Rims way too tight!

Quizmate

Just got a planet x rt 58 which came with FSA Vision Team 30 18mm rim wheels. Thought I'd upgrade the Conti Ultrasport Tyres to Vreidestein Fortezza Tri comp 700 x 23 and what a nightmare! I failed to get the new tyre on and and then couldn't get it off. Once it did finally come off I couldn't get the Ultrasport back on without two pinch flats, wrecked levers (did my best not to use them) and wrecked hands. The whole process took over 5 hours so i don't fancy my chances of fixing a flat by the roadside. Can anyone advise? Is this an awkward wheelset and should I be complaining to PX or is it technique?

ugo.santalucia

From a tyre that is called "fortress" you might expect a bit of a battle...

DiscoBoy

It's technique.

You might find it easier if you put your tyre in the airing cupboard or a conservatory first.

I take it that you know to push the "bead" into the centre of the rim as you go around? This is for a beaded rather than a folding tyre, but the logic is the same:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4

Monty Dog

Have you fitted a rigid plastic rim tape? If so, ditch it and fit a thinner one like Velox cloth or Stans yellow. Next, watch some youtube videos on fitting bike tyres to learn the right technique.

g00se

I had this problem with veloflexes until a mate showed me the process.

1. Stand in the tyre and give it a good stretch first.

2. Lots of talc. LOTS OF TALC. Poor it over the inside of the tyre and roll the tyre so the whole inside is covered.

3. Fit the tyre as normal using all the tricks (bead down in rim etc.).

thegreatdivide

g00se wrote:

I had this problem with veloflexes until a mate showed me the process.

1. Stand in the tyre and give it a good stretch first.

PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS!!! :shock:

g00se

thegreatdivide wrote:

g00se wrote:

I had this problem with veloflexes until a mate showed me the process.

1. Stand in the tyre and give it a good stretch first.

PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS!!! :shock:

Hi,

Seriously, what's the issue with doing this?

slowbike

g00se wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

g00se wrote:

I had this problem with veloflexes until a mate showed me the process.

1. Stand in the tyre and give it a good stretch first.

PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS!!! :shock:

Hi,

Seriously, what's the issue with doing this?

you'll make it oval ....

cycleclinic

and damage the bead. Tyre fitting is all down to technique and as a cyclist you need to learn. Practice make perfect do it enough and you will figure it out. Watching video's won't help much though doing will.

Take your wheel in the living room and spend an evening making your hands sore by the end you will have better technique. there is no other way.

minley1

I have these rims too, I got a slit in one of the tyres (continental Ultra Sport Folding), decided that I may as well upgrade the tyres, I purchased a pair of the New Continental Grand Prix SPII, by the Beard of Zeus these rims are tight!

It took over an hour to do the front wheel, then nearly two hours to do the rear which when inflated the tube was obviously pinched and subsequently burst, the tyre then also split down the middle with the force (obviously a defective tyre), I also broke one of my tyre levers.
I had to admit defeat, and did the walk of shame to ask the LBS to fit a new tyre.
My worry is having to do this at the side of the road, I am new to changing Road Bike tyres, can't believe how much more difficult they are than MTB, is this just this Rim?

Monty Dog

Ask the guys down your LBS to show you the technique - many bike shop mechanics pride themselves on not needing levers.

JayKosta

Yes, fitting new tires can be difficult - mainly because the high pressures needed by narrow tires requires that the tire is a secure (tight) fit on the rim.

You can also try a few drops of water as a lubricant on the tire/rim where it gets really tight.

After the tire is on the rim, BEFORE inflating it - carefully do a detailed inspection of both sides of the tire to make sure the tube is NOT pinched between the tire & rim. If the tube is pinched, then carefully 'massage' tire in that section to get the tube back inside where it belongs. Also make sure the valve stem is straight - if it's angled, try squeezing the tire & tube and push it around the rim - just work your way around the rim, and the valve will slowly move into correct position. If there is a nut on the threaded valve stem, just make it slightly snug - too tight makes it difficult to remove when the tire is deflated.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

cycleclinic

Tyre fitting should be taught in schools it is just as important as learning lots of other stuff. Oh and tyre fitting has nothing to do with hand strength. I have taught girls with tiny thin hands to put gator skins onto chrina rims an known tight combo. It is all down to technique. You can watch video's but the best way is to spend a day doing it yourslef. Your hands will be raw at the end but your a human you'll work it out.

meagain

Some combos are just too difficult to bother with - if it takes an hour at home in the warm then it ain't going to happen road side in the cold and wet. Usually the more p* resistant the more difficult. NONE are actually flat-proof and I'd rather have less resistant if it means easy on/easy off. When I had to cut off a tyre that I'd fitted without a tube thinking it might stretch it, I binned the other one of the pair!

dennisn

Why does all this sound like even more trouble than gluing tubulars? Pinch flats while mounting, rim cuts, rim tape issues, etc. :?

minley1

Definitely struggled with these, hoping that now they are on, they should be easier to get off next time.
As I said, I have changed MTB tyres for years, both in the comfort of home and out in all weathers on the trails.
Lbs (Pedal Heaven) were very good for not laughing at me, and they did it for me the same day, as I wanted to get out the following day.
they suggested a Crank Brothers tyre lever (which they don't stock, so not trying to sell me one), which I have now bought, so perhaps a few more times and it will be fine

cycleclinic

No tyre should take a hour to fit. The tightest I have found is gatorskin hardshells on MA40's I had too resort to tyre levers. It is all down to technique nothing else. Warming tyres and fitting thinner base tape I am sorry are thing people do if they do not have the right technique. I see people struggling with tyres at the road side in winter you can't warm up a tyre then and it does not take me long at all to get it on. If it takes an hour to fit practice more and learn how to do it properly or ask the mechanic in your LBS to show you. I'll show you if you like if your passing Glemsford. Nothing wrong with finding it difficult but your a human you can learn to it better that what humans do so very well.

frisbee

It's not just technique, there will be design and manufacturing variability of both tyres and rims..

cycleclinic

Yes there is but good technique solves this or how do mechanics get tyres on with little bother. Ever wondered? It not brute strength.

Bordersroadie

Good technique or not, some tyre/rim combos are just unacceptably difficult to fit/remove in the real world, ie not a bike shop or cosy kitchen). The "hardest" example the Cycle Clinic quotes, MA40s with Gator Hardshells, is a combo I've used and found easy to fit/remove, so there may be manufacturing variables too.

On the other hand OpenPro and Excellight with Schwalbe Durano Plus I found to be physically so difficult to fit that I sent them back and exchanged them for a different tyre. It's all very well talking about technique (I'm 50 and have great tyre fitting technique over more than 4 decades) but when it's freezing cold and dark and your hands are numb and you need a very quick tyre change, it's essential to have a rim/tyre combo that makes the job easy.

I've found that for my rims of choice, OpenPro and Excellight, all Continental tyres (GP4000s, GP4S, Gatorskin, Gator Hardshell) fit and remove with no problem even with cold, wet hands.

Maybe these threads would be more useful if people shared their own "good rim/tyre combinations" instead of just spouting good technique. Good fitting technique is a great thing to have but it doesn't mean you have to accept that a certain rim/tyre will be very difficult to fit roadside in deep dark winter when much easier combos exist.

Bordersroadie

thecycleclinic wrote:

Yes there is but good technique solves this or how do mechanics get tyres on with little bother. Ever wondered? It not brute strength.

I would imagine that they don't change a tyre in the dark, on a roadside, with freezing cold, filthy wet hands, in a fluster because they have to get to work or back home to a deadline. Even with the best technique, adding in these factors makes a big difference and can render a tyre that is hard to fit in a warm dry workshop impossible to fit.

cycleclinic

Last winter I had a 4 punctures on a wet cold day. The rims and tyres I use are what some would consider tight. No problems getting them on though. Technique makes it allot easier trust me it does. My shop of the last two winters has had no heating (I will sort that for this winter though) and it has got really cold in here. Still fitting tyres is not a problem. Technique is everything it's not down to strength. No tyre is impossible to fit I have done so many now on so many different rims.

brianlescargot

Anyone who has posted replies suggesting improving tyre fitting technique clearly hasn't had a go a fitting tyres onto these rims. I just bought a set from PX and spent all last night trying to fit tyres, new ones, old ones, various makes, heating them up, etc, etc. and no way is a tyre going on! 2 hours, sore hands and a broken Park Tool lever taking off the side I did manage to on back off again. Suggesting talc may be ok for an initial fit but is no good if you suffer a puncture out and about. I phoned PX in Edinburgh today and member of staff also confirmed the issue with these wheels and that their own shop mechanic had failed trying to fit 25c tyres on them. I got these as a great offer so maybe that's the reason why. I shall be arranging a return tomorrow though as they are as good as useless. PS I have fitted hundreds of tyres over the years and don't need to improve my technique!

ugo.santalucia

brianlescargot wrote:

Anyone who has posted replies suggesting improving tyre fitting technique clearly hasn't had a go a fitting tyres onto these rims. I just bought a set from PX and spent all last night trying to fit tyres, new ones, old ones, various makes, heating them up, etc, etc. and no way is a tyre going on! 2 hours, sore hands and a broken Park Tool lever taking off the side I did manage to on back off again. Suggesting talc may be ok for an initial fit but is no good if you suffer a puncture out and about. I phoned PX in Edinburgh today and member of staff also confirmed the issue with these wheels and that their own shop mechanic had failed trying to fit 25c tyres on them. I got these as a great offer so maybe that's the reason why. I shall be arranging a return tomorrow though as they are as good as useless. PS I have fitted hundreds of tyres over the years and don't need to improve my technique!

I agree, sometimes it is beyond technique.

PS: Planet X is in Sheffield, or thereabout

minley1

Just a quick update on my Wheels, I was still having a real problem with the Vision wheels, so I looked at wheel options, was going to push the button on some Campagnolo Zondas, then I saw some from Swissside.
I bought their Heidi Wheelset, from their ebay store, I eventually got the tyres off the Visions, and low and behold they were fitted to the new Swisssides in 5 mins, using no tools!, so while there is certainly an element of technique, the Vision rims clearly are an issue.

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Planet X Pro Carbon by minley1, on Flickr

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Planet X Pro Carbon by minley1, on Flickr

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Planet X Pro Carbon by minley1, on Flickr

nicksun

A couple of friends have these wheels on their px's.
PX have admitted to a problem with the wheels and are replacing them with RS11's.
They were by all accounts quite helpful, so send an email explaining your issue.
Nick.

Moonbiker

Iv'e found new tyres are often hard to fit, but after a few puntures so they have being on & of the rim a few times they are alot easier to fit.

jf22901

I have had problems getting my gatorskin tyres onto both my Easton EA50 and new Campy Zonda wheels. In fact, I spent 40 minutes fitting them today, and now my hands are sore! I never knew about the "pushing the bead into the centre of the rim" technique though. Will definitely be giving that a try next time!

nicksun

Moonbiker, I can assure you that the wheels are the problem. We tried used tyres from conti, michelin and bontrager on these rims, without innertubes, and it was close to impossible.

thegreatdivide

ugo.santalucia wrote:

PS: Planet X is in Sheffield, or thereabout

http://www.planetx.co.uk/news/planet-x- ... r-business

ugo.santalucia

thegreatdivide wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

PS: Planet X is in Sheffield, or thereabout

http://www.planetx.co.uk/news/planet-x- ... r-business

Ah, I see... branching out!