SRAM Double Tap

rdent

I recently picked up a Dolan Prefussio and it has SRAM Double Tap, finding shifting the rear gears really hard. Any help with getting the hang on it?

Also, would it be possible to buy different gear shifters such as Shimano and install them but still keep the same group set?

DaveL

I have double tap, and think its great, is it just a case of just getting used to it??

No you can't just change to shimano or anything else, as they use different ratios

Dave

Bozman

You could swap the shifters and derailleurs, the chainset and brakes will be fine. I've got a mate doing similar because he's struggling with Force after a lifetime with Shimano.
There's a good call for SRAM so you shouldn't have a problem selling them, if you have a look at Merlin they sell shifter and derailleur sets pretty cheaply.

sungod

practice

i've got double tap on one bike and sti on another, i can shift fine with both

it's just a matter of time, you'll get used to it

KevChallis

I had my first ride out with sram force at the weekend, took about 1 or 2 miles to get used to it.

After that I found it find, not so quick shifting down as my shimano sora was last year, but as above, I'm sure that's just me needing to get used to it. If I struggle, I will change it haha, but currently, it will be staying on

rdent

I find it easy enough with the front gear and going to the big ring on the rear, it's just goin down at the rear that I'm struggling with, I understand you tap then tap again quickly to go down but everytime I tap it jumps up before I have chance to double it.

KevChallis

rdent wrote:

I find it easy enough with the front gear and going to the big ring on the rear, it's just goin down at the rear that I'm struggling with, I understand you tap then tap again quickly to go down but everytime I tap it jumps up before I have chance to double it.

No, you just push it further, it clicks once, push it further, it clicks again, well clunks lol

So first click is up a gear, if you first click and carry on pushing it clunks, and changes down, don't release the pressure on the leaver, just push it until it clicks twice

rdent

I'm a bloody idiot, aren't I? Just been practising again now and you've helped me get it. Cheers! Saved me £200+.

KevChallis

rdent wrote:

I'm a bloody idiot, aren't I? Just been practising again now and you've helped me get it. Cheers! Saved me £200+.

Not at all, I thought the same at first.

If still stuck, just had a look around the net for you and found this mate, may be of a little more help....

http://thebicyclechain.com/m/articles/how-to-shift-sram-doubletap-levers-pg292.htm

patrickf

DaveL wrote:

I have double tap, and think its great, is it just a case of just getting used to it??

No you can't just change to shimano or anything else, as they use different ratios

Dave

You only need to match rear derailleurs. The rest is compatible. Unless they've recently changed pull ratios on front derailleurs?

Bar Shaker

If you say big prod = bigger cog, small prod = smaller cog you will quickly pick it up.

Once you are used to them, you won't want any other mechanical shifters.

slap_my_bass_up

I swapped 105 for Force on my good bike (still have 105 on the year round bike) and I prefer everything about SRAM; the ergonomics of the hoods and shifters, the positive mechanical sound of the gear changes and the brake response. I think the double tap is superb, I like a brake lever to be a brake lever, rather than the down shift with the sti's.

diamonddog

Bar Shaker wrote:

If you say big prod = bigger cog, small prod = smaller cog you will quickly pick it up.

Once you are used to them, you won't want any other mechanical shifters.

^^+1 for this.

mattsccm

don't change. Having said that I don't like the way its a double push to drop the chain ring. Changing down should be a single click. Ie the same for both ends not a double to go down gears as SRAM do it.

StillGoing

mattsccm wrote:

don't change. Having said that I don't like the way its a double push to drop the chain ring. Changing down should be a single click. Ie the same for both ends not a double to go down gears as SRAM do it.

It isn't a double push to drop the chainring as you put it. The first click on pre yaw shifters is a trim should you need it the same as the trim on Shimano and Campagnolo front derailleurs which also require a double click. As for the rear; the SRAM long throw to change down the block is intuitive in that the further up the block you want to go, the longer the throw. If you only want to change down a single gear a short throw of the lever drops you one gear, if you need to go down more, a long throw will change down up to three gears at a time. SRAM is a completely different operating system to Shimano and Campagnolo and does the job just as well. Riders choose the operating system that works for them and for many SRAM is intuitive. One lever that does everything and adjustable for reach, no fiddly thumb levers that small hands can't reach from the drops and a brake lever that doesn't move sideways appeal to a lot of riders. If it operated the same as Shimano it would just be another Shimano groupset.

mattsccm

I like the back system as it makes sense (ie it matches my Campag stuff) but still reckon it should just be the opposite to what it is at the front. Maybe its the bike set up though.
Anyway I would recommend SRAM

sungod

doing that would mean using the shift option (single click) with least mechanical advantage to increase cable tension, which'd be a poor design decision

irrespective of whether it's sram, shimano, or campag, the common factor is that the shifting method with least mechanical advantage is used for the shift made by lowering cable tension (single click, small lever, thumb lever), and the one with greatest mechanical advantage for the shift made by increasing cable tension (double click, big lever, big lever)

Garry H

mattsccm wrote:

I like the back system as it makes sense (ie it matches my Campag stuff) but still reckon it should just be the opposite to what it is at the front. Maybe its the bike set up though.
Anyway I would recommend SRAM

Eh? Surely the half click is the equivalent of the thumb lever on campag. So it's all the same...

crescent

I have SRAM and Shimano on my summer and winter bikes respectively. I like them both although probably favour the SRAM system - that may be because it is slightly further up the range though (SRAM Rival as opposed to Shimano Sora on my Allez). Both systems use the same principle in terms of what effect a change in tension has on the derailleurs? In both systems an increase in tension on the front derailleur will move from small to large ring and a releases of tension will move from large to small. An increase in tension on the RD will move from small to large cog and a release of tension will move from large to small cog.
Shimano brake lever push = SRAM long travel.
Shimano trigger push = SRAM short travel.

Kieran_Burns

Oddy enough I'd had enough of my SRAM apex double tap setup and swapped it for a 105 groupset. All my other bikes are Shimano and I just didn't like going from one set up to the other. Personally I find Shimano more intuitive and quicker to change, but it's horses for courses I guess.

I've also realised I need to clean up the old set and get them up for sale!

mattsccm

Noooo.
To go down (ie dropping to a smaller chainring) at the front needs 2 clicks, just like dropping to a smaller cog at the back does. thing is at the back you are changing up!
I see the logic in one way, 2 clicks for a smaller sprocket/ring , 1 click for a bigger but that means they are not both going up or down. Campag and Shimano do it so that 1 lever drops to a smaller sprocket/ring
Maybe mine is not set up correctly but to go down a chain ring definitely needs 2 clicks.
Not logical that's all.
Works fine, will probably swap the Campag stuff to SRAM

crescent

mattsccm wrote:

Noooo.
To go down (ie dropping to a smaller chainring) at the front needs 2 clicks, just like dropping to a smaller cog at the back does. thing is at the back you are changing up!
I see the logic in one way, 2 clicks for a smaller sprocket/ring , 1 click for a bigger but that means they are not both going up or down. Campag and Shimano do it so that 1 lever drops to a smaller sprocket/ring
Maybe mine is not set up correctly but to go down a chain ring definitely needs 2 clicks.
Not logical that's all.
Works fine, will probably swap the Campag stuff to SRAM

The double tap is a bit of a misnomer as neither direction needs two clicks - the two options are a short shift or a long shift and both are carried out as a single action of the lever. The reason you might have to make two clicks on the chainring is because one of them is a trim movement, which is perfectly normal and not where the double tap name comes from. I don't know why you would have to click it twice to make a change on the rear derailleur, certainly not how mine works.

Ouija

mattsccm wrote:

Noooo.
To go down (ie dropping to a smaller chainring) at the front needs 2 clicks, just like dropping to a smaller cog at the back does. thing is at the back you are changing up!
I see the logic in one way, 2 clicks for a smaller sprocket/ring , 1 click for a bigger but that means they are not both going up or down. Campag and Shimano do it so that 1 lever drops to a smaller sprocket/ring
Maybe mine is not set up correctly but to go down a chain ring definitely needs 2 clicks.
Not logical that's all.
Works fine, will probably swap the Campag stuff to SRAM

As mentioned, the two taps to go to the smaller front ring from the big ring is because you have a trim function (as do a lot of Shimano shifters). Basically, you may only have two rings but you can have the derailleur in THREE positions.

1) Above the big ring.
2) Halfway between the two (Trim).
3) Above the small ring.

The trim position is there to allow you to get further up or down the cassette before the chain starts rubbing against the derailleur.

The rear shifter is one big push until you feel a solid "click" to go to a bigger ring and one light tap to go to a smaller ring (same as the front shifters). As mentioned, the name "double tap" is a misnomer as you don't double tap anything to change one gear (either up or down). If your "double tapping" the front shifter to get to the smallest ring it's because you're changing TWO gears (to trim, to small). Flat bar double taps don't have the trim position, for instance, so it's one tap to go down one ring (same as the rear shifter).

CXrider

I have SRAM Apex on the Boardman Team CX and 105s on the Boardman Team Race and I probably use both equally during the week depending on circumstances, such as who I am riding with and weather conditions.

I got between the two easily and have never ever had to think about it.
I find both are good, both are intuitive and are both similarly fast changing up and down the small cogs.
I would say that the change from large to small fronts cogs or back is a bit easier on the 105s.
Countering that is my belief that I prefer the ONE piece movement of the SRAM - as in, you change down and up using the same lever, whereas the 105s use the lever for up and the hood for down.
Overall, it makes not a great deal of difference in either case and they are both great.
Whichever one you use first is likely the one that you will always slightly or heaviliy prefer but get both and enjoy both. It really is not a big deal. They are far worse things to worry about, such as getting your shoes out of the bloody cleats

The main thing that buggers me up when changing between the two bikes, one after the other, is definately not the different gear changing system but the Brake Handles on the bar of the handlebars on the Team CX!
I LOVE them - so good when braking at a junction from speed - best idea ever though purists would shudder.
They are massively more powerful than the brakes on the hoods.

The problem is then going to the Team Race and reaching for brakes that are not there!

http://cdn1.coresites.mpora.com/bikemag ... eam-03.jpg

rdent

I've found the rear easy to do now, but sometimes the front ring doesn't go from small to big ring very easily, so much so sometimes I have to get off and do it manually.

diamonddog

Front mech cable may need to be tensioned a touch, no big deal.

Kieran_Burns

You could also check which side of the retaining nut you've got the cable passing over...

norvernrob

rdent wrote:

I've found the rear easy to do now, but sometimes the front ring doesn't go from small to big ring very easily, so much so sometimes I have to get off and do it manually.

If the cable is too slack the derailleur won't move outwards properly.

Put the front on the big ring and try pulling the cable by hand whilst watching the derailleur, if it moves outwards then the cable needs tightening. Once the derailleur doesn't move when the cable is pulled then you can set the outer limit screw to sit 1mm or so outside the chain and it should work properly.

Really good, easy to follow video here:

http://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/mainten ... lleur.html

StillGoing

NorvernRob wrote:

rdent wrote:

I've found the rear easy to do now, but sometimes the front ring doesn't go from small to big ring very easily, so much so sometimes I have to get off and do it manually.

If the cable is too slack the derailleur won't move outwards properly.

Put the front on the big ring and try pulling the cable by hand whilst watching the derailleur, if it moves outwards then the cable needs tightening. Once the derailleur doesn't move when the cable is pulled then you can set the outer limit screw to sit 1mm or so outside the chain and it should work properly.

Really good, easy to follow video here:

http://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/mainten ... lleur.html

eh? Why go through that rigmarole when you're likely going to have to set it up anyway.

1. Remove the cable with the chain on the inner ring and on the largest sprocket of the cassette.
2. Adjust the limit screw nearest the frame so the chain just clears the FD on the inside.
3. Make sure the shifter is in the position for the inner ring i.e. cable full slack.
4. Re-attach the cable applying tension by hand.
5. Try changing up to the big ring.
6. If it doesn't change up, adjust the limit screw nearest to you 1/4 turn at a time.
7. If it drops the chain on the outside, adjust in the opposite direction.
8. Change up to the smallest gear on the cassette and try changing up to the big ring again to make sure it all works.

marcusww

Ive just bought a bike with Sram Apex - my other bike is Ultegra, I found the Sram odd to start with but I got used to it with no probs.

My question is about the right hand shifter - the gear lever can move to the left and stick to the left of the brake lever - should it flick back into position?

norvernrob

philthy3 wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

rdent wrote:

I've found the rear easy to do now, but sometimes the front ring doesn't go from small to big ring very easily, so much so sometimes I have to get off and do it manually.

If the cable is too slack the derailleur won't move outwards properly.

Put the front on the big ring and try pulling the cable by hand whilst watching the derailleur, if it moves outwards then the cable needs tightening. Once the derailleur doesn't move when the cable is pulled then you can set the outer limit screw to sit 1mm or so outside the chain and it should work properly.

Really good, easy to follow video here:

http://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/mainten ... lleur.html

eh? Why go through that rigmarole when you're likely going to have to set it up anyway.

1. Remove the cable with the chain on the inner ring and on the largest sprocket of the cassette.
2. Adjust the limit screw nearest the frame so the chain just clears the FD on the inside.
3. Make sure the shifter is in the position for the inner ring i.e. cable full slack.
4. Re-attach the cable applying tension by hand.
5. Try changing up to the big ring.
6. If it doesn't change up, adjust the limit screw nearest to you 1/4 turn at a time.
7. If it drops the chain on the outside, adjust in the opposite direction.
8. Change up to the smallest gear on the cassette and try changing up to the big ring again to make sure it all works.

What rigmarole? That video and my explanation just shows exactly what you've described except an extra part which is checking the cable tension by pulling it. It takes a couple of seconds, and if it's too slack then messing with the outer limit screw is pointless because the derailleur won't move outwards to the set point until the tension is increased.

Your guide wouldn't have worked for me because tensioning the cable by hand wasn't enough. I could still move the derailleur outwards a bit when on the big ring by pulling the cable, hence the outer limit screw didn't need adjusting next, the cable tension did.