Another cyclist killed (Angus region)

thegreatdivide
thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
edited April 2014 in Road general
Only discovered this today:

http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... h-1.322019

Look how straight that road is and it happened at 10am. It's being called 'a serious car accident' - FFS!

So sad.
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Comments

  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    The damaged turquoise road bike was lying in the middle of the road with a squashed wheel. A small white van was parked close by with a smashed front window screen on its passenger side.
    Passenger side damage, so it sounds likely they hit the cyclist from behind while attempting to overtake? It is a really straight bit of road but that'd just encourage people to overtake on it so they don't get stuck behind the "bloody cyclist" further on. Wouldn't be surprised if they tried to squeeze between the cyclist and oncoming traffic and got it horribly wrong :(
  • rpherts
    rpherts Posts: 207
    "smashed front window screen on its passenger side" suggests that the car simply ploughed straight through. An overtaking manouver would clip a cyclist, if anything.

    Anyway, speculation at this point.
  • Just sickening.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    rpherts wrote:
    "smashed front window screen on its passenger side" suggests that the car simply ploughed straight through. An overtaking manouver would clip a cyclist, if anything.

    Anyway, speculation at this point.
    I was thinking that perhaps someone had pulled out to overtake at high speed, realised too late oncoming traffic was going to hit them and automatically swerved back to their left, hitting the cyclist instead. Could equally well have been been a "straight through" thing but there'd be even less excuse for that on a stretch of road so wide open and straight! But yes all speculation at the moment.
  • mekong_velo
    mekong_velo Posts: 102
    RIP to the poor rider, very sad.


    Regards
    Cervelo R3
    Tarmac Elite
  • My thoughts are with the family.So sad.
    Hey, maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but we just got our asses kicked, pal!
  • Respects go out to the cyclists family. Another shocking loss of life. It is difficult to say who was to blame but really makes you think twice about sharing the roads with motor vehicles. Just wondering if the poor cyclist was wearing a head cam or any form of photographic evidence?
  • I'm from Dundee, and have cycled that stretch of road a few times. It's generally fairly straight with good visibility, as seen by the photo, which is why I tend to go that way, which makes this incident all the more shocking and makes you think about your own safety on what is after all a quieter country road. So sad, and my thoughts are with the family.

    The description of damage to the van would suggest that the driver didn't even see the cyclist :shock:
  • reg_
    reg_ Posts: 21
    Tragic loss of life :(
  • rickeverett
    rickeverett Posts: 988
    I'm from Dundee, and have cycled that stretch of road a few times. It's generally fairly straight with good visibility, as seen by the photo, which is why I tend to go that way, which makes this incident all the more shocking and makes you think about your own safety on what is after all a quieter country road. So sad, and my thoughts are with the family.

    The description of damage to the van would suggest that the driver didn't even see the cyclist :shock:


    Van drivers are dic*s at the best of times and never allow enough room.

    Roads are getting dangerous by the day, thats why im surprised at cyclists who think two-abreast, RLJ, and other risky business is acceptable, esp country lanes.
  • rattyc5
    rattyc5 Posts: 84
    how the hell could he of not seen the cyclist!
    most car drivers I see overtaking cyclist don't give a damn, they overtake with traffic coming the other way leaving only inches of space for us cyclists.
  • fat_cat
    fat_cat Posts: 566
    RIP and condolences to their nearest and dearest
  • ck101
    ck101 Posts: 222
    Definitely one where use of a mobile phone by the driver should be investigated.

    I was skimmed last year by a driver on a similar road only to catch him at a set of lights half a mile up the road on the phone texting or on facebook.

    RIP.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    So sad for the family of the guy concerned. :(

    Still - whilst this is a cycling forum, there is far too much jumping to conclusions automatically blaming the van driver. Nobody yet knows the details but while the driver could be guilty as charged of any of the above (^^^), the van could also be completely blameless. Lets not jump to any groundless conclusions without any facts hey please. Once the facts are known then maybe then we can all call for the van driver to be strung up - but equally remember there might be a completely blameless driver who has to live with this on his conscience for the rest of their life.
  • tootsie323
    tootsie323 Posts: 199
    Condolences to the nearest and dearest fof the cyclist.

    As above, there is bery little in the article that we can draw any deficitive conclusions from, specifically with determining responsibility. Similarly, the article itself does is very neutral in its content. Contrary to the OP's assertion, it is not described as a 'serious car accident' but as a serious road traffic collision.
    A Police Scotland spokeswoman confirmed that officers were making inquiries into a serious road traffic collision...

    All I might speculate is that the cyclist may not have suffered for long, if at all, before sadly passing on.
  • Aye your right the cyclist must have jumped out in front of him.

    The sooner we get some laws to protect cyclists more the better. It's a real shame cyclists have to die before something is done. Poor bloke, I feel for his family, it's all very sad and heartbreaking.

    Let me just make one point a car is a lethal weapons the sooner drivers realise that and drive with due care and attention the better. The ones that don't need to be locked up. None of this careless driving it's dangerous driving.
  • Guanajuato
    Guanajuato Posts: 399
    With such a long straight, there's absolutely no way he couldn't be seen. My experience is that some drivers, particularly van & bus drivers, seem to think it's a good game to see how close they can pass. There's no excuse for this prick and they should throw the book at them. But we all know it'll be a slap on the wrist rather than the ban for life out should be. If they can't see other road users in that situation, they should never be let back on the road.
    I do appreciate the attempted balanced viewpoint in over of the earlier posts, but I just can't see any credible defence here. If they pulled in whilst trying to overtake, then they should have been aware and not started to overtake.
  • kiwimatt
    kiwimatt Posts: 208
    Guanajuato wrote:
    With such a long straight, there's absolutely no way he couldn't be seen.
    +1
    It's unusual to get published photos of the accident scene and vehicle as clearly as in this incident. You can see the long straight road before the accident site and the impact on the front left corner light and windscreen of the van. The driver 'looked but didn't see' no doubt he will be telling the police. Bo**ocks. Anything but a long stretch in the jail will be an outrage. Just makes me sick. Local music teacher and all round good guy as usual. How hard do you have to hit him so that death is instant and the 'cyclist wasn't taken to hospital'.Poor bastard.
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    So sad for the family of the guy concerned. :(

    Still - whilst this is a cycling forum, there is far too much jumping to conclusions automatically blaming the van driver. Nobody yet knows the details but while the driver could be guilty as charged of any of the above (^^^), the van could also be completely blameless. Lets not jump to any groundless conclusions without any facts hey please. Once the facts are known then maybe then we can all call for the van driver to be strung up - but equally remember there might be a completely blameless driver who has to live with this on his conscience for the rest of their life.
    While I appreciate that jumping to conclusions on the flimsiest of evidence is a real problem in places like this, it's almost certainly justified here. Unless the cyclist was on the wrong side of the road riding into oncoming traffic and hit the van head on, the chances are extremely good that the driver was at fault. From looking at the photo in the article, it appears the front end of the bike is relatively intact, which means the cyclist was hit from behind. Add in the long, wide, straight section of road, the time being 10am (so no excuses about low sun or bad light) and it's hard to see how it's anything other than bad/dangerous driving.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    tootsie323 wrote:
    ontrary to the OP's assertion, it is not described as a 'serious car accident' but as a serious road traffic collision.

    "Police and ambulance services have been called to a serious car accident in Angus."

    Just back from a pre breakfast ride and was yet again passed by a vehicle (a van surprise surprise) squeezing between me and the oncoming traffic (A923 into Muirhead). It's a long straight road, I'm doing 30, the oncoming traffic is probably doing twice that but the driver just had to get past me risking everyone's lives. Fuxking idiot.

    I've read countless articles on cyclist being killed and injured by drivers (been in a pretty bad one myself) but this new incident has really played on my mind this week. Perhaps because it's so close to home. :(
  • tootsie323
    tootsie323 Posts: 199
    tootsie323 wrote:
    ontrary to the OP's assertion, it is not described as a 'serious car accident' but as a serious road traffic collision.

    "Police and ambulance services have been called to a serious car accident in Angus."

    Just back from a pre breakfast ride and was yet again passed by a vehicle (a van surprise surprise) squeezing between me and the oncoming traffic (A923 into Muirhead). It's a long straight road, I'm doing 30, the oncoming traffic is probably doing twice that but the driver just had to get past me risking everyone's lives. Fuxking idiot.

    I've read countless articles on cyclist being killed and injured by drivers (been in a pretty bad one myself) but this new incident has really played on my mind this week. Perhaps because it's so close to home. :(
    Ah - completely missed that first line. Apologies...
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    adr82 wrote:
    and it's hard to see how it's anything other than bad/dangerous driving.

    Or bad / dangerous cycling - we simply dont know. There's 1001 reasons why this may have happened from the van driver deliberately mowing him down to the cyclist wearing headphones and having swerved into the middle of the lane right into the path of the van giving him loads of space. Even a court may not get to the truth unfortunately :cry:
  • adr82 wrote:
    and it's hard to see how it's anything other than bad/dangerous driving.

    Or bad / dangerous cycling - we simply dont know. There's 1001 reasons why this may have happened ...down to the cyclist wearing headphones and having swerved into the middle of the lane right into the path of the van giving him loads of space. :cry:

    This is the kind of theory an anti cyclist would come up with. What a load of tosh. According to the Highway Code the driver should give the cyclist as much room as he would overtaking a car. This is to allow for a cyclist changing his line to avoid potholes etc.
  • adr82 wrote:
    and it's hard to see how it's anything other than bad/dangerous driving.

    Or bad / dangerous cycling - we simply dont know. There's 1001 reasons why this may have happened ...down to the cyclist wearing headphones and having swerved into the middle of the lane right into the path of the van giving him loads of space. :cry:

    This is the kind of theory an anti cyclist would come up with. What a load of tosh. According to the Highway Code the driver should give the cyclist as much room as he would overtaking a car. This is to allow for a cyclist changing his line to avoid potholes etc.
    Why did you feel the need to deliberately misquote Paul and take what he'd written out of context?
  • kiwimatt
    kiwimatt Posts: 208
    Or bad / dangerous cycling - we simply dont know. There's 1001 reasons why this may have happened from the van driver deliberately mowing him down to the cyclist wearing headphones and having swerved into the middle of the lane right into the path of the van giving him loads of space.

    I accept the 'we don't know' bit - but I'm sorry the loads of space thing is just tosh. Let's take the passing a horse analogy again - so you see the horse, slow from 60mph to 20 or 30, let the oncoming traffic clear and ease past in case the thing is spooked and starts out into the road Is this the driving that happened here? - or has the cyclist been cleaned out from behind at 50mph and killed instantly because the driver was fiddling with his phone/sat nav/still drunk/late/fallen out with the missus/insert excuse court will accept. Total disgrace.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    This is the kind of theory an anti cyclist would come up with. What a load of tosh. According to the Highway Code the driver should give the cyclist as much room as he would overtaking a car. This is to allow for a cyclist changing his line to avoid potholes etc.

    Oh is that right - so not making uneducated assumptions that the van driver is as guilty as hell makes me anti-cyclist?? Its morons like you (clearly anti-van driver) that are the problem - god help anyone who ends up with you on a jury seeing as you're someone who jumps to so many conclusions without knowing fcuk all about the facts as soon as someone suggests that we shouldnt just assume!! I'll say it again - we havent got a clue what happened have we!!

    Oh and just to provide some balance about my feeling of vans before you make any more dumb assumptions about me being anti-anything - this was my own club recently..... http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/laughing-connahs-quay-van-driver-6729093

    A few morons in vans doesnt make every van driver involved in an accident automatically responsible!
  • This is the kind of theory an anti cyclist would come up with. What a load of tosh. According to the Highway Code the driver should give the cyclist as much room as he would overtaking a car. This is to allow for a cyclist changing his line to avoid potholes etc.

    Oh is that right - so not making uneducated assumptions that the van driver is as guilty as hell makes me anti-cyclist?? Its morons like you (clearly anti-van driver) that are the problem - god help anyone who ends up with you on a jury seeing as you're someone who jumps to so many conclusions without knowing fcuk all about the facts as soon as someone suggests that we shouldnt just assume!! I'll say it again - we havent got a clue what happened have we!!

    Oh and just to provide some balance about my feeling of vans before you make any more dumb assumptions about me being anti-anything - this was my own club recently..... http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/laughing-connahs-quay-van-driver-6729093

    A few morons in vans doesnt make every van driver involved in an accident automatically responsible!

    While I appreciate your playing the devils advocate here you can't defend the undefencable. I'm not normally the hang em high type but there's no excuse for that kind of accident. I wasn't saying you were anti cyclist it was just the statement you offered up as a possibility is a load of tosh. We are fighting against that kind of attitude every day and aware that this kind of thing could happen to any of us. Let's not make excuses for this kind of thing.
  • And who are you calling a moron? Name calling is not the kind of thing intelligent people do so that says more about you than me.
  • fredmac
    fredmac Posts: 83
    Here's a scenario:
    Cyclist is riding on the pavement towards oncoming traffic.
    Loses concentration, swerves to the left and rides into oncoming van. Smashing window on the passenger side.

    May or may not have happened.
    But then I'm as informed as much about this accident as the rest of you (unless someone want's to say otherwise).

    So let's stop the blame game until we know what happened.
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Enough...

    Thoughts and condolences to family and friends