TSB for new power meter user - does TSB level itself out.

trouty00

HI All,
looking for some advice - just got power meter and been using for last month or so, and have entered some data for the preceding workouts based on my power meter rides so think its reasonably accurate. Everything I have read suggests that CTL will figure itself out based on the data once 42 days of data is captured but what about TSB as this seems to really be effected by seed data.

i'm just about to hit my recovery week after doing my build phase which was 10/14/18 hours (was preceded by a 6 hour recovery week)

I am training to ride to Barcelona in 6 weeks time and was planning to base my taper on gaining a positive TSB but seeing as this fluctuates based on the seed data i#m not sure if you trust it or not.

Now this question isnt really to ask if this is reliable as I understand that this is a generic formula and different people/ages need more or less time to recover etc etc and im only using this as a guide however I guess as a guide i can take some info form this as to wether its -30 or + 30

The question is more about if TSB levels out itself after 42 days or if this will always be reliant on seed data and if so is there a better way to manage this?

Thanks
Stu

Alex_Simmons/RST

You need about 4 months of data, or less if you seed the chart with reasonable starting values for CTL & ATL.

ATL and CTL are exponentially weighted moving averages, hence every ride back to the dawn of time affects today's CTL and ATL values, with more recent rides being weighted more than older rides.

The time constant for CTL is (typically) 42 days. 42 days is *not* the time over which TSS data is averaged to calculate CTL.

Of course it also helps to make sure you are using an estimate of FTP that's close to reality, as an incorrect FTP setting will see daily TSS values under- or over-inflated.

trouty00

Hi Alex, thanks for the info and speedy reply! I'm confident that I have my FTP correct as I've done a few of these test as was using trainerroad during the winter (uk resident). I have populated previous rides (about two months worth) prior to owning power meter with TSS based on data I've captured since owning the power meter as most of my rides fall in too similar categories. ( not perfect but a good indication)

As for seeding again I have multiple graphs starting at different dates, 1 based on zero seed data just looking at last 28 days and another since when i have populated estimated tss back to mid febuary and the figures are about 10 off for both tsb and ctl. What are your thoughts on when I should try to create he graphs?




What do you think is best approach? Try to seed it based on the multiple formulas which seem to be available or try to populate the TSS manually for previous rides based on what data I have with power meter, even if I am +\- 10%, do you think this will be better indication than seed data or not?

What's your recommendation on seeding formula?

A lot of questions and really appreciate your help with this as obviously just trying to get things as correct as I I can in preparation for trip.

I will of course get another months worth of data before I really need to start taper I think which will help I guess...

Stu

bahzob

TSS/CTL/ATL/TSB can useful in measuring training load and are better then just relying on feel.

However they are still subjective in terms of their actual effect on training/competing and actual numbers can vary wildly between individuals. Even just for an given athlete it takes quite a long time to calibrate absolute values you see for these against real life performance. In my experience it's only really possible to start to do this after quite a long while. e.g. during an end of season review when the overall trend can be compared against actual results achieved and used to plan ahead.

Given this I'd advise both now and on an ongoing basis to use TSB etc. as an additional tool that complements and is used in conjunction with other measures of training load/recovery status. For an event that's taking place in only 6 weeks time I would tend to give these other measures priority, while ofc building up a history.

bahzob

PS. One other thing that's worth being aware of is the actual relationship of the actual stress caused by training is only partially reflected by its TSS score. Individuals vary so that some will find short intense intervals very tiring, while others will find long endurance rides hard. This is reflected in the differences between power profiles between individuals but TSS does not take account of this.

So, for example, I find sprints tough and long days in the saddle easy. So a 90 minute HIIT session which generates around 100TSS points requires more recovery than a 4 hour endurance ride that generates 250TSS.

(You can override calculated TSS values to reflect this though I don't, preferring to just factor this into my training plan CTL values and interpretation of the Performance Management Chart.)

Alex_Simmons/RST

trouty00 wrote:

What do you think is best approach?

What's your recommendation on seeding formula?

Don't try to overcomplicate things. At least not to start with.

Just use a reasonable estimate of starting CTL & ATL. You can do that by simply multiplying your average weekly hours by 7 say. Average for last few weeks and months, e.g. if average weekly hours = 10, then use an estimated seed of 70 TSS/day. Of course some will be more, some less, but it's not about having a perfect seed, it's about having a seed that's closer than zero might be and allowing the chart to settle in a little more quickly than it might otherwise do.

The main thing to look for are trends with each value, not so much the absolute values. Note the direction each is heading and what that means for you.

As for tapering, unless your CTL is well north of 100, I wouldn't be worrying about a big taper. Just a little recovery perhaps. For the sort of ride you describe, I'd suggest you'll be probably be better served with a higher CTL than a higher TSB.

Here's a post that talks about the time constants, and also provide links to older items I've written on the topic as well as items by Hunter Allen and Andy Coggan:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2013/ ... lysis.html