down to 3 bikes - please help

BikeAndEarly

Hi everyone

I am new to the forum and to cycling.

I am looking at purchasing a more relaxed road bike and here are the nominations.
1. Specialized Roubaix SL4 Comp
2. Focus Cayo Evo 1.0
3. Trek Domane 5.2

I have not been on the Focus and do not understand how it can be £600 pounds less than the equivalent Trek Domane (5.9). Not only is it full Ultegra 6800 but it is Di2. The wheels do not seem to be that cheap relative to the others and that leaves the frame and finishing kit. Odd as there is no real value in the bike world considering the huge markup on everything. Bike is 2900 pounds.

I liked the Specialized and the Trek. The Specialized has an FSA crankset and Axis (Tektro) callipers. But the SL4 frame is nice. This is 2200 pounds

The Trek is full ultegra but is the most comfortable. The bike is 2800 pounds.

The Focus does not look as much of a comfort bike as it has straight forks and a stiff looking rear triangle.

Since all this is academic as nobody knows the actual quality of the frame they are getting unless they are pro and can induce/produce some tangible flex then how does one decide on a bike? (please do not state the obvious as I am planning on riding the Focus too).

What I would appreciate is your feedback on the crankset and generally the prices. I would love to hear from owners of these bikes/

Thank you all for taking the time to read and helpfully answer these questions.

Have a lovely day

Sawilson

Get the Spesh cus it's red, it looks far better in the flesh than the pics.
Got em to swap the brakes for Ultegras FOC when I got mine.
The reason it's got an FSA crank is because it's got a BB30 bottom bracket (Some controversy on these, as some people have had issues with creaking etc, they are fitted to lots of other makes as well, mines been fine to be fair)
The only way to fit an Ultegra one is to use a conversion kit.
I luv mine, very cormfortable, but still stiff where required, can ride all day with no issues, I have slammed the stem though as a little too upright, but now its fits perfectly.
The only upgrade so far is to swap the dodgy rubber for some GP4000s.
Looked at the Domane but the one I was looking at still had external cabling, easier to replace but not as pretty.
Best to ride all three and let your bum decide
Happy riding.

BikeAndEarly

Swailson thank you sir. To the point and helpful.

I have knocked 200 off the price of the Specialized through some promotional offer and I am negotiating hard for them to fit the Ultegra 6800 brakes, Praxis Works chainrings on the FSA crank and potentially do something about the rubber like you suggested. They will do 50% off those components but I am talking to 3 shops to see what can be had. All I say is that the country is obsessed with cycling (not a bad thing) and the weather (thankfully) has been too good and makes the negotiation process difficult. I am also too late to the game to buy 2013 models as the popular sizes are all gone.

The bearing issue is not a real issue for most cyclists and it can be upgraded within the FSA family of cranksets but I would not do that for a while considering I am roughly speaking about 1/436 the cyclist of Fabian Cancellara.

Cheers

Garry H

I'd get the cayo or the domane. I think the roubaix looks awful with all the lumpy bits.

Grill

BikeAndEarly wrote:

Swailson thank you sir. To the point and helpful.

I have knocked 200 off the price of the Specialized through some promotional offer and I am negotiating hard for them to fit the Ultegra 6800 brakes, Praxis Works chainrings on the FSA crank and potentially do something about the rubber like you suggested. They will do 50% off those components but I am talking to 3 shops to see what can be had. All I say is that the country is obsessed with cycling (not a bad thing) and the weather (thankfully) has been too good and makes the negotiation process difficult. I am also too late to the game to buy 2013 models as the popular sizes are all gone.

The bearing issue is not a real issue for most cyclists and it can be upgraded within the FSA family of cranksets but I would not do that for a while considering I am roughly speaking about 1/436 the cyclist of Fabian Cancellara.

Cheers

If you can get 6800 brakes (the ones fitted are atrocious) and Praxis rings then it sounds like a good deal.

BikeAndEarly

Thank you Grill. yes the axis brakes are a letdown. the chainrings will do most of the good stuff because I think Praxis uses similar treatments to the metal just like Shimano does on the Ultegra crankset components.

I believe if everything works at well and my charity based events inspire me to do more then I would invest in a decent set of wheels and rubber which will make the most significant difference.

Once again thank you and happy cycling

rokt

What about the 2013 Focus Cayo Evo 1. Will spec'd and if you like campagnolo....it comes with Chorus.

A guy in the club I sometimes ride with got one from Peak Cycle Sport recently and he got a really good
deal on it, but he didn't say what and I didn't like asking.

Could be worth a look if it floats your boat.....

DKay

I've got a 2013 Cayo Evo fitted with 6700 Ultegra and think it's a great bike. Torsionally very stiff through the BB and headtube, but has a nice degree of compliance and it rides really smooth. It's not as plush as the Domane (no idea about the Roubaix), but it has more of a racy slant to it with geometry which is quite a bit more aggressive (smaller headtube, shorter chainstays). A riding buddy has a 2013 Cayo Evo 2.0 with Di2 and he loves his bike too. I also have a friend who has a 2013 Domane 4.3 and he really rates it. For our terrible roads, it's a great choice. I just don't plain like the Roubaix, although I've never ridden one!

My bike came with the same Fulcrum 6.5 wheels as the current 1.0 and they are actually not that bad and make decent winter/training wheels (they are 2013 Fulcrum 7s with better hub seals). A swap to a lighter wheelset makes a big difference to the way the bike rides though and it really comes alive. Personally, I think the combination of a sub 1kg race proven frame, decent finishing kit, ok wheels and full 6800 Di2 makes the Cayo 1.0 a very appealing combination.

freefall_junkie

Garry H wrote:

I'd get the cayo or the domane. I think the roubaix looks awful with all the lumpy bits.

Agree with that - I think the Roubaix looks a bit ungainly. I test rode a Cayo Evo and a Domane and liked them both. The Cayo is definitely the more sporty of the two - the Domane has a pretty long head tube with a more upright riding position. The Madone is probably a more direct competitor for the Cayo rather than the Domane.

BikeAndEarly

Gents I think you are all spot on.

Bikes like the Lapierre Sensium 400 and Focus Cayo Evo are 'plusher' but yet retain quite an aggressive geometry and more stiffness and hence the thick rear triangle and non-bendy forks in the front. They are more of a Trek Madone type of bike than a Roubaix or Domane. A lot of people are fed up hearing the words 'Specialized Roubaix' but they do offer very good customer service, non-hassle warranty and keep frames in stock in the UK A friend of mine had a Scott CR1, loved it, cracked it and he went through a lot of hurt before they gave him a refund.

I liked the Roubaix and it is not overpriced (all relative in life!) compared to BMC and it is better put together than a FUJI.
I think despite the hideous stickers the Giant Defy Advanced 1 is very good because it is similar money but full Ultegra 6800. At 2 grand (or there about) the wheels will be average but frankly I must exercise some level of control with the wallet (at least initially) and genuinely accept that I am not experienced enough to justify spending more.

I honestly appreciate the advice you have all given me.
P.S I like the FOCUS bike a lot and might pop over to Sigma Sports to try the Cayo EVO 1.
Again I cannot make up my mind as to whether the FOCUS is simply better value or is cutting corners to be able to offer full Di2 when other competitors do not at £2900

What do you think? Is a lof of emphasis placed on this new-age (not really) Endurance bikes such as the Domane etc that people pay for the comfort? Or is somehow the frame etc of lower quality/design that the Trek and Specialized?

thank you very much once again

Grill

BikeAndEarly wrote:

Thank you Grill. yes the axis brakes are a letdown. the chainrings will do most of the good stuff because I think Praxis uses similar treatments to the metal just like Shimano does on the Ultegra crankset components.

I believe if everything works at well and my charity based events inspire me to do more then I would invest in a decent set of wheels and rubber which will make the most significant difference.

Once again thank you and happy cycling

Praxis rings are cold-forged as are DA rings. Ultegra rings are not.

DKay

BikeAndEarly wrote:

P.S I like the FOCUS bike a lot and might pop over to Sigma Sports to try the Cayo EVO 1.
Again I cannot make up my mind as to whether the FOCUS is simply better value or is cutting corners to be able to offer full Di2 when other competitors do not at £2900

What do you think? Is a lof of emphasis placed on this new-age (not really) Endurance bikes such as the Domane etc that people pay for the comfort? Or is somehow the frame etc of lower quality/design that the Trek and Specialized?

thank you very much once again

I don't think the Cayo cuts corners anywhere. It's a properly designed, pro-peloton race proven and UCI certified frame if that's what your concerns are. It's also a fair bit lighter too. The Trek and Spec frames are more trick, but not any higher quality. The only way to find out which you prefer, is to test ride your choices.

You won't be disappointed with the ride of the Cayo though.

styxd

The Roubaix looks fucking awful, get any of the other two. The Domane looks decent.

BikeAndEarly

Oh guys what have you done?

Look at me now; an emotional wreck!

Ok I am trying out the Cayo (Sigma Sports do not let you take the bike out you see). They fit the bike on the turbo trainer etc.

I tried the Roubaix and a friend of mine has the Domane. As I said the only reason I am not looking into other brands such as Italian-ish brands and others is the warranty period and reputation.

However, I do trust the Germans for quality (sorry to stereotype) and hence I will check to see whether the geometry does not put me off and ask Sigma about the warranty on the Focus bikes

Thanks gents

mikeabanks

I have a Cayo evo 5.0 - love it

ai_1

I rode last years Focus Cayo EVO 4.0 (Ultegra 6700 build) as a hire bike in Tenerife last November and I liked it. It's fairly light, looks good and has decent hardware (except I didn't really like the seatpost).
This years frame is identical except for the paint if I'm not mistaken but the builds are different. In terms of geometry i think the CAYO Evo frames are quite aggressive. If I recall correctly my 54 size frame had a 135mm headtube which is a lot lower than I'm used to so I had a few spacers in there. I don't think I'd call it a "comfortable" bike but I wouldn't call it uncomfortable either. If you don't mind flipping the stem you 'll be reasonably upright.

Also the Focus has no special shock absorbing features I'm aware of unlike the Domane's seatube/toptube junction and the Roubaix's zertz inserts but to be honest "comfort" surely comes primarily from the choice and setup of tyres and saddle anyway. I think frame "compliance" perhaps gets more attention than it warrants.

Incidentally, since you mention German engineering: While I liked the Cayo, my new bike is going to be a Canyon CF SL 9.0 - any day now! It's better spec for the price and should be a better fit for me (assuming my measurements and calculations have been correct!), it's also lighter and mine's coming with a VLCS 2.0 comfort saddlepost. Cost is similar to the Cayo EVO 2.0 and it comes in over 1kg lighter with full Ultegra. On the downside - you're buying from the pictures with no test ride unless you know someone who's already got one and you'll proabably have a bit of a wait for delivery.

BikeAndEarly

very good point. I was told the same thing about the Lapierre Sensium range. good value but the design is for sheer power transfer as opposed to making allowances for bumps......

I hate the fact that I am so risk averse but because of the price of these bikes the motivators to keep you riding for a long time are comfort, build quality, engineering and certainly aftermarket care. So the major brands are very strong to non-techy, impatient people such as myself.

Thank you

ai_1

Just curious. Since you say you're new to cycling and rather risk averse, I would suggest you may not need to spend this much. I'd be inclined to suggest going for a bike closer to the £1k mark. You can get very nice bikes for around £1k that functionally (gear function and choice, reliability, etc) are just as good as more expensive bikes. They'll be a little heavier alright but not enough that it should put you off. If you go that route you'll be able to test the waters with a much smaller outlay and if you decide cycling is definitely your thing you'll know exactly what you want when it comes to buying a second bike. The first bike can always be sold on or kept as a back-up or winter/wet weather bike.

BikeAndEarly

Ai_1 will you take "only the best will do, gadget afficionado, bored" as answers to why I am not going for a cheaper bike? I might as well tell you the truth

I know the right thing to do is to buy something more sensible and ride it through the summer and enjoy it but having ridden on a Shimano Claris Specialized Secteur apparently worth £650 I was put off! the gears were plastic, things rattled, the brakes were pretty much non-existent but the frame was decent and with the triple chainset I could maintain a nice average speed.

I think Shimano 105 would be the right figure but they seem to be 300 quid less that full Ultegra and then your brain tells you to opt up front for quality etc. Did I mention I am very good with excuses. Pro some would say

ai_1

BikeAndEarly wrote:

Ai_1 will you take "only the best will do, gadget afficionado, bored" as answers to why I am not going for a cheaper bike? I might as well tell you the truth

I know the right thing to do is to buy something more sensible and ride it through the summer and enjoy it but having ridden on a Shimano Claris Specialized Secteur apparently worth £650 I was put off! the gears were plastic, things rattled, the brakes were pretty much non-existent but the frame was decent and with the triple chainset I could maintain a nice average speed.

I think Shimano 105 would be the right figure but they seem to be 300 quid less that full Ultegra and then your brain tells you to opt up front for quality etc. Did I mention I am very good with excuses. Pro some would say

No, sorry can't take that answer!
If only the best will do then none of the bikes you've listed will do. You'll be needing full Dura-Ace, Red or Super Record on a >£7k superbike.

...anyway, if you're fixed on Ultegra level that's fine, it just doesn't fit your risk averse policy as a first bike IMO!
I would just point out that while Tiagra and 105 are cheaper they're not necessarily lower quality. Primarily you're paying for weight reduction. Reducing weight means more complex machining, more expensive materials, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean better reliability or functionality. I think Tiagra and 105 are excellent groupsets. I rode the last version of Tiagra (9sp) for 3 years and have also ridden Ultegra 6700. There was no significant and obvious difference in "quality". The Ultegra weighs less and had hidden cables and 10 speeds before 105 or Tiagra but for a new cyclist there's nothing plasticy or distinctly inferior about the later. They're no more likely to rattle or fail than Ultegra. I haven't tried 2300, Claris or Sora.
Rattles can occur on any bike and are probably more an indication of bad assembly/setup or maintenance than a reflection of the quality of the bike. A £10k superbike will rattle if you leave bits hanging loose!

Having said all that I'm getting Ultegra 6800 myself and i'm not really trying to talk you out of your planned purchase. Just checking you've considered the alternatives.

Mad_Malx

mikeabanks wrote:

I have a Cayo evo 5.0 - love it

+1

I have the 2013, which has less stiff forks than the newer or higher spec (1.0, 2.0, 3.0) models. Pretty sure it's the same frame though.

I don't find it particularly aggressive, and I'm a none-too flexible 50 something who only got into road about 5 years ago. Compared with my alu Giant SCR, using the same wheels and tyres, the rear triangle soaks up all the road buzz.

DKay

Ai_1 wrote:

...anyway, if you're fixed on Ultegra level that's fine, it just doesn't fit your risk averse policy as a first bike IMO!
I would just point out that while Tiagra and 105 are cheaper they're not necessarily lower quality. Primarily you're paying for weight reduction. Reducing weight means more complex machining, more expensive materials, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean better reliability or functionality. I think Tiagra and 105 are excellent groupsets. I rode the last version of Tiagra (9sp) for 3 years and have also ridden Ultegra 6700. There was no significant and obvious difference in "quality".

The new 6800 Ultegra is supposed to be a useful step up in functionality over 5700 and 6700.

BikeAndEarly

Thanks everyone

I have arranged to try out the Focus Cayo range and will make the decision. Today a colleague brought over a Planet X bike with carbon frame and full Ultegra gear. Beats everyone else on price by miles! yes maybe the frame is not as well engineered but my word 1000 pound saving is not to be sniffed at!

I fully admit this is what happens when you are new to something. You (I) cannot decide on what is important and what is not.

I mean the confidence of buying from a shop and with warranty is great but the question is. is it 1000 pounds great?

Cheers for sharing your thoughts, opinions. I appreciate it

ai_1

BikeAndEarly wrote:

...I mean the confidence of buying from a shop and with warranty is great but the question is. is it 1000 pounds great?...

Yep, it's a tough one! If you're fairly confident you can set up the bike it's hard to pass up the value for money of some of the direct to customer options like Ribble, Planet X, Rose and Canyon. I getthe impression from what I read that Ribble and Planet X may be a bit of a compromise on the frame - I may be wrong, and it's difficult to get much feedback about Rose although everything I've heard has been positive. Canyon seem like a pretty safe choice for a top quality frame and great spec at a very good price. Not quite as good on value as they used to be up to around 2012 but they still easily beat most competition. Thus my choice!

I've ridden none of the 3 brands!

I know it's not what you're after but I've a friend who's done some sportives on his hybrid and wants to start cycling more seriously. He hadn't decided how much he was willing to spend so my recommendation was either a Canyon Roadlite (105 build for £90 or full Ultegra for £1200) or the Ultimate CF SL 9.0 if he wanted to spend a bit more and given that he's done a bit and knows he's going to stick with it.

vorsprung

Here are some more suggestions

• Volagi Liscio - like a Roubaix but with a funkier rear "suspension" and disk brakes
• Eddy Merckx EMX1 - has a very relaxed position, stiffer than a Roubaix. Less tyre clearance though
• Look 566 - the Look "sportif" bike
• Hewitt Alpine - not such a big headtube but apparently will take bigger tyres
• Bianchi Infinito - It's Italian and therefore stylish. I don't believe this model is actually made in Italy however

DKay

FFS, we could post a recommendation from every single manufacturer out there. Test ride the Cayo first and if it floats your boat, then buy it. If not, THEN start looking around for something else. You could spend months umming and erring, but you have to call a stop at some point or you'll miss the summer or you'd be better of waiting for the 2015 bikes to come out.

BikeAndEarly

Indeed. It is not like I am going in blind. All these bikes are very good and will have their positives and negatives. It is a matter of trying out enough of them. I have taken every comment on board and will simply try out a few more bikes like the Cayo and the Defy.

As far as the 'exotics' listed above I must say that if they are difficult to find online then I can deduce that parts etc will be difficult to source afterwards as well.

The largest shops in my area cover Trek, Giant and Specialized more than anything else. The Focus bikes are covered near a friend's house who I visit often so I can still feel confident on post-sale service.

The only spanner in the works are things like Ribble and Planet X because being my first bike I feel it would soften the impact if I end up not sticking to cycling.

Oh well. Must man up and make a decision

Enjoy the beautiful weather everyone

ai_1

BikeAndEarly wrote:

....The largest shops in my area cover Trek, Giant and Specialized more than anything else. The Focus bikes are covered near a friend's house who I visit often so I can still feel confident on post-sale service....

It doesn't really matter what shop you go to for spares or servicing later. The vast majority of bike parts are not brand specific. The only reason you'd normally need to go back to the dealer of a specific brand would be for warranty issues which are fairly unlikely.
As long as you can get to the shop for a look at the bike, a sit on it and ideally a test ride, I think that's all that really matters. You can't typically do that with Ribble, Planet X, Canyon or Rose which is the main compromise.

BikeAndEarly

last question

what is more important a. The crankset or b. the wheelset?

I think (humble conjecture) the wheels will make the biggest difference on a bike. So I am thinking of getting the Specialized Roubaix SL4 Comp and asking the dealer to put on the Ultegra 6800 wheelset. I can then sell the Fulcrum S5 wheels unused. The dealer will also put on the ultegra 6800 brakes and I can then sell the AXIS brakes.

Down the road I could change the chainrings on the FSA Gossamer Pro crank for weight and shift quality.

ai_1

I would prioritise the groupset over the wheels if you're not averse to further purchases down the road.
Stock wheels will be fine and later if you want new wheels you can decide between deep rims for TTs or triathlons, lightweight wheels for the hills or whatever. The stock wheels ate unlikely to go to waste. You may want cheaper, sturdier wheels for winter riding or a turbo training specific rear etc. Or you can just leave a different ratio cassette on the old rear wheel for whem you're going to ride unusually flat or hilly terrain.

The groupset is essentially fit and forget and is also more integral to the bike but you'll likely change your wheel needs and preferences over time.

charlie_potatoes

Ai_1 wrote:

I would prioritise the groupset over the wheels if you're not averse to further purchases down the road.
Stock wheels will be fine and later if you want new wheels you can decide between deep rims for TTs or triathlons, lightweight wheels for the hills or whatever. The stock wheels ate unlikely to go to waste. You may want cheaper, sturdier wheels for winter riding or a turbo training specific rear etc. Or you can just leave a different ratio cassette on the old rear wheel for whem you're going to ride unusually flat or hilly terrain.

The groupset is essentially fit and forget and is also more integral to the bike but you'll likely change your wheel needs and preferences over time.

+1