Rear Cassette for the ALPS

reckless_rat

Hi guys- its the first outing to the alps and wondered what the best cassette ratio of 10 speed cassette would be? i was thinking 11-32t but i cant seem to find one any suggestions ?

DeVlaeminck

In most cases the biggest that will work with our setup. I use a 36*29 and that gives me a gear I'm comfortable with climbing the steeper ones at the end of a hard day though I wouldn't turn down another couple of teeth if it would have worked without extra expense. I know people that have got by with 39*25 but they are either extremely good amateurs or massively over geared.

flasher

12-30 on my Campag bike, worked fine and used the 30 on a few occasions, go with as big as you can 11-32 sounds good.

twgh

As long as the 11-32 will fit your rear derailleur go with that. I am doing the Maratona this year and whilst I am sure my 11-28 with a 50-34 will be fine I think I will be asking for a 32 at points. #spinningiswinning after all

reckless_rat

Im upgrading my setup from 8 speed at the same time so it should be fine :roll:

reckless_rat

twgh wrote:

#spinningiswinning after all

LegendLust

I bought a Miche Supertype cassette for my alps trips. They are individual sprockets so you can build any ratio you want. And they are superlight - 132gr.

They have also just recently brought out Shimano 11speed versions as well

maddog 2

well first off, if you run 10 speed Shimano, if you want a 11-32 then you'll need a Shimano MTB cassette or a SRAM road cassette. Biggest Shimano road cassette is Ultegra at 12-30.

secondly, 10spd road mechs are only officially rated to 28t. In practice, you can often get a 30t to work if you tweak the tension screw but don't count on it. I've just been working on a CAAD 10 frame and even with the tension screw on max the top jockey was rubbing on the 30t.

So, if you want to run 11-32 on 10speed (Shimano) then you'll need to either need to be lucky with your rear mech, or run a 9spd MTB mech. Or go 11speed.

littledove44

Make it even easier.

I have a Shimano Dyna-Sys Deore XT 11-34 10 speed on my bike. I have used it with 105 and Ultegra.

dodgy

I'm not sure what you're expecting from the alps, but most people I know who have never been are in complete fear over it. From my experience, the majority of Alpine cols/passes are consistently graded in the 6 to 8% range, maybe a bit more on hairpins (yes there are other exceptions).

I'm a terrible climber, but I get by on 50/34 and 11-28 and have no problem getting up Cat 1s and HCs using that.

British climbs can be way more difficult (I'm not talking about the comedy Box Hill 'climb' ;-) ).

sheffsimon

13/29 and 53/39 got me over croix der fer, galibier, telegraph, glandon and alpe d'huez last year reasonably comfortably. Didnt use the 29 sprocket very much, mainly 23/25/27 sprockets.

Camcycle1974

dodgy wrote:

I'm not sure what you're expecting from the alps, but most people I know who have never been are in complete fear over it. From my experience, the majority of Alpine cols/passes are consistently graded in the 6 to 8% range, maybe a bit more on hairpins (yes there are other exceptions).

I'm a terrible climber, but I get by on 50/34 and 11-28 and have no problem getting up Cat 1s and HCs using that.

British climbs can be way more difficult (I'm not talking about the comedy Box Hill 'climb' ;-) ).

Agree, my mate did "the struggle" yesterday on a standard compact and 11-28. It was tough but he made it. 25% in places and not short either.

flasher

dodgy wrote:

I'm not sure what you're expecting from the alps, but most people I know who have never been are in complete fear over it. From my experience, the majority of Alpine cols/passes are consistently graded in the 6 to 8% range, maybe a bit more on hairpins (yes there are other exceptions).

You're absolutely right the gradient isn't to be feared, however it's the distance that is, Alpe d'huez for instance at 13 km is longer than anything we could ever try in this country. When you've been climbing for an hour that big cassette comes in handy!

andy_wrx

Agreed.
I went to the Alps a few years ago and had 50/36 with 12-27 and I was overgeared.

It wasn't the steepness - I went over Hardknot and Wrynose on the Fred the following year with that gearing - it was the sheer length of some of the Alpine climbs : when you see a sign which says 7% for 15km it means 7% for 15km, not the steeper-bit-flatter-bit-steeper-bit-flatter-bit for a mile that we get in the UK.

For my personal strength at the time, 7% was too steep for me to spin 36x27 for 15km and so I was grinding at an uncomfortably low cadence, but 7% was too shallow a gradient to get out of the saddle for, certainly for 15km.

I'm a stronger rider now, but I'd want to go one gear lower by putting a 34 on the front and a 28 on the back : back then I should have perhaps had 2 gears lower with 34 x 30 or a triple with 30 x 27

YMMV of course, depending how strong a climber you are

reckless_rat

i have never cycled the alps but we have an apartment there for the winter (skiing) and summer climbing / walking holidays but never cycled untill this sept comming

DiscoBoy

maddog 2 wrote:

well first off, if you run 10 speed Shimano, if you want a 11-32 then you'll need a Shimano MTB cassette or a SRAM road cassette. Biggest Shimano road cassette is Ultegra at 12-30.

secondly, 10spd road mechs are only officially rated to 28t. In practice, you can often get a 30t to work if you tweak the tension screw but don't count on it. I've just been working on a CAAD 10 frame and even with the tension screw on max the top jockey was rubbing on the 30t.

So, if you want to run 11-32 on 10speed (Shimano) then you'll need to either need to be lucky with your rear mech, or run a 9spd MTB mech. Or go 11speed.

I am the proud owner of a 105 5700 cassette which is 11-32. It is sitting staying shiny in a box, but it would work with my 105 long cage derailleur.

I think they may be OEM only, though.

Miles253

Well I did Galibier, D'Huez, Duex Alp, D'Ornon, Croix De Foix with a lowest of 39/25 , now it wasn't pleasant at points but I did D'Huez in an hour. Mind over matter. I would like to try again with a larger block though, see if I'm faster or slower.

littledove44

It's all very well comparing numbers like "I can do it on 25", but the real question is how strong are you and how fast do you want to pedal. (Actually two questions).

One man's 28 is another's 32.



Personally, I am happy with my 34/27 setup for hills up to 6%, even long ones.
For over 10% I prefer my 34/34 setup. I seldom use the 34 except when I am cream crackered.
Over 20% I can stand up with the 34 if need be.

herzog

littledove44 wrote:

It's all very well comparing numbers like "I can do it on 25", but the real question is how strong are you and how fast do you want to pedal. (Actually two questions).

One man's 28 is another's 32.

Agree - I live with the Alps on my doorstep (in a manner of speaking) and use a compact/28T combination; this works for me. If in doubt get the biggest rear cassette your bike could accommodate - you don't have to use it. There's nothing like the feeling of being half way round an Alpine route knowing you're massively under-geared...not pleasant.

FatTed

You don't need an 11 speed sprocket, if that helps, 12/13 would be fine

rolf_f

andy_wrx wrote:

when you see a sign which says 7% for 15km it means 7% for 15km, not the steeper-bit-flatter-bit-steeper-bit-flatter-bit for a mile that we get in the UK.

No, it's an average gradient like anywhere else - the gradient can vary on Alpine passes just as it does here. 7% for 15km means it might be 10% for part of it and 5% for another part of it. Even the 1km markers are averages.

7% is pretty manageable IME (6% is the best news you had all day, 8% is mildly irritating, 9% pretty depressing and 10% makes you wonder why you are here!). You tend to get depressed when you see a 10% marker for the next km and know that there are another 10 markers to go and any one of them or all of them could also be 10%.

I found 34-29 worked fine for me as a lowest gear. Generally, with that combination I was more or less able to keep to a constant cadence for most of the time which suggests it wasn't far off. One thing to remember is that it is not just about the gradient but the air temperature as well. I found the Colombiere tough because of the heat more than the gradient.

FatTed wrote:

You don't need an 11 speed sprocket, if that helps, 12/13 would be fine

But it is a waste not to. If there is one place where an 11 tooth is worth having it is the Alps. I made up a Frankencassette - 11-29 for the Alps. I just split an 11-25 and a 13-29 in the middle and paired it with a medium cage cassette. There were plenty of places where I got extra pace on the descents because of that sprocket. You don't go to the Alps to obsess about gaps in the cassette when you are riding on the flat bits between the climbs!

rc856

Sorry for the hijack...but with regards to the Miche Supertype, where can you actually get one in the ratio of your choosing? Is it a direct order from Miche?
Do they change smoothly with Campag mechs and chain?
This seems like a good alternative (weight/cost) to a Record cassette.

Cheers

buckmulligan

RC856 wrote:

Sorry for the hijack...but with regards to the Miche Supertype, where can you actually get one in the ratio of your choosing? Is it a direct order from Miche?
Do they change smoothly with Campag mechs and chain?
This seems like a good alternative (weight/cost) to a Record cassette.

Cheers

I'm not sure you can, I think you'd have to buy two cassettes with all the rings that you want and then mix-and-match them.

That's a very interesting point about the franken-cassette Rolf.

I'm off to the alps in the summer too and currently running a 12-27 and thinking of switching over to a 12-30 cassette (assuming it fits, but that's another thread); they're all the same ratios, except I'd lose a 16T ring in the middle of the pack and gain an extra bailout gear. Seemed like a no brainer to me, but maybe I should consider making my own cassette!

LegendLust

RC856 wrote:

Sorry for the hijack...but with regards to the Miche Supertype, where can you actually get one in the ratio of your choosing? Is it a direct order from Miche?
Do they change smoothly with Campag mechs and chain?
This seems like a good alternative (weight/cost) to a Record cassette.

Cheers

Yes they work well with Campag, not as smooth as a full campag drivetrain, but still good. They're made of special coated Ergal. I wouldn't use one day in day out, but as a race day or special occasion cassette it's great.

Get in touch with Chicken Cycles, they are the Miche UK distributor. A very specific ratio would be a special order

LegendLust

BuckMulligan wrote:

RC856 wrote:

Sorry for the hijack...but with regards to the Miche Supertype, where can you actually get one in the ratio of your choosing? Is it a direct order from Miche?
Do they change smoothly with Campag mechs and chain?
This seems like a good alternative (weight/cost) to a Record cassette.

Cheers

I'm not sure you can, I think you'd have to buy two cassettes with all the rings that you want and then mix-and-match them.

That's a very interesting point about the franken-cassette Rolf.

I'm off to the alps in the summer too and currently running a 12-27 and thinking of switching over to a 12-30 cassette (assuming it fits, but that's another thread); they're all the same ratios, except I'd lose a 16T ring in the middle of the pack and gain an extra bailout gear. Seemed like a no brainer to me, but maybe I should consider making my own cassette!

All Miche cassettes are individual sprockets so can be built up as any ratio

maddog 2

DiscoBoy wrote:

I am the proud owner of a 105 5700 cassette which is 11-32. It is sitting staying shiny in a box, but it would work with my 105 long cage derailleur.I think they may be OEM only, though.

It's not 105. From Shimano website:
http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/con ... ype-..html
As you say, it could be some OE spec or just a mtb cassette.

And long cage doesn't mean it can handle bigger sprockets. It just means it can handle a bigger range, from lowest to highest gear. They are still only rated to 28t officially.

rafletcher

andy_wrx wrote:

Agreed.
: when you see a sign which says 7% for 15km it means 7% for 15km, not the steeper-bit-flatter-bit-steeper-bit-flatter-bit for a mile that we get in the UK.

And also it sometimes means that there is a flat bit around 15km ahead, then after that you see another sign giving you 8% for the next 10km.

rafletcher

LegendLust wrote:

RC856 wrote:

Sorry for the hijack...but with regards to the Miche Supertype, where can you actually get one in the ratio of your choosing? Is it a direct order from Miche?
Do they change smoothly with Campag mechs and chain?
This seems like a good alternative (weight/cost) to a Record cassette.

Cheers

Yes they work well with Campag, not as smooth as a full campag drivetrain, but still good. They're made of special coated Ergal. I wouldn't use one day in day out, but as a race day or special occasion cassette it's great.

Get in touch with Chicken Cycles, they are the Miche UK distributor. A very specific ratio would be a special order

Or Malcolm at the cycleclinic (http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk/)- Chicken are distributors and it's easier sometimes to deal with a retailer. Malcolm does good prices, but you'll probably have to wait 3-4 weeks for the sprockets to arrive as Miche are a bit slow.

rc856

rafletcher wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

RC856 wrote:

Sorry for the hijack...but with regards to the Miche Supertype, where can you actually get one in the ratio of your choosing? Is it a direct order from Miche?
Do they change smoothly with Campag mechs and chain?
This seems like a good alternative (weight/cost) to a Record cassette.

Cheers

Yes they work well with Campag, not as smooth as a full campag drivetrain, but still good. They're made of special coated Ergal. I wouldn't use one day in day out, but as a race day or special occasion cassette it's great.

Get in touch with Chicken Cycles, they are the Miche UK distributor. A very specific ratio would be a special order

Or Malcolm at the cycleclinic (http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk/)- Chicken are distributors and it's easier sometimes to deal with a retailer. Malcolm does good prices, but you'll probably have to wait 3-4 weeks for the sprockets to arrive as Miche are a bit slow.

Cheers

shmooster

maddog 2 wrote:

DiscoBoy wrote:

I am the proud owner of a 105 5700 cassette which is 11-32. It is sitting staying shiny in a box, but it would work with my 105 long cage derailleur.I think they may be OEM only, though.

It's not 105. From Shimano website:
http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/con ... ype-..html
As you say, it could be some OE spec or just a mtb cassette.

And long cage doesn't mean it can handle bigger sprockets. It just means it can handle a bigger range, from lowest to highest gear. They are still only rated to 28t officially.

5701 short cage handles up to 30t, 5701 long cage up to 32t. This is from the CRC website and I've used them both successfully (short cage with 30T ultegra, long cage with 32T MTB cassette). I couldn't find 5701 info on Shimanos site

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... -prod85966

DiscoBoy

maddog 2 wrote:

DiscoBoy wrote:

I am the proud owner of a 105 5700 cassette which is 11-32. It is sitting staying shiny in a box, but it would work with my 105 long cage derailleur.I think they may be OEM only, though.

It's not 105. From Shimano website:
http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/con ... ype-..html
As you say, it could be some OE spec or just a mtb cassette.

And long cage doesn't mean it can handle bigger sprockets. It just means it can handle a bigger range, from lowest to highest gear. They are still only rated to 28t officially.

I was convinced that it said 105 on the lockring, but just checked and it is a: CS HG81 10. So I stand corrected.
http://www.rosebikes.com/article/shiman ... aid:516019

Which makes it pretty cheeky that BMC advertised it as a 105 cassette! http://www.bmc-racing.com/int-en/bikes/ ... /sl01/105/

That's without getting into the bizzare logic behind fitting a carbon bike with quite an aggressive geometry with a compact and an 11-32...