Tramadol causing crashes

frenchfighter

Lotto-Belisol team doctor Jan Mathieu has told the press that the use of a powerful painkiller called Tramadol is a possible contributor to a recent series of crashes that have marred the early classics of season 2014.

As an opioid Tramadol can cause drowsiness which, according to Mathieu in an interview with sporza.be, has seen some riders lose concentration and cause crashes.

Teams signed up to the Movement for Credible Cycling aren’t supposed to use the drug, but teams that aren’t signed up are free to use it as it’s not on WADA’s banned substances list.

“Tramadol is a really strong painkiller and has a central effect,” said Mathieu. “It is dangerous for your concentration and you can become addicted to it. The MPCC has asked the UCI and WADA to ban its use.”

WADA added Tramadol to its ‘watch list’ a couple years ago and is currently monitoring its use and potential abuse.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... tor-119652

Yellow Peril

Tramadol has been used for some time in the peleton and it is only now that it is being associated with crashes. There may be many reasons for banning it but I don't think it is responsible for any rise in the crash rate (if in fact there is one)

dish_dash

I don't understand. Is he saying that non-MPCC riders are on Tramadol and that they not MPCC riders are causing the crashes? Tramadol use may be an issue, but saying it's use causes crashes seems tenuous...

frenchfighter

It's someone from Lotto saying it after all - they have been causing a lot of crashes recently. It could be realistic but imo it seems tenuous as well. Poor bike handling and lack of focus is a much easier thing to pin it on.

MrTapir

plus that rolling bidon that caused everyone to go down in GW.

MrTapir

nice flamingo by the way.

Richmond Racer

dish_dash wrote:

I don't understand. Is he saying that non-MPCC riders are on Tramadol and that they not MPCC riders are causing the crashes? Tramadol use may be an issue, but saying it's use causes crashes seems tenuous...

Exhibit 1: Tyler Farrar. Rides for an MPCC team. Notorious when it comes to causing crashes.

Seems like a bit of an MPCC ra-ra-ra exercise

blazing_saddles

frenchfighter wrote:

It's someone from Lotto saying it after all - they have been causing a lot of crashes recently. It could be realistic but imo it seems tenuous as well. Poor bike handling and lack of focus is a much easier thing to pin it on.

LOL, yes.
The caused one and had one all on their own, just yesterday.

blazing_saddles

Richmond Racer wrote:

Exhibit 1: Tyler Farrar. Rides for an MPCC team. Notorious when it comes to causing crashes.

Seems like a bit of an MPCC ra-ra-ra exercise

The guy is a crash magnet.
I was amazed he got through Dwars and E3 before finally hitting the
deck in Gent Wevelgem. Must be some kind of record.
So often to be found at the bottom of a pile of riders.

mroli

Someone tweeted (Millar) that he thought the increase in crashes was a result of a load of young riders, not showing peloton awareness and trying to force themselves into places that weren't there. He did say that he might be a grumpy old man.

He also said that Farrar should be made to cycle with stabilisers (this may not be true).

Richmond Racer

Also the decent weather the races have been run in? Doesnt lead to selections being made early on, too many guys still thinking they have a chance in the latter part of the race and constantly battling for the same bit of road

Pross

Tramadol shouldn't get used whether it causes a crash or not. Pain is there for a reason so using strong medication to mask it and enable someone to continue riding when they shouldn't be is irresponsible (and that's assuming it's being used legitimately as a painkiller for injuries etc.).

The_Boy

Small point of order, but looking past the headline, the doctor in question isn't saying Tramadol is *causing* crashes but saying it's a contributing factor among others such as route design. He also raises concerns about it being addictive.

All seems reasonable enough.

Richmond Racer

mroli wrote:

Someone tweeted (Millar) that he thought the increase in crashes was a result of a load of young riders, not showing peloton awareness and trying to force themselves into places that weren't there. He did say that he might be a grumpy old man.

He also said that Farrar should be made to cycle with stabilisers (this may not be true).

Geraint's saying similar - well, at least too many guys taking unnecessary risks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/2687 ... m=BBCWorld

(and yes, I know Geraint's been a crash magnet, but to be fair its not usually him taking out others but the other way around)

Richmond Racer

Pross wrote:

Tramadol shouldn't get used whether it causes a crash or not. Pain is there for a reason so using strong medication to mask it and enable someone to continue riding when they shouldn't be is irresponsible (and that's assuming it's being used legitimately as a painkiller for injuries etc.).

WADA monitoring - wouldnt be surprised to see it added to the banned list end of this year. However, on the same note, you have to view athletes getting cortisone injections mid-event - yes, tennis, I'm looking at you - in exactly the same way. Shocking to see a tennis player taking an injury break mid-match and getting a cortisone shot so that they can carry on playing.

BelgianBeerGeek

+1 to Pross^
This madness. I know the pressure can be on some teams and riders (a lot) but Tramadol is serious sh*t.

frenchfighter

Richmond Racer wrote:

mroli wrote:

Someone tweeted (Millar) that he thought the increase in crashes was a result of a load of young riders, not showing peloton awareness and trying to force themselves into places that weren't there. He did say that he might be a grumpy old man.

He also said that Farrar should be made to cycle with stabilisers (this may not be true).

Geraint's saying similar - well, at least too many guys taking unnecessary risks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/2687 ... m=BBCWorld

(and yes, I know Geraint's been a crash magnet, but to be fair its not usually him taking out others but the other way around)

‏@GeraintThomas86 Mar 30
Well I'm glad to get through that day in one piece!! Stress and crashes galore!! I just don't understand the risks some guys take #chill

Pross

Richmond Racer wrote:

Pross wrote:

Tramadol shouldn't get used whether it causes a crash or not. Pain is there for a reason so using strong medication to mask it and enable someone to continue riding when they shouldn't be is irresponsible (and that's assuming it's being used legitimately as a painkiller for injuries etc.).

WADA monitoring - wouldnt be surprised to see it added to the banned list end of this year. However, on the same note, you have to view athletes getting cortisone injections mid-event - yes, tennis, I'm looking at you - in exactly the same way. Shocking to see a tennis player taking an injury break mid-match and getting a cortisone shot so that they can carry on playing.

I completely agree. I guess the only difference in a sport like tennis is that it's an individuals choice whereas in a team sport an athlete can be pressured into continuing through injury by others. I'm often amazed at the lack of checking that goes into putting a cyclist back on a bike after a heavy crash. I reckon concussed riders are a bigger risk in the peloton than tramadol. I watched a semi-pro rugby match last weekend, a player got knocked out briefly and was assessed by medical staff for 10 minutes before being carefully put on a spinal board and stretchered off to hospital and there's all sorts of protocols now for dealing with head injuries. Obviously the nature of cycling means a rider is out if an assessment takes more than a few seconds but very few teams seem to err on the side of caution - we often see riders finish a stage then go to hospital for an xray showing broken bones. Then again, expecting people who were happy to pump all sorts of potentially life threatening products into an athlete to exercise a duty of care is probably a bit optimistic!

Richmond Racer

Its an interesting debate. I think a tennis player can have all sorts of pressures on them to continue to play - you can have young players desperate for ranking points (some not immune from over-pressure from coaches or from parents), top players financially supporting entire entourages etc, so not sure I see it in too different a light - but that's just my opinion.

One thing that does strike me as standing out with cycling is that its in a pro's innate nature to try to get back onto their bike - its their first instinctive reaction. So you have a staff member standing there holding their bike for them - it can be an open invitation, cant it, unless the rider's with a team with a decent approach and the doc's on hand to say no.

Radioshack letting Horner continue after his crash in the 2011 Tour, was one standout example that should never have been allowed. He was concussed out of his tiny mind.

The_Boy

There's a balance to be struck between allowing the rider to make the decision whether to carry on and being able to recognise when they might not be able to make a rational judgement due to their injuries.

Given the history of the sport and the fact that it's basically founded upon the notion of superhuman efforts, I'd say the balance is a little off, and team staff and medical staff could do a better job of basically throwing in the towel on their riders' behalf.

As an aside, and regarding the rugby analogy above, I remember seeing Yachvili (I think) take a serious knock which led to a short delay in the game restarting as he had staggered up and gone to stand in the opposition line without a clue as to where he was. The attitude seemed to be one of "hey, he's still conscious". How the coaching staff were able to leave him out there to carry on playing and still sleep at night is beyond me, so not only cycling that has its 'Horner' moments.

Pross

I think the difference is that rugby (and recently football as well) have realised the errors of the past and taken measures to prevent it happening again. A friend of my dad's scored what was described as the greatest try ever scored at my home town rugby club, problem was he was concussed at the time and had run the full length of the field to touch down under his own posts! Contrast that with the treatment I witnessed last weekend. Rugby now allows a temporary substitution whilst players have a head injury properly assessed.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

I think the difference is that rugby (and recently football as well) have realised the errors of the past and taken measures to prevent it happening again. A friend of my dad's scored what was described as the greatest try ever scored at my home town rugby club, problem was he was concussed at the time and had run the full length of the field to touch down under his own posts! Contrast that with the treatment I witnessed last weekend. Rugby now allows a temporary substitution whilst players have a head injury properly assessed.

There's an old football story, which is told by about half a dozen people claiming it actually happened.

Basically it goes like this. A player is carried off with a head injury and the physio goes on to inspect him. The physio turns to the manager and says "Boss. It's serious. He doesn't know who he is". And the manager says "Good. Tell him he's Maradona and send him back on".

Richmond Racer

Pross wrote:

I think the difference is that rugby (and recently football as well) have realised the errors of the past and taken measures to prevent it happening again. A friend of my dad's scored what was described as the greatest try ever scored at my home town rugby club, problem was he was concussed at the time and had run the full length of the field to touch down under his own posts! Contrast that with the treatment I witnessed last weekend. Rugby now allows a temporary substitution whilst players have a head injury properly assessed.

I see your point.

I read an absolutely heart-breaking article by a woman whose son died from Second Impact Concussion after playing a school rugby match. He took a number of really bad hits to the head, got sent off 3 times for treatment and was sent back into the game each time.

At the inquest the ref admitted he had thought some of the players were being prima donnas and drama queens.

The_Boy

Pross wrote:

I think the difference is that rugby (and recently football as well) have realised the errors of the past and taken measures to prevent it happening again. A friend of my dad's scored what was described as the greatest try ever scored at my home town rugby club, problem was he was concussed at the time and had run the full length of the field to touch down under his own posts! Contrast that with the treatment I witnessed last weekend. Rugby now allows a temporary substitution whilst players have a head injury properly assessed.

Indeed. I was only really quoting the tale of Yachvili to show the dangers of a macho culture where an athlete will ride/play on regardless provided the rules allow. In those situation someone else really needs to take control and pull the athlete for their own good, but it's obviously a difficult call to make. And as someone else points out, in cycling you can't stop play while you make the assessment.

rick_chasey

Wuyts has been banging on about it ever since the last two crash fests.

Anonymous

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

I think the difference is that rugby (and recently football as well) have realised the errors of the past and taken measures to prevent it happening again. A friend of my dad's scored what was described as the greatest try ever scored at my home town rugby club, problem was he was concussed at the time and had run the full length of the field to touch down under his own posts! Contrast that with the treatment I witnessed last weekend. Rugby now allows a temporary substitution whilst players have a head injury properly assessed.

There's an old football story, which is told by about half a dozen people claiming it actually happened.

Basically it goes like this. A player is carried off with a head injury and the physio goes on to inspect him. The physio turns to the manager and says "Boss. It's serious. He doesn't know who he is". And the manager says "Good. Tell him he's Maradona and send him back on".

I'm sure it was Brain Clough

deejay

I stopped taking Tramadol some years ago because my eyes watered that I couldn't see.
The other symptom was dizziness.
It is on record that I am allergic to that product.

alihisgreat

deejay wrote:

I stopped taking Tramadol some years ago because my eyes watered that I couldn't see.
The other symptom was dizziness.
It is on record that I am allergic to that product.

Tramadol is nasty stuff.. I kept throwing it up when they were giving it to me after an appendectomy..

can't imagine anyone feeling great on it.. especially in a bike race! Madness :shock:

dish_dash

Another excellent piece from INRNG. http://www.inrng.com/2014/04/tramadol

Also clarified what the Lotto doctor said. And a little smackdown on Xenon in the comments section as well.

frenchfighter

Maybe that is why Terpstra threw his bottle away in disgust - it was only water and not a 'finish bottle' : )

dolan_driver

The one thing thrown up by the question of the use of Tramadol in the peloton is that many riders are still prepared to take "something" if they believe it will enhance their performance. The fact that this or any other painkiller is not on the banned list isn't the issue at the moment, it is the fact that some riders still seek (albeit legal, in this case) performance enhancement from pharmaceuticals. Some in the peloton still need to adjust their mindset further before we can truly say cycling is getting its house in order.

DD.