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Disc Cyclocross bikes - in particular the Rose Pro DX Cross

jimmmjimmm Posts: 202
edited August 2014 in Cyclocross
I'm looking to get an aluminium disc Cyclocross bike with a budget of around £1,200. It will be used for weekend rides, and also dry and light rain commutes (6.5 miles each way). I was initially going to get a cheaper hybrid (budget of £600 - had a thread in the Commuting section) - but now my commuting circumstances have changed and I can get a lift during horrible weather and in cold months. I have therefore upped my budget and decided to invest in a do-it-all bike. A disc Cyclocross bike seems to be the perfect fit for this. My weekend rides will consist of road and sometimes gravel tracks, whilst my commute is all on road.

I've been researching for quite a while and the two stand out brands for value are Canyon and Rose. Canyon have unfortunately sold out of my size in the two CX bikes I was interested in, which has made my decision easier! Rose bikes seem like excellent value for money and, by the sounds of things, they ride very well (not many reviews around though!). Customer service is supposed to be excellent too. The two bikes that have my interest are:

- Rose Pro DX Cross-2000 (Shimano 105) - £1,012.23 - http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-pro-dx-cross-2000-2014//aid:692275
- Rose Pro DX Cross-3000 (Shimano Ultegra) - £1,266.35 - http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-pro-dx-cross-3000-2014//aid:692362

Does anyone have a Rose DX Cross bike (or a Rose bike)? If so, it would be great to get some feedback from you please. I am pretty sure the 7005 T6 Ultralight Aluminium, triple butted frame can take mud guards - but not sure if someone here could confirm 100% either way? (The 2012 frame could - http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12833978)

Also, what crankset and sprocket setup would be best suited to my needs? - which is mostly road riding, with some light off-road? The choice of crankset for the Ultegra setup is Compact (which I believe is 50/34) and 46/36. Sprocket choices are 12-25, 11-23, 11-25, 11-28 and 11-32.

Thank you in advance for any feedback.
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  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,216
    get a 11-32 rear cassette if you have the choice... as you go off road, you will realise you're always short of gears. Compact only if you can get a 50 x 36 or 48 x 34... I don't like the 50 x 34... the big jump is prone to chain drops
  • jimmmjimmm Posts: 202
    Thanks for the feedback.

    11-32 is an option, so I can get that. Unfortunately the only options for the crankset are 50/34 or 46/36. I think out of those two, the 50/34 is the better range for road riding?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,216
    I would go for 36/46... 46 x 11-14 are pretty big gears
  • jomojjomoj Posts: 777
    +1 for the 46/36. I have a 48/36 which will give a pretty good top end (for me) and a reliable shift.
  • jimmmjimmm Posts: 202
    Reliability is important. But I don't want to be spinning out on hills, or finding some hills to hard to cycle up when on road - so need quite a wide range of gears.

    Jomoj, is that gearing setup for a cx or road bike?

    Is there an article explaining or could someone please explain what the different numbers mean for the crankset and sprocket?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,216
    It's the ratio...

    34 x 32 will give you 1.06
    36 x 32 will give you 1.12

    Multiply that by the girth of your tyre and you get just over 2 metres in each case, so very similar

    46 x 11 will give you 4.18
    53 x 11 will give you 4.81

    There is some difference here, but it's not a lot... to be honest I hardly ever use ratios which develop more than 4 times the girth of the tyre... that is in excess of 9 metres per pedal turn, if you pedal at 90 rpm, you will go at 31 mph, if you pedal at 100 rpm, then you will go at 34 mph, 120 rpm will get you to 40 mph
  • monkeysm8monkeysm8 Posts: 191
    I'm looking at that exact bike. It does have guard mounts (look halfway up the fork leg). fro ma thread I created on STW the one owner who has one, loves hers.
  • jimmmjimmm Posts: 202
    monkeysm8 wrote:
    I'm looking at that exact bike. It does have guard mounts (look halfway up the fork leg). fro ma thread I created on STW the one owner who has one, loves hers.

    I'm definitely going for the Rose Pro DX Cross-3000 - but I'm still trying to decide on my gearing setup. I also can't decide what colour frame to get - anodized black or the shiny white. They both look great!
    It's the ratio...

    34 x 32 will give you 1.06
    36 x 32 will give you 1.12

    Multiply that by the girth of your tyre and you get just over 2 metres in each case, so very similar

    46 x 11 will give you 4.18
    53 x 11 will give you 4.81

    There is some difference here, but it's not a lot... to be honest I hardly ever use ratios which develop more than 4 times the girth of the tyre... that is in excess of 9 metres per pedal turn, if you pedal at 90 rpm, you will go at 31 mph, if you pedal at 100 rpm, then you will go at 34 mph, 120 rpm will get you to 40 mph

    Thanks for the help Ugo. Makes a lot more sense now.
  • jomojjomoj Posts: 777
    if you want to work this out yourself:

    ((Front teeth / rear teeth) x 2.1m x pedal RPM x 60) / 1000 = speed in km/h
    multiply this by 0.62 to get the mph

    2.1m is the approx circumference of a 700 x 25c tyre
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,534
    or

    ((Front teeth / rear teeth) x 2.1m x pedal RPM x 60) / 1609 = speed in mph
  • jimmmjimmm Posts: 202
    Rose bikes have recommended a 50/34 and 11-28 setup for the sort of riding I will be doing (mostly road, with some gravel track). Anyone have experience with this setup?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,216
    It will be fine.
    that said, I never liked the 50x34... the 16 teeth drop is too large, which comes with two drawbacks

    1) you constantly need to drop 2-3 sprockets when going from large to small
    2) the chances of the chain falling when going from large to small are much greater. I have hardly ever dropped a chain on a 53 x39 and never on the 49x39 I have now... but when I was on a compact, it did happen frequently... you might argue it wasn't setup properly but I have set up all the other systems I have used, hence...
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,534
    Lots of bikes are specced with that. It would maybe be geared a little high for proper CX riding, which is mainly off road, but for what you suggest it would be my personal gearing of choice.

    Ugo said he doesnt like the big jump between 50 & 34 but its that jump which makes it so versatile and I have never had a chain drop off mine in many thousands of miles. I dont normally disagree with him and hesitate to do so here as he has more experience than me but I would not worry about it. I wouldnt fall out with his suggestion that 48/34 would be fine - I am sure you wouldnt notice the lack of top end but I am not sure how easy it would be to find a chainset with that configuration.

    If you try but dont get on with the 50/34 then you could always change the rings later...
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,534
    Ugo beat me to it.

    In response to his 1) yes, you may find that when you switch rings up front it is necessary to switch a cog or two in the opposite direction at the back to even out the big change although to some degree you get used to compensating for that and changing the ring at the front earlier/later to even it out, to the point where you dont always realise you are doing it.
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,824
    I am used to 34x50, it is a big drop but with Campag Ultrashift its easy to shift the rear by 3-5 cogs when also changing the front. I have had issues with the chain falling off when changing from the 50 to the 34, again Ultrashift makes it easier since I can push the shifter button for 2-3 clicks and not all the way home. Alternatively you can get a chain guard thingy to stop the chain from falling off.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
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  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,216
    The thing is that even whan I had a compact, I never used the 11-13 teeth, so while a 34 is useful, anything bigger than a 48 has little point if you don't race. I have never tried a 46, but judging by the ratios you can get, it should be plenty.
    It's not about having a huge range, it's about having a good range that works for you... using the same gears PRO use is cool, but half the range is wasted
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,534
    I am only an 'enthusiastic ameteur' and not particularly fast but I do use the 50x11 combination where I have some long gentle downhills near me that I want to push on and I could even do with more but find this the best compromise. I am sure I wouldnt be upset if the top was only 48 but would not want to go as low as 46.

    And at the risk of tempting fate, I have NEVER had the chain fall off when changing down at the front, and that is with a Microsh*t front mech which are slated and most people replace. I am about to replace mine soon, largely because everyone keeps telling me that Shimano would be better. I just hope that Shimano doesnt mean the chain falls off. Could it be that where people get this is because they havent set the limit screws properly?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,216
    apreading wrote:
    And at the risk of tempting fate, I have NEVER had the chain fall off when changing down at the front, and that is with a Microsh*t front mech which are slated and most people replace. I am about to replace mine soon, largely because everyone keeps telling me that Shimano would be better.

    If yours work flawlessly, how can you buy into the idea that Shimano works better?
    apreading wrote:
    Could it be that where people get this is because they havent set the limit screws properly?

    We're not ALL born yesterday... :wink:
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,534
    Mine got quite stiff over the winter - in fact it seized up at one point and took alot of work to get it moving again. Its still not quite as easy to pull as it used to be, so possibly time to replace anyway. Thought I would try the Shimano as I got one at a silly price and everyone on the Boardman CX thread says they are so much better - thought I would see what all the fuss was about.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,216
    I've got the Ultegra top pull for CX, it is very good
  • devhadsdevhads Posts: 236
    Don't want to hijack the thread but as it came up..

    Ugo - I've got the CX70 top pull and when I was in my LBS yesterday the mechanic said he thought the cable routing was wrong. He did admit he'd never worked on a top pull like this before. Is this how yours goes.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/13622179825/
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,216
    No, mine is routed on the outer part of the nut, where there is a slot for it and then the cable run downwards for an inch or so, then I bent it inwards and chopped it.
    I am not 100% it is the correct way to route it, to be honest, but it works fine
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    CX70 Front mech is routed wrong - but they even work with Campagnolo shifters!

    I agree with Ugo on 50x34 front shifts being unreliable - obviously some of the posters have never raced CX where the chain is slapping and flapping - I prefer to run 46x36 for faster, cleaner shifts.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,534
    I should have said - I dont run my 50/34 for cyclocross - if off road I have an MTB. Didnt sound to me like the OP was actually looking to ride CX either, so maybe if that is where the problems with 50/34 lie he wouldnt have a problem.
  • RiggedRigged Posts: 214
    I've recently taken delivery of the Rose Pro DX Cross 4400 and I'm really impressed so far. I went for the 34-50 11-28 set up and that's been pretty perfect for my riding so far. I've not run out of gears either way yet and the SRAM shifting is a delight! I'd describe my riding as 80% on road with 20% on the rougher, muddy stuff.
  • matt@theforce[email protected] Posts: 647
    edited April 2014
    I've had a 50/39 28x11 on my road bike and that was a great setup for my road commute & weekend riding, I change to a cx bike last year and run 46/36 32x11 on that. I do miss my 50t sometimes but in all fairness my commuting times aren't any slower on my cx bike vs my road bike.

    When I've worn my chainrings to a point they need replacing I'll keep the 36t but I'll change my 46t for a 48t for the long gradual decents that I encounter but I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of a compact as the closeness of the cx setup is great and I don't need to change at the back when changing gear at front.
  • jimmmjimmm Posts: 202
    Thanks for all the feedback guys. I'm going for the compact 50/34 11-28 setup. Pretty certain it will meet my needs.

    Finally getting round to buying my Rose Pro DX Cross tonight - but stuck on what size/width tyre to get. Options are 700x28, 700x32 or 700x35. What would be best for mostly road, but the option to go on gravel track if needed? The tyres are Schwalbe Marathon Supreme and the wheelset is Mavic Crossone 29".
  • jomojjomoj Posts: 777
    My choice would be the 28 then the 32. 35 would be overkill. I batter my bike down all sorts of stuff on slick 28s FWIW. Mostly fine but sometimes a bit more width would be nice.
  • jimmmjimmm Posts: 202
    Think I will go with the 32s. Or potentially I could go 28 on the front tyre with 32 on the rear?

    Anyone here have different width tyres front and rear?
  • jomojjomoj Posts: 777
    You could but I wouldn't bother personally. If they are the same size you can swap them round when the rear starts to wear
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