Early morning hydration

PerformingMonkey

My training has suffered this last week or so due to feeling very dehydrated during my morning training, to the point where I have had to stop due to headaches.

I train most mornings either at the gym, in the pool or on the bike for up to an hour. I have time for a quick bowl of cereal and a glass (half pint) of water with a Berroca in it before I start (followed by half hour drive to training).

If I drink lots the night before I am up a couple of times in the night to use the loo and just feel knackered the next day.

Any advice how I can improve upon this current situation. I am drinking squash or High5 Zero as I train in the morning.

I am mid 20's, good level of fitness, no special diet. I also train for 1-2 hours 3-4 evenings a week.

markhewitt1978

Why are you driving for half an hour to go ride a bike at a gym? Madness I tell you.

Tom Dean

Cup of tea?

PerformingMonkey

Thanks MH, glad that is what you took from my post!!!

Clarification, the 30 min drive is only for the gym or swim. It is a 30 second walk to my garage to get my bike.

JayKosta

What other symptoms do you experience?
Decrease (or increase) in amount of sweat? Dry mouth? Does your shirt show 'salt stains'?
Have you increased the frequency or intensity of your training?

The amount of food and drink that you mention seems adequate, so hydration might not be the problem.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

meanredspider

Yes - I was immediately struck by how this seemed a bit unusual. To stop needing to wake up in the night, really take your time drinking before bed. If you glug a pint of water, for instance, it will go straight through you.
If the symptoms persist, you might want to chat to your GP about them

hypster

I never eat anything less than three hours before I ride/train and usually just have a cup of coffee about half hour before I leave.

This explains why:

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... ge-section

Stalin

PerformingMonkey wrote:

My training has suffered this last week or so due to feeling very dehydrated during my morning training, to the point where I have had to stop due to headaches.

I train most mornings either at the gym, in the pool or on the bike for up to an hour. I have time for a quick bowl of cereal and a glass (half pint) of water with a Berroca in it before I start (followed by half hour drive to training).

If I drink lots the night before I am up a couple of times in the night to use the loo and just feel knackered the next day.

Any advice how I can improve upon this current situation. I am drinking squash or High5 Zero as I train in the morning.

I am mid 20's, good level of fitness, no special diet. I also train for 1-2 hours 3-4 evenings a week.

If you are getting up in the night to pi55 you are not dehydrated.

meanredspider

hypster wrote:

I never eat anything less than three hours before I ride/train and usually just have a cup of coffee about half hour before I leave.

This explains why:

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... ge-section

Interesting that the same series of articles says about taking on electrolytes and calories in your drinks.

I think if you have the luxury of not eating too soon before a ride, that's OK but, if you're setting of at a reasonable 8am, that means eating before 5am. If you're looking to avoid insulin kicking in, then eating low GI will do the trick. I measured my blood glucose for a while (as a non-diabetic but working for a blood glucose monitor company) and it was interesting to see what your blood glucose does in response to exercise. Porridge I found was perfect - possibly not surprising that Team Sky carry it with them to stage races.

hypster

meanredspider wrote:

hypster wrote:

I never eat anything less than three hours before I ride/train and usually just have a cup of coffee about half hour before I leave.

This explains why:

http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... ge-section

Interesting that the same series of articles says about taking on electrolytes and calories in your drinks.

I think if you have the luxury of not eating too soon before a ride, that's OK but, if you're setting of at a reasonable 8am, that means eating before 5am. If you're looking to avoid insulin kicking in, then eating low GI will do the trick. I measured my blood glucose for a while (as a non-diabetic but working for a blood glucose monitor company) and it was interesting to see what your blood glucose does in response to exercise. Porridge I found was perfect - possibly not surprising that Team Sky carry it with them to stage races.

The OP was talking about eating 30 minutes before training. Do you really think that a bowl of porridge, even low GI as it is, is going to do anyone any good when only training for less than an hour? Please suggest something helpful rather than just introducing a totally unrelated topic such as electrolytes please.

meanredspider

hypster wrote:

The OP was talking about eating 30 minutes before training. Do you really think that a bowl of porridge, even low GI as it is, is going to do anyone any good when only training for less than an hour? Please suggest something helpful rather than just introducing a totally unrelated topic such as electrolytes please.

The OP is talking about feeling dehydrated and, in particular, only recently. Electrolytes are probably far more relevant than suggesting eating 3 hours before an early training session. I'm not sure how that relates to his issue.

I'm actually concerned that there might be an underlying issue. At best, I think the OP should be solving the problem before going to bed rather than in the morning.

Stalin

meanredspider wrote:

hypster wrote:

The OP was talking about eating 30 minutes before training. Do you really think that a bowl of porridge, even low GI as it is, is going to do anyone any good when only training for less than an hour? Please suggest something helpful rather than just introducing a totally unrelated topic such as electrolytes please.

The OP is talking about feeling dehydrated and, in particular, only recently. Electrolytes are probably far more relevant than suggesting eating 3 hours before an early training session. I'm not sure how that relates to his issue.

I'm actually concerned that there might be an underlying issue. At best, I think the OP should be solving the problem before going to bed rather than in the morning.

If OP is getting up in the night to urinate then I doubt he is dehydrated. Often people make the assumption they are dehydrated, When in fact they are run down tired and have not recovered from training.

I agree with the above, the OP might consider looking at his diet through the rest of the day up until bed time.

Electrolytes are in real food, electrolytes, salt, is in massive quantities in a normal western diet, I doubt he is short of electrolytes.

The whole post from the OP smacks of someone brainwashed by sports drinks companies into believing he is permanently dehydrated and short of electrolytes.

My advice is eat a proper balanced diet containing carbs, fats and protein. Eat real food. Replace any carb and electrolyte drinks with plain water. Allow thirst to do the job it does for every mammal on earth and did do for humans until about 1981. Stop taking drinks which contain caffeine etc.

If you are feeling dehydrated and tired and washed out you might consider some rest and recovery. Drinking so much liquid you have to wake up in the night to urinate is not the best way to get adequate rest and recovery.

If a rest does not solve your problems, visit GP and ask for blood test etc. you could even ask for an electrolyte test.

I wish people would stop obsessing with electrolytes. It is a scientific/ marketing term for salt. There is already excessive salt in the average western diet, you don't need to keep adding more to your diet via sports drinks.

The sports drink companies have huge advertising budgets with which to brainwash people, we don't need people on forums doing their job for them as well.

meanredspider

Stalin wrote:

I wish people would stop obsessing with electrolytes. It is a scientific/ marketing term for salt. There is already excessive salt in the average western diet, you don't need to keep adding more to your diet via sports drinks.

Have you actually looked at the ingredients of Zero tabs? "Salt" is NaCl. There is NONE in Zero tabs. I'm not sure who has been brainwashed here.

You can get dehydrated over night. Anybody who has woken up with a hangover is. Same goes for diabetes. I expect there are a few other causes - especially where the body is trying to flush out the system.

Stalin

meanredspider wrote:

Stalin wrote:

I wish people would stop obsessing with electrolytes. It is a scientific/ marketing term for salt. There is already excessive salt in the average western diet, you don't need to keep adding more to your diet via sports drinks.

Have you actually looked at the ingredients of Zero tabs? "Salt" is NaCl. There is NONE in Zero tabs. I'm not sure who has been brainwashed here.

You can get dehydrated over night. Anybody who has woken up with a hangover is. Same goes for diabetes. I expect there are a few other causes - especially where the body is trying to flush out the system.

High 5 Zero Tabs contain mostly sodium bicarbonate, which is cheap baking powder. The Sodium content is 37.5 mg per ml.

Which zero tabs are you talking about? Are they sodium free?

You shouldn't take much sodium bicarbonate, it can cause head aches.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... 82001.html


Sodium when written on food labels is just another way of talking about the salt content of food.

charlie_potatoes

Stalin wrote:

High 5 Zero Tabs contain sodium bicarbonate, which is cheap baking powder.

When you say 'Cheap baking powder'....

Do you mean ordinary baking powder or that they use a low grade baking powder?
Or do you mean that the 'cheap baking powder' is cheap in relation to table salt?

Stalin

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Stalin wrote:

High 5 Zero Tabs contain sodium bicarbonate, which is cheap baking powder.

When you say 'Cheap baking powder'....

Do you mean ordinary baking powder or that they use a low grade baking powder?
Or do you mean that the 'cheap baking powder' is cheap in relation to table salt?

Sodium Bicarbonate is cheap. So cheap it is used in cattle feed and in industry as a cleaning agent.

charlie_potatoes

Stalin wrote:

Sodium Bicarbonate is cheap. So cheap it is used in cattle feed and in industry as a cleaning agent.

It is more expensive than salt according to Mrs. Potatoes.

Stalin

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Stalin wrote:

Sodium Bicarbonate is cheap. So cheap it is used in cattle feed and in industry as a cleaning agent.

It is more expensive than salt according to Mrs. Potatoes.

I shall consult one of my ex wives. It might depend on the salt, sea salt being more expensive than Saxo.

birel101

Stalin wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Stalin wrote:

High 5 Zero Tabs contain sodium bicarbonate, which is cheap baking powder.

When you say 'Cheap baking powder'....

Do you mean ordinary baking powder or that they use a low grade baking powder?
Or do you mean that the 'cheap baking powder' is cheap in relation to table salt?

Sodium Bicarbonate is cheap. So cheap it is used in cattle feed and in industry as a cleaning agent.

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Stalin wrote:

Sodium Bicarbonate is cheap. So cheap it is used in cattle feed and in industry as a cleaning agent.

It is more expensive than salt according to Mrs. Potatoes.

Stalin wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Stalin wrote:

Sodium Bicarbonate is cheap. So cheap it is used in cattle feed and in industry as a cleaning agent.

It is more expensive than salt according to Mrs. Potatoes.

I shall consult one of my ex wives. It might depend on the salt, sea salt being more expensive than Saxo.

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Stalin wrote:

High 5 Zero Tabs contain sodium bicarbonate, which is cheap baking powder.

When you say 'Cheap baking powder'....

Do you mean ordinary baking powder or that they use a low grade baking powder?
Or do you mean that the 'cheap baking powder' is cheap in relation to table salt?

This is great reading material

charlie_potatoes

Stalin wrote:

I shall consult one of my ex wives. It might depend on the salt, sea salt being more expensive than Saxo.

It seems that you are misinformed. Mrs. Potatoes has conversed with Cook who advises that sea salt is in actual fact free of charge. At least it is where we live.

Stalin

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Stalin wrote:

I shall consult one of my ex wives. It might depend on the salt, sea salt being more expensive than Saxo.

It seems that you are misinformed. Mrs. Potatoes has conversed with Cook who advises that sea salt is in actual fact free of charge. At least it is where we live.

I have spoken to two of my ex wives and they are both adamant that good quality sea salt is very expensive, but then ex wives always claim everything is very expensive.

charlie_potatoes

Stalin wrote:

but then ex wives always claim everything is very expensive.

So do current wives

meanredspider

Stalin wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Stalin wrote:

I wish people would stop obsessing with electrolytes. It is a scientific/ marketing term for salt. There is already excessive salt in the average western diet, you don't need to keep adding more to your diet via sports drinks.

Have you actually looked at the ingredients of Zero tabs? "Salt" is NaCl. There is NONE in Zero tabs. I'm not sure who has been brainwashed here.

You can get dehydrated over night. Anybody who has woken up with a hangover is. Same goes for diabetes. I expect there are a few other causes - especially where the body is trying to flush out the system.

High 5 Zero Tabs contain mostly sodium bicarbonate, which is cheap baking powder. The Sodium content is 37.5 mg per ml.

Which zero tabs are you talking about? Are they sodium free?

You shouldn't take much sodium bicarbonate, it can cause head aches.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... 82001.html


Sodium when written on food labels is just another way of talking about the salt content of food.

Yup but sodium bicarbonate has nothing to do with sodium chloride (just try sprinkling it on your chips with vinegar instead of salt to prove this point). I bet the bicarbonate is in there to make them fizz (to help them dissolve) in the same way that it's in cakes to make the rise. Just because it has the word "sodium" in it doesn't mean that it's "salt". As it said before (and it seems you've checked), there's no salt in Zero tabs.

Stalin

meanredspider wrote:

Stalin wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Stalin wrote:

I wish people would stop obsessing with electrolytes. It is a scientific/ marketing term for salt. There is already excessive salt in the average western diet, you don't need to keep adding more to your diet via sports drinks.

Have you actually looked at the ingredients of Zero tabs? "Salt" is NaCl. There is NONE in Zero tabs. I'm not sure who has been brainwashed here.

You can get dehydrated over night. Anybody who has woken up with a hangover is. Same goes for diabetes. I expect there are a few other causes - especially where the body is trying to flush out the system.

High 5 Zero Tabs contain mostly sodium bicarbonate, which is cheap baking powder. The Sodium content is 37.5 mg per ml.

Which zero tabs are you talking about? Are they sodium free?

You shouldn't take much sodium bicarbonate, it can cause head aches.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... 82001.html


Sodium when written on food labels is just another way of talking about the salt content of food.

Yup but sodium bicarbonate has nothing to do with sodium chloride (just try sprinkling it on your chips with vinegar instead of salt to prove this point). I bet the bicarbonate is in there to make them fizz (to help them dissolve) in the same way that it's in cakes to make the rise. Just because it has the word "sodium" in it doesn't mean that it's "salt". As it said before (and it seems you've checked), there's no salt in Zero tabs.

It does not mater in what form you consume sodium, salt is the common name for sodium, fact is it makes no difference if you consume sodium bicarbonate or sodium chloride. It is still sodium.

Please read this
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-livin ... t-20045479

It makes no difference what form the sodium is, it is the sodium content which is the problem. Fact is your tabs are mostly sodium. In other words they are mostly salt.

charlie_potatoes

Stalin wrote:

It does not mater in what form you consume sodium, salt is the common name for sodium, fact is it makes no difference if you consume sodium bicarbonate or sodium chloride. It is still sodium.

Maybe this is why Bicarbonate is used?.....

http://www.flammerouge.je/factsheets/suppbicarb.htm

Stalin

No matter what form it takes -- table salt or sodium bicarbonate -- consuming too much sodium makes your body retain water, which increases blood volume and raises your blood pressure. For this reason, the recommended intake for sodium is 1,500 milligrams daily. Do not take sodium bicarbonate as an antacid for more than two weeks. Talk to your doctor before taking sodium bicarbonate if you have high blood pressure, take prescription medications or have heart, kidney or liver disease. Seek medical attention if you’re taking sodium bicarbonate and experience a severe headache, nausea, weakness, frequent urination, slow breathing, swollen feet or muscle pain.

meanredspider

Stalin wrote:

salt is the common name for sodium,

Fact is your tabs are mostly sodium. In other words they are mostly salt.

Utter utter borlicks - since when was salt the common name for sodium??? Sodium is a metal. Have you invented a new branch of chemistry where everything containing sodium is "salt"?

Seriously, I'm done with this - it's becoming surreal.

Stalin

meanredspider wrote:

Stalin wrote:

salt is the common name for sodium,

Fact is your tabs are mostly sodium. In other words they are mostly salt.

Utter utter borlicks - since when was salt the common name for sodium??? Sodium is a metal. Have you invented a new branch of chemistry where everything containing sodium is "salt"?

Seriously, I'm done with this - it's becoming surreal.

Sodium is the main constituent of both sodium chloride which is salt and sodium bicarbonate which is baking powder.

There is more than enough sodium in a normal diet, in fact far more than needed.

http://voices.yahoo.com/facts-sodium-sa ... html?cat=5

Excess sodium can create a variation in moods, congestion in the body, decreased bile and pancreatic function. Excess sodium causes the body to excrete up to 9 times the normal amount of potassium from cells, causing edema, hypertension and other potassium deficiency symptoms. Excess sodium also inhibits energy production inside the cells, creating a breeding ground for cancer. Excess sodium levels are quite common, largely due to the fact that processed foods comprise a major portion of the American diet. Practically all processed, refined and fast foods contain very high amounts of sodium. Typically, the more processing the food undergoes, the more sodium it contains. Below are some examples of the sodium content of some processed foods.

meanredspider

One day, Stalin, you'll stop quoting blindly from websites and learn to think for yourself.

I'm not American. I eat almost no processed food. I never add salt to my food. I don't eat bread. I have ideal blood pressure (I've just measured it for a week). I gets lots of potassium from the foods I do eat. Maybe that's why I get cramp? Who knows? I sweat buckets but I never get tide marks (again, maybe not enough salt to spare?)

BTW - Zero tabs weigh 4g. Sodium Bicarbonate is second on the list of ingredients which means, even if there were only two ingredients on the list, it must be half or less of the make up of a tab. So the sodium bicarbonate content is less than 2g. A bit of old O'level chemistry (IIRC) tells me that sodium makes up a bit more than a quarter of the weight - so 500mg MAXIMUM and probably considerably less. That's less than 1 quarter (maximum) of your daily limit. Maybe that's a problem if you're in a risk group or have a poor diet already. I'm not and I don't.

Stalin

meanredspider wrote:

One day, Stalin, you'll stop quoting blindly from websites and learn to think for yourself.

I'm not American. I eat almost no processed food. I never add salt to my food. I don't eat bread. I have ideal blood pressure (I've just measured it for a week). I gets lots of potassium from the foods I do eat. Maybe that's why I get cramp? Who knows? I sweat buckets but I never get tide marks (again, maybe not enough salt to spare?)

BTW - Zero tabs weigh 4g. Sodium Bicarbonate is second on the list of ingredients which means, even if there were only two ingredients on the list, it must be half or less of the make up of a tab. So the sodium bicarbonate content is less than 2g. A bit of old O'level chemistry (IIRC) tells me that sodium makes up a bit more than a quarter of the weight - so 500mg MAXIMUM and probably considerably less. That's less than 1 quarter (maximum) of your daily limit. Maybe that's a problem if you're in a risk group or have a poor diet already. I'm not and I don't.

You need to think for yourself, the fact is you can't, which is why you are easy prey for sports drink marketing.

charlie_potatoes

Stalin wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

You need to think for yourself, the fact is you can't, which is why you are easy prey for sports drink marketing.

I don't get this 'easy prey' malarky.

A high 5 tablet is about 20p. When compared to the general soft drink market is incredibly cheap.