Bruyneel's 10 year ban

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Comments

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Above The Cows wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Johan is often regarded as a cycling genius, but his success actually lies more with his ability to teach, motivate and take people to that next "level," whether it be on the bike or in the boardroom. Johan's winning philosophy was first documented in his book, "We Might As Well Win." Now let Johan personally inspire your employees, colleagues, VIP guests and athletes! Available for appearances throughout the world, Johan will take YOU on the road to success!

    I can taste the vomit rising. :?

    Seriously who writes this stuff? Has the man no shame, or does having loads-a-money insulate you from shame?
    There are worse people than him making good money on the public speaking circuit.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    RichN95 wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Johan is often regarded as a cycling genius, but his success actually lies more with his ability to teach, motivate and take people to that next "level," whether it be on the bike or in the boardroom. Johan's winning philosophy was first documented in his book, "We Might As Well Win." Now let Johan personally inspire your employees, colleagues, VIP guests and athletes! Available for appearances throughout the world, Johan will take YOU on the road to success!

    I can taste the vomit rising. :?

    Seriously who writes this stuff? Has the man no shame, or does having loads-a-money insulate you from shame?
    There are worse people than him making good money on the public speaking circuit.

    This does not make it better Rich :shock: :cry: :x

    *tries in vain to get picture of Tony Blair out of head*
    Correlation is not causation.
  • tuneskyline
    tuneskyline Posts: 370
    If Bruyneel offered to coach you for free how many of you would take him up on his offer?
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    tuneskyline wrote:
    Could you tell me the riders that Postal/Armstrong raced against that were clean and never cheated?

    Christophe Bassons and all the ones that were not caught because we cannot prove a negative.

    Fact is it doesn't really matter for Bruyneel right now if everyone else was doing it. Yes we can argue about the structures of the time versus individual agency, but rules is rules. They broke them, they got caught. When you get caught, take the punishment and shut up. If you don't want to except the punishment don't cheat in the first place. Crimes happen all the time however I can't stand up in a court and claim that I should be found not guilty of murder because Tony Blair hasn't been sent to the Hague. That's not how it works.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • tuneskyline
    tuneskyline Posts: 370
    Above The Cows wrote:
    tuneskyline wrote:
    Could you tell me the riders that Postal/Armstrong raced against that were clean and never cheated?

    Christophe Bassons and all the ones that were not caught because we cannot prove a negative.

    Fact is it doesn't really matter for Bruyneel right now if everyone else was doing it. Yes we can argue about the structures of the time versus individual agency, but rules is rules. They broke them, they got caught. When you get caught, take the punishment and shut up. If you don't want to except the punishment don't cheat in the first place. Crimes happen all the time however I can't stand up in a court and claim that I should be found not guilty of murder because Tony Blair hasn't been sent to the Hague. That's not how it works.

    There are a lot of convicted dopers still riding and working for teams who committed the same offence who got very small bans in comparison.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    tuneskyline wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    tuneskyline wrote:
    Could you tell me the riders that Postal/Armstrong raced against that were clean and never cheated?

    Christophe Bassons and all the ones that were not caught because we cannot prove a negative.

    Fact is it doesn't really matter for Bruyneel right now if everyone else was doing it. Yes we can argue about the structures of the time versus individual agency, but rules is rules. They broke them, they got caught. When you get caught, take the punishment and shut up. If you don't want to except the punishment don't cheat in the first place. Crimes happen all the time however I can't stand up in a court and claim that I should be found not guilty of murder because Tony Blair hasn't been sent to the Hague. That's not how it works.

    There are a lot of convicted dopers still riding and working for teams who committed the same offence who got very small bans in comparison.


    So which guys did the same stuff as team managers as Bruyneel and got 'small bans' in comparison?

    If you're talking Hincapie, Vande Velde, DZ and crew...their bans (such as they were) were for what they did as riders.
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Should the sponsors be banned from the sport also ... Trek have done especially well out of all this as a principal sponsor and just moved onto the next project without any sanctions ...

    Or are Trek too valuable a sponsor for a fragile sporting model? In the same way LA was too big to take down at the time, and Bertie was given a comedy ban and welcomed back by ASO after testing positive in their race ...
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    tuneskyline wrote:
    If Bruyneel offered to coach you for free how many of you would take him up on his offer?
    Depends whether it was cycling or drug running.

    Frenchie will love this one. Contador's special relationship with Pepe Martí:
    http://inrng.com/2014/04/bruyneel-banne ... dor-marti/
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    tuneskyline wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    tuneskyline wrote:
    Could you tell me the riders that Postal/Armstrong raced against that were clean and never cheated?

    Christophe Bassons and all the ones that were not caught because we cannot prove a negative.

    Fact is it doesn't really matter for Bruyneel right now if everyone else was doing it. Yes we can argue about the structures of the time versus individual agency, but rules is rules. They broke them, they got caught. When you get caught, take the punishment and shut up. If you don't want to except the punishment don't cheat in the first place. Crimes happen all the time however I can't stand up in a court and claim that I should be found not guilty of murder because Tony Blair hasn't been sent to the Hague. That's not how it works.

    There are a lot of convicted dopers still riding and working for teams who committed the same offence who got very small bans in comparison.

    Yeah and people get different sentences for murder depending on the specifics of the case. Your point is?
    Correlation is not causation.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    oooh, that's interesting...USADA had to drop the pre-04 stuff cos of SoL, could only base their evidence on 04 onwards....

    Which leads you to wonder what would have happened if Lance had gone to arbitration after all....
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Interesting stuff for Contador. He's obviously always been a liar but now we seem to have some conflicting statements from official sources.

    How many Astana riders have been banned or implemented in doping scandals? In 2007 they have 5 riders. I can think off the top of my head another 4, and then they has so many ex Postal/Discovery riders. Dodgy team with only Dodgy riders to go through. Hope they are clean now, I believe somewhat in Nibali but the fact Vino is their manager.

    I hope he does a book and many of the people get exposed as the liars and cheats they are.


    I wish we could implement life bans for all dopers.
  • curium
    curium Posts: 815
    RichN95 wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Johan is often regarded as a cycling genius, but his success actually lies more with his ability to teach, motivate and take people to that next "level," whether it be on the bike or in the boardroom. Johan's winning philosophy was first documented in his book, "We Might As Well Win." Now let Johan personally inspire your employees, colleagues, VIP guests and athletes! Available for appearances throughout the world, Johan will take YOU on the road to success!

    I can taste the vomit rising. :?

    Seriously who writes this stuff? Has the man no shame, or does having loads-a-money insulate you from shame?
    There are worse people than him making good money on the public speaking circuit.
    Tony Blair springs to mind... :roll:
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    curium wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Johan is often regarded as a cycling genius, but his success actually lies more with his ability to teach, motivate and take people to that next "level," whether it be on the bike or in the boardroom. Johan's winning philosophy was first documented in his book, "We Might As Well Win." Now let Johan personally inspire your employees, colleagues, VIP guests and athletes! Available for appearances throughout the world, Johan will take YOU on the road to success!

    I can taste the vomit rising. :?

    Seriously who writes this stuff? Has the man no shame, or does having loads-a-money insulate you from shame?
    There are worse people than him making good money on the public speaking circuit.
    Tony Blair springs to mind... :roll:
    When I wrote that the person I was actually thinking of was Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall Street). If Bruyneel embraced his villainy, there's no end to people who would pay to hear tales of wrong doing.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tuneskyline
    tuneskyline Posts: 370
    Can someone tell me what sort bans the other team managers got during the same period. I am talking about the teams who we know were doping as well ? We also know from what riders have said since that Postal did not have the most sophisticated doping program. That is what I was trying to say but did not get it across very well. Sorry for that.
    We have heard and read so much stuff about what went on at Postal and it would be interesting if we had the same kind of info about the other teams of that time. I'm sure if the facts came out, other managers of the era would be charged with exactly the same sort of offences. Bruyneel was hardly running a drugs cartel in South America. I think the actions of riders and teams have to be kept in context of the times. Postal were not the first team to dope but through Armstrong's victories they seem to be taking all the blame. I think the UCI ruled with a cotton wool ball and have been lucky to have a scapegoat like Armstrong and Postal to help cover their inability to control things and their ability to keep quiet and keep their pockets lined.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    oooh, that's interesting...USADA had to drop the pre-04 stuff cos of SoL, could only base their evidence on 04 onwards....

    Which leads you to wonder what would have happened if Lance had gone to arbitration after all....

    That's been the position of Travis the whole time - If he's gone to arbitration, he'd still be winner of a bunch of Tours and would've probably got a shorter ban
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    iainf72 wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    oooh, that's interesting...USADA had to drop the pre-04 stuff cos of SoL, could only base their evidence on 04 onwards....

    Which leads you to wonder what would have happened if Lance had gone to arbitration after all....

    That's been the position of Travis the whole time - If he's gone to arbitration, he'd still be winner of a bunch of Tours and would've probably got a shorter ban
    Isn't that a pretty lousy position for any prosecutor/judge (which ever he is) to take? To hand out a verdict which they think won't stand up to appeal. Surely they have to give what they think is the right decision in the eyes of the law, not the one they want.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • skylla
    skylla Posts: 758
    edited April 2014
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Re the jurisdiction question, cross-border jurisdiction is permitted under the WADA Code. Its how CONI were able to get Piti, after all

    And with this little line in the USADA statement 'Most recently, Martí had worked for the Team Saxo Bank-Tinkoff Bank team until after USADA’s case was initiated'

    and as summarised by INRNG
    http://inrng.com/

    ....Bert and Riis have a few questions to answer

    UPDATE: USADA have changed their statement. It read “Most recently, Martí had worked for the Team Saxo Bank-Tinkoff Bank team” this morning but 12 hours later pixel time it had been changed to say “Martí worked with one or more riders on Team Saxo Bank-Tinkoff Bank team”. This suggests Martí might have been working privately with riders rather than by the team

    http://inrng.com/2014/04/bruyneel-banne ... dor-marti/
  • mm1
    mm1 Posts: 1,063
    There are worse people than him making good money on the public speaking circuit.[/quote]
    Tony Blair springs to mind... :roll:[/quote]
    When I wrote that the person I was actually thinking of was Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall Street). If Bruyneel embraced his villainy, there's no end to people who would pay to hear tales of wrong doing.[/quote]

    Gordon Liddy (Watergate burglar) made a good living on the US chicken in a basket circuit, strange double act with Timothy Leary as I recall.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    as we've said before, yes you can ban all the riders that are caught, but if you still have the same DSs and doctors and trainers it doesn't change much.

    Ferrari was banned and still works with cyclists so will be interesting to see how this is handled
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    sherer wrote:
    as we've said before, yes you can ban all the riders that are caught, but if you still have the same DSs and doctors and trainers it doesn't change much.

    Ferrari was banned and still works with cyclists so will be interesting to see how this is handled


    And riders have certainly still been working with Pepe Marti...never mind Bert etc, according to @RaceRadio, Dani Navarro's still been using him

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