Training for the Marmotte

Cmonlegs

Riding the Marmotte in July.

Anyone done it themselves and what specific training would you recommend?

bernithebiker

Cmonlegs wrote:

Riding the Marmotte in July.

Anyone done it themselves and what specific training would you recommend?

Start climbing some hills!

DeVlaeminck

Lots of long fast group rides in the Alps would be ideal.

If your budget wont stretch to that then just get plenty of miles in, some hard longer group rides, some shorter faster stuff like chaingangs or 2*20 sessions.

Specifically you need to be comfy riding and descending in a group or it will cost you time. It's really about general race fitness, the people who do well in road races of 50 miles or so also tended to be the ones putting in fast Marmotte times, the exceptions being heavier riders who obviously aren't suited to mountains. Guys who did a lot of miles but without the chain gang/ race type training were generally a few hours slower but in our group anyway nobody came close to DNFing for fitness reasons.

kostya416

If you have computer controlled trainer (KICKR, Computrainer, Lynx) you can experience it now We have Marmotte video and road profile for our software. Other resistance trainers will do as well but they will not be controlled by software to let you experience grade but rather derive your speed based on power (real if you have power meter or derived as we have many trainer power vs speed profiles built in)

http://veloreality.com

hypster

I did the Marmotte several years ago and trained for that doing long endurance rides at the weekend and lots of hill repeat circuits during the week. I got round okay but inexperience with that sort of event meant I wasted a lot of time with longish stops on the road and at feed stations. You do really need to keep on the move as much as possible and stop for as little and as short a time as is possible.

I have entered again this year and the perceived training wisdom now seems to be that the sort of short, sharp climbs we have in the UK are not really good training as you recover on the descents too quickly. A better training regime seems to be tempo rides of an hour or more on flatish terrain. This will keep the pressure up on your legs and body for much more like the sort of constant effort level you will encounter in the Alps.

The Glandon and Galibier climbs are liable to be up to two hours of average 8% gradient so you will need to be prepared for this level of constant effort, mentally as well as physically. I would still suggest building up weekend distances to 100 miles as well but at a lower pace to train your endurance engine.

This is a good reference site for the Marmotte with lots of useful information:

http://www.centurytraining.com/training ... -marmotte/

richa

The Marmotte is 4x 1-1.5hrs climbs with some descents inbetween.

Turbo is as good as anything for practicing steady power at sub-threshold.

Add long rides to build endurance for the 8-10 hrs the Marmotte may take...

meanredspider

I'm training for Alpe D'HuZes (6x up ADH in a day) - it's different in that it's less about speed and more just about completing it (for me, in any case).

I live in NL most of the time which isn't ideal for Alpine training

Firstly I've been losing weight (8kg - actually just noticed that I've just squeaked into "ideal" on BMI charts - not that I give them much credence) - this will be key to my climbing.

Secondly I've been doing century rides around the Markermeer. It's very flat but the return (southerly) leg is nearly always into a relentless wind with almost no cover to speak of (ditches and open water are crap cover). It's great mental training and I'm noticing what the long rides are doing to my endurance.

Thirdly, and probably the least value to me but great for morale, is doing 2-hour tempo rides: I'm seeing my normalised power climbing week-by-week.

Finally, I've been using my Tacx Fortius turbo to climb ADH. Yesterday I beat my best time by 4 minutes. I also practice the slow, steady, climbs I'll be doing on the day. I'm experimenting to find the ideal power that I know I can deliver all day.

bahzob

I'll be riding it again as well. Have done so in the past finishing in top 350.

Advice above is good, it's really all about being able to do a series of hardish 1-2 hour efforts with recovery gaps in between. So specific drills aimed at these is good training for body and mind.

Otherwise;
- If you have never followed a training plan before this is a good time to do so. For most riders who are limited in time the "Time Crunched Cyclist" is a good book. It comes with ready made plans, you can use these,
- If not already done so get a bike fit.
- I'll be posting a workout that I have found to be especially good preparation in the next week or so.

hypster

bahzob wrote:

I'll be riding it again as well. Have done so in the past finishing in top 350.

Advice above is good, it's really all about being able to do a series of hardish 1-2 hour efforts with recovery gaps in between. So specific drills aimed at these is good training for body and mind.

Otherwise;
- If you have never followed a training plan before this is a good time to do so. For most riders who are limited in time the "Time Crunched Cyclist" is a good book. It comes with ready made plans, you can use these,
- If not already done so get a bike fit.
- I'll be posting a workout that I have found to be especially good preparation in the next week or so.

That will be interesting bahzob, I'll look forward to seeing that workout.

DeVlaeminck

I think the idea of it being 4 climbs and 3 recoveries is a bit off.

The Glandon/ CdF itself is far from a steady gradient so there are bits of recovery in there and a few steeper bits too.

From the foot of the Glandon you only have maybe 5k of descent off the Telegraphe to recover until the top of the Galibier. So the Maurienne valley ( 10 miles?), Telegraphe ( hour climb?) and Galibier ( 2 hours?) all come with maybe 10 minutes recovery at most. Then much of the descent off the Lauteret is not recovery if you want to keep the pace up/keep with a group.

hypster

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I think the idea of it being 4 climbs and 3 recoveries is a bit off.

The Glandon/ CdF itself is far from a steady gradient so there are bits of recovery in there and a few steeper bits too.

From the foot of the Glandon you only have maybe 5k of descent off the Telegraphe to recover until the top of the Galibier. So the Maurienne valley ( 10 miles?), Telegraphe ( hour climb?) and Galibier ( 2 hours?) all come with maybe 10 minutes recovery at most. Then much of the descent off the Lauteret is not recovery if you want to keep the pace up/keep with a group.

I understand what point you are making but at least you have the option of riding a bit slower if you need to recover between the climbs. On them you have no choice but to grind away.

oldhairylegs

I'm going back for another go this year; it will be my third Marmotte.

As already mentioned, you need to prepare yourself for riding seated at slow speed for long periods, so some long steady rides are very useful prep. It's important not to go too hard on the first climb up The Glandon so that you have plenty left in the tank for later on - you can make up (or lose) a huge amount of time going up The Alpe. Hydration and feeding throughout the ride are critical - use your prep rides to get this sorted.

The descent off The Glandon is 18k and it is a potentially dangerous one as there will be a large number of riders in close proximity - the top part in particular is tricky. In an attempt to stop riders going too fast, this descent is neutralised, so you can take as long as you like between the timing mats. I have seen bad crashes on both occasions down there, so you need to be really focussed for the whole time. It's another 20k to the foot of the Telegraph; you should try and get in with a group of similar pace riders during this transition as it will keep your speed up but still give you plenty of recovery opportunities. Likewise, when descending off the Galibier/Lauteret, it's good to get in a group - although you need to be aware and steer well clear of any dodgy descenders - especially going into the tunnels!

It's a fantastic and unforgettable day; some of the views just take your breath away and make the effort well worth it.

Good luck!

nunowoolmez

Also my first this year. My prep so far has been on/off due to injury, illness & work, so not feeling as fit as I wanted to be at this stage. I am wondering about the last few weeks prep. Is there an ideal time to do the last 100 mile ride? Is doing heavy (hilly & flat) mileage just 1 week before (over 200 miles across 2 days) a bad idea, or could this be seen as riding into form?

Also, am thinking of entering Tour Of Wessex to build into training, but not sure if 3 days of 100+ miles is wise, or doable for me right now actually!

bahzob

nunowoolmez wrote:

Also my first this year. My prep so far has been on/off due to injury, illness & work, so not feeling as fit as I wanted to be at this stage. I am wondering about the last few weeks prep. Is there an ideal time to do the last 100 mile ride? Is doing heavy (hilly & flat) mileage just 1 week before (over 200 miles across 2 days) a bad idea, or could this be seen as riding into form?

Also, am thinking of entering Tour Of Wessex to build into training, but not sure if 3 days of 100+ miles is wise, or doable for me right now actually!

Don't stress. There is plenty of time to get fit still. If you are not already following a training plan I would suggest buy a copy of the Time Crunched Cyclist and following one of the programs there. They are 12 weeks long but get you up to fitness in 8-10 so you have time to complete.

Planning to do a hard simulation ride a week before is a very good idea and I'd recommend to all. I will be doing the Marmotte this year and have booked onto the mini-series that it's part of. This includes hard rides the preceding weekend and on the Wed before.

Biggest mistake you can make the week before is rest. If you do this your body starts to detrain and puts you in rotten shape. Best is to plan to do 1-2 hour rides daily at your planned climbing pace. Getting to the event usually requires a day or 2 off anyway and that is all the full days off you require. Day before the event itself go out for a short 30-60 minute ride at your climbing pace+about 5%. That will set you up fine.

Re TOWessex, yes I would recommend it, have done it myself as training in the past and doing so again this year.
It's great physical training even in your state (just set realistic objectives) and will also sort out any issues in terms of bike fit/nutrition. If both go fine then leave well alone and don't be tempted to tinker/splash out on go faster bits of kit. If not then plenty of time to get sorted.

TOW is also great mental training (especially if the weather is crap). If you do all 3 days hard then the last day is tougher than the Marmotte. If you can get yourself through that then it should give you all the confidence you need for July. On other hand if you have a mare then it may prevent one one in France if you understand the reasons why and have the chance to sort them out.

bahzob

hypster wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I think the idea of it being 4 climbs and 3 recoveries is a bit off.

The Glandon/ CdF itself is far from a steady gradient so there are bits of recovery in there and a few steeper bits too.

From the foot of the Glandon you only have maybe 5k of descent off the Telegraphe to recover until the top of the Galibier. So the Maurienne valley ( 10 miles?), Telegraphe ( hour climb?) and Galibier ( 2 hours?) all come with maybe 10 minutes recovery at most. Then much of the descent off the Lauteret is not recovery if you want to keep the pace up/keep with a group.

I understand what point you are making but at least you have the option of riding a bit slower if you need to recover between the climbs. On them you have no choice but to grind away.

Advice can be a bit tricky as folks will have various goals. Broadly
- If you want to go as fast as possible then the Maurienne valley needs to be done quickly, which means finding and sticking with a fast group while doing all you can to save energy. Most of the Lauteret descent is recovery, there are just a few draggy bits towards the end but pushing hard on these vs taking easy will only result in a few minutes difference at the end of the day.
- If you just want to finish then the key is setting and hitting target times for the climbs. There are places between them where you can take as much time to recover as you like and you can set out a plan to do this. (Just avoid getting carried away and overeating)

DeVlaeminck

Yes true it does depend on your aims. With the Lauteret whether you class it as recovery is relative I suppose, some people may imagine 25 miles of coasting which it isn't - but yes neither is it like climbing. In a decent sized group it can be pretty easy, on your own or with one other rider it can be hard work to keep any sort of pace up - I've had both and I think my advice would be don't push hard and wait for a group to come by, then make sure you stay in it. This is where a bit of race experience can help (same in Maurienne Valley) holding a position in a group so when it splits you are in the front of that split - the front of any split generally contains those willing to work so they'll pull away - get caught in the back half and you can be stuck with all those either suffering or looking for a free ride.

As far as training - the ToW would be ideal, I think a century a week before would be fine too and most of us did plenty of riding in the week itself, last year I found myself going better as the week went on, first few days the heat really affected me but I felt ok on the day despite it being a hot one.

Marik

The vast majority of Marmotte riders will always turn up in half decent form fitness wise, often its the unexpected events that catch folk out, like the horrific heat last year. My advice would be to go & wrap yourself in clingfilm from head to foot, dress in every piece of winter cycling gear you own, then hit the hills (for 8 to 10 hours) on the hottest days you can find. If you can hack that, you're made!

(But unfortunately for any heat worshippers out there who reckon that'd make their day - the year before last I believe many abandoned the Etape du Tour due to the cold)

tp2000

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is core strength. I've done quite a few events (etapes, cent cols etc) and the first thing that people complain about is their lower backs (and knees actually).

I'm not a huge fan of core strength for core strength's sake, however the way I approached it was to do 2x20 sessions on a turbo but at a cadence 5-10 rpm lower than you might usually spin at. This does 2 things - gets the legs used to being stressed (more realistic simulation of a climb) but also stresses your lower back. If you really want to replicate the climbing position (ie the change in weight distribution from an 8% gradient) then the yellow pages (I have used both Chester and North Wales as well as London in the past) under the front wheel helps.

If 2x20 gets frankly tedious (it does) then 4x10 (with 2 min gaps) and then 5x10 (with 2 min gaps) gives you a chance to retain what little sanity you will have left.

That said, there is little substitute for actually getting out and riding. Fast tempo (sweet spot) is actually pretty good fun and if you give it a bit more on the hills then you'll still get the threshold workout too (not scientific admittedly).

Oh and finally, on the long alpine downhills, do try and spin the legs a bit.....its quite amazing how quickly the wind chill (unless its a blisteringly hot day) can pretty much shut the legs down. Then again....there is always another hill to warm them up (its just the start of the climb is a little more unpleasant as you realise they've stopped working!)

Good luck.....but most of all, enjoy it.

simon johnson

For prep I used the turbo primarily- 60-90 min efforts using a harder resistance than usual with the front propped up to simulate a gradient. All sound advice above for you to pick from - building core strength will help.

I did this last year (and once before in 2011). I really really suffered in the heat last year....I don't know if that can be prepared for. I finished in 7.30 but had to stop for half an hour or so on Alpe d'Huez due to the heat. Also stopped briefly on top of the Galibier. I went too hard coming off the Galibier and pushed hard into Bourg which certainly didn't help....don't forget about those bits in between the climbs and lose discipline there with your pacing, for me those bits were a bit deceptive. I went into the red as each time I found myself alone and worked hard to catch up to a bunch ahead. I guess I should've let a bunch catch me!

Crucial for me was finding an intensity sweet spot on the climbs and knowing when to ease off, I didn't ride with power so this was perceived effort and assisted with cadence/mph. Also dropping the gear down a few blocks and getting out of the saddle every 15 minutes on the climb. Of course, stay relaxed, don't stress yourself. If you have the fitness then you have the fitness, work hard but know your limits. If you still feel good half way up the Alpe then that's the time to push! Enjoy it. I'm off to the Maratona again - recommended also.

ps the first time round I panic ordered the Mike Cotty Marmotte DVD - and although it seemed a bit desperate at the time I found it actually quite helpful

mjbennett

I would also suggest that you do a ride or two where you're in the saddle for 8 or 9 hours a month before, so your body is used to it. If you've had your bike for years and done lots of rides then this isn't that critical, but if you are on a newish bike you need to be comfy and used to the saddle!

Also, take two water bottles and chamois cream (and the best bib shorts you can afford)