body strength"
----
Are those lessons/exercises things that a 'typically fit' person would usually be expected to be able to do?
If they are, then why are they difficult for you?

Also ask the instructor what is the long-term risk of your current core strength condition.

Adequate core strength is important for people who lead a sedentary life-style.
Lack of core strength can cause posture and mobility problems in the elderly, and that can cause other serious health issues.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

imposter2.0

Slowbike wrote:

Your leg muscles have to work against something - they can't just push down against thin air - so they push against your body - and gravity helps hold that in position - but you need muscles in your body to stabalise the changes.
You can pedal with minimal core strength. But it won't be as efficient as a stronger core that is conditioned to take the stress.

Your 'core' will adapt (ie strengthen itself) according to the demands placed on it, that's true. Pushing on the pedals doesn't really place a huge amount of stress on your core though, if that's what you mean - so it doesn't need to adapt a great deal, IMO.

wallace_and_gromit

Imposter wrote:

My view is that cycling itself will give you all the core strength you need for cycling.

If this is true, then cycling is probably the only sport where specific core strength exercises aren't a benefit.

Though if one is heavily constrained for time, such exercises may not represent optimum use of time.

ai_1

Imposter wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Your leg muscles have to work against something - they can't just push down against thin air - so they push against your body - and gravity helps hold that in position - but you need muscles in your body to stabalise the changes.
You can pedal with minimal core strength. But it won't be as efficient as a stronger core that is conditioned to take the stress.

Your 'core' will adapt (ie strengthen itself) according to the demands placed on it, that's true. Pushing on the pedals doesn't really place a huge amount of stress on your core though, if that's what you mean - so it doesn't need to adapt a great deal, IMO.

I believe you are incorrect. Very often when people participate in very specific movements on a regular basis rather than activities in a wide variety of positions and loadings, they compensate for deficiencies in core strength by recruiting other muscle groups or shifting to a position that rests the strained elements. Neither is good as it causes imbalance and inefficiency while protecting the core causing postural problems and not triggering a strengthening response from the core. If core strength automatically adapted to the demands of repeated actions as you seem to suggest then I think most of the back problems that plague the sedentary lifestyles of the developed world would not exist! I'm not saying that cycling is sedentary but it is supported, specific and does not demand the stabilising response from your core that would cause it to become or remain strong.

imposter2.0

Ai_1 wrote:

I believe you are incorrect. Very often when people participate in very specific movements on a regular basis rather than activities in a wide variety of positions and loadings, they compensate for deficiencies in core strength by recruiting other muscle groups or shifting to a position that rests the strained elements. Neither is good as it causes imbalance and inefficiency while protecting the core causing postural problems and not triggering a strengthening response from the core. If core strength automatically adapted to the demands of repeated actions as you seem to suggest then I think most of the back problems that plague the sedentary lifestyles of the developed world would not exist! I'm not saying that cycling is sedentary but it is supported, specific and does not demand the stabilising response from your core that would cause it to become or remain strong.

I don't think that is any different to what I am saying. Obviously, if you have a weakness (diagnosed or otherwise) in your core - like a bad back or any other core-linked issue - then strengthening exercises will help. In any case, the 'core' is a group of muscles - and muscles adapt to the depands placed on them by exercise - so why should the core be any different??

I'm simply saying that for those people who have a 'normal' core function, your core does not necessarily need strengthening in order to ride a bike, because (as I understand it) riding a bike places very little demand on the core. And whatever demand is placed on your core by riding a bike, will train it to adapt anyway.

Obviously I'm talking about core and cycling specifically. There are lots of other reasons why people might want to do core exercises for other purposes.

wandsworth

LegendLust wrote:

Imposter wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Read the intro to Tom Danielsons book and then come back.

Danielson has a history of back problems, which is why a core programme like his may be useful to those with similar issues. Those with no back issues may not have the same need.

A strong core isn't only beneficial for back issues

+1. Danielson may have had back issues but the bigger point is that while cycling may contribute to core strength in some ways, the cycling position can cause other problems, which more general core strength exercises can help with. That helps both in cycling and more generally in terms of posture and strength for other activities.

Danielson's book is very good, btw.

vs

I think it depends on what you are meaning by 'core'. Some (most) people mean the Abdominals but the 'core' muscles also include the Adductor, Quadriceps, Trapezuis, Gluteus and Hamstrings. I think that strengthening at least some of these muscles may be of benefit to most.

nawty

I think core strength is one of those things that until you've had it you don't see that it's necessary but once you have you notice when it's gone. A bit like good wine really...

Granted it isn't compulsory but it is definitely helpful.

Lookyhere

Imposter wrote:

My view is that cycling itself will give you all the core strength you need for cycling. Whether you may need more 'core strength' for other purposes is a different question.

you may well be correct but BC coaches stress the importance of crunches, planks etc in their RSR sessions for youths, I guess it depends on what you do for a living/other sports and genetics but as always its what you believe in.

mmacavity

http://www.muscle-fitness.co.uk/feature ... s-for-gold

"Muscle&Fitness: Do you do much gym work, Ben?
Ben Swift: In the off-season I spend a lot of time in the gym, doing mainly core stability and a bit of strength and conditioning. I like to cross train as well so I do a lot of swimming and walking.

Muscle&Fitness: What core training do you do?
Ben Swift: I do three different sessions. Each one has eight different exercises and is a mix of mat work, cable work and some free weights, such as single-leg squats and a few little rotations with light weights.

I usually have 8 kg or 10 kg in each hand when I do single-leg squats and do between 8 and 10 reps on each leg, three times. I only do two-legged squats when I incorporate it with a different move, such as a lateral twist. Single-leg squats engage your core a lot more.

Muscle&Fitness: How did you develop this routine?
Ben Swift: I had a bad back injury during 2010 that made me miss a lot of the season.

We needed to address the cause and worked out my legs had grown quite a lot and my core couldn’t handle the torque that my legs were producing. Something had to give and it was my lower back so since then I have been doing these exercises regularly and they make a massive difference. They also help with fat loss. I carry fat in my lower bottom and glutes, areas you never really train, but these exercises have got rid of it."

http://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/core-tr ... -3382.html

mmacavity

http://www.eis2win.co.uk/pages/news_str ... lists.aspx

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/ ... core-31235

mmacavity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIkewqrsuYg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amx99hIV ... PTPnq620ij

mmacavity

http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/boone ... good_sign/

" During the off-season Boonen started the collaboration with physician Sam Verslegers, and paid a lot of attention to build his core strength during the winter.
“It’s important to work with people from outside of cycling, where ideas can end up going around in circles,” Boonen said.
“We’ve worked on core strength, the strength in the upper body that we have the tendency to neglect in cycling. It brings gains in your stability on the bike, and your ability to accelerate gently but for a long time.” "

imposter2.0

Let the link-fest begin...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19026017

viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12780320

chrisw12

Imposter wrote:

Let the link-fest begin...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19026017

viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12780320

That's a brilliant thread, can you link it every time some 'core' question comes up? With p_tuckers sarcasm and Alex's science, it really does answer a lot of questions.

mmacavity

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/09/ ... dea_139198

http://www.canyonranch.com/your-health/ ... e-strength

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2011/01 ... lutes_8103

http://breakingmuscle.com/cycling/how-t ... erformance

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/core- ... -cyclists/

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014 ... tia-cancer

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/ ... ning-40924

imposter2.0

Getting silly now. Do you advocate all of that stuff? The velonews link is hilarious, by the way...

mmacavity

http://veloreviews.com/blog/2012/07/03/ ... -cyclists/

markp80

mmacavity wrote:

Muscle&Fitness: How did you develop this routine?
Ben Swift: I had a bad back injury during 2010 that made me miss a lot of the season.

We needed to address the cause and worked out my legs had grown quite a lot and my core couldn’t handle the torque that my legs were producing. Something had to give and it was my lower back so since then I have been doing these exercises regularly and they make a massive difference. They also help with fat loss. I carry fat in my lower bottom and glutes, areas you never really train, but these exercises have got rid of it"

I'm afraid this loses credibility for me when Ben suggests that you can localise fat loss by exercising that area.