Team Sky - Giro Leadership

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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    ...
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    If SKY are not going to the Giro to boss the GC, then I would think this is exactly the kind of thing Dombrowski should be doing

    What? Hammering an already injured knee and potentially ruining his career? Surely he is better off coming back slowly in lesser races until they are confident the problem has been fixed? I would have thought Boswell would be a better option at present.

    I thought his knee was now fine? And also, post the whole comment if quoting ... You removed the context for the initial statement ...

    I quoted the relevant bit, the context hasn't been changed. You would put a rider who has just DNFd in his first ride of the season following knee problems straight into a (his first) Grand Tour 6 weeks later for experience. I'm struggling to see how that would benefit anyone. Surely it's better to give him time to regain full fitness and go next year or, alternatively, give him a ride in the Vuelta? They have plenty of other riders who could ride to gain additional experience (Boswell, Henao Jr, Edmondson).

    If he still has a dodgy knee or no form at all, then fair enough ... But if the numbers and medical staff say he can ride then I'd have no hesitation in sticking him in race ... Gotta start somewhere, and he can withdraw ... I hear that's quite the trend ...

    Also nice to know JD's mum posts on the forum ...
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,588
    But if he's just going to ride and withdraw if necessary what experience is gained that he couldn't get at (for example) the Dauphine or Tour de Suisse? I'd love to see him ride the Giro but I want to see him do it properly rather than just turning up to justify himself.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    If SKY are not going to the Giro to boss the GC, then I would think this is exactly the kind of thing Dombrowski should be doing

    What? Hammering an already injured knee and potentially ruining his career? Surely he is better off coming back slowly in lesser races until they are confident the problem has been fixed? I would have thought Boswell would be a better option at present.

    I thought his knee was now fine? And also, post the whole comment if quoting ... You removed the context for the initial statement ...

    I quoted the relevant bit, the context hasn't been changed. You would put a rider who has just DNFd in his first ride of the season following knee problems straight into a (his first) Grand Tour 6 weeks later for experience. I'm struggling to see how that would benefit anyone. Surely it's better to give him time to regain full fitness and go next year or, alternatively, give him a ride in the Vuelta? They have plenty of other riders who could ride to gain additional experience (Boswell, Henao Jr, Edmondson).

    If he still has a dodgy knee or no form at all, then fair enough ... But if the numbers and medical staff say he can ride then I'd have no hesitation in sticking him in race ... Gotta start somewhere, and he can withdraw ... I hear that's quite the trend ...

    Also nice to know JD's mum posts on the forum ...


    Usual crass comment from BR's answer to The Smartest Guys in the Room
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,642
    Milton50 wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    They've got plenty of options but no standout favourites, why not have 3-4 joint leaders and tell them the decision will be made on the road. I'd like to see them give the likes of Thomas, Kennaugh, Nieve free reign and see if one can surprise them.

    This is what they should do. In the same way that splitting it between Uran and Wiggins would have been a good idea last year.

    I don't think it is what they will do though.

    I don't mind a team going into a Grand Tour with 2 options for the GC. But going in with 4 potential leaders and saying "we'll decide on the road" seems a bit of a muddle to me.

    I don't think any of Cataldo, Thomas, Nieve, or Kennaugh are capable of winning the Giro without the full support of the team.

    Plus I think it will get you into confused situations. For instance if Thomas is 50 seconds behind Quintana but has a much better TT, Cataldo is 30 seconds behind Quintana but Kennaugh, who is 45 seconds back, is looking stronger as the race goes on. How do you call it? If Thomas gets a puncture on a climb do you call both Kennuagh and Cataldo back? Just Kennuagh? Just Cataldo?

    In my mind Thomas, Kennaugh and Cataldo are all pretty similar in talent and ability. So you'd get a better overall result by backing one of them through the entire race.

    No one will know until a long way into the Giro which rider has the most form, so bet hedging is a much better idea. CSC might not have won the tour in 2008 if they had picked a pre-tour favourite. Basically they just need to see how it goes and make decisions on the fly, but that's not very Sky.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,744
    Milton50 wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    They've got plenty of options but no standout favourites, why not have 3-4 joint leaders and tell them the decision will be made on the road. I'd like to see them give the likes of Thomas, Kennaugh, Nieve free reign and see if one can surprise them.

    This is what they should do. In the same way that splitting it between Uran and Wiggins would have been a good idea last year.

    I don't think it is what they will do though.

    I don't mind a team going into a Grand Tour with 2 options for the GC. But going in with 4 potential leaders and saying "we'll decide on the road" seems a bit of a muddle to me.

    I don't think any of Cataldo, Thomas, Nieve, or Kennaugh are capable of winning the Giro without the full support of the team.

    Plus I think it will get you into confused situations. For instance if Thomas is 50 seconds behind Quintana but has a much better TT, Cataldo is 30 seconds behind Quintana but Kennaugh, who is 45 seconds back, is looking stronger as the race goes on. How do you call it? If Thomas gets a puncture on a climb do you call both Kennuagh and Cataldo back? Just Kennuagh? Just Cataldo?

    In my mind Thomas, Kennaugh and Cataldo are all pretty similar in talent and ability. So you'd get a better overall result by backing one of them through the entire race.

    Well you might if you can identify the strongest rider from the start. My point is maybe you use this as a chance to experiment, have a look at how they go riding for themselves in a three week grand tour. If you get a situation where all 4 are in contention and one gets into trouble well make a call there and then, you probably sacrifice that rider and they become a domestique from then on.

    If they are going to have one or two leaders though I'd give it Thomas followed by Kennaugh. Thomas because I think we need to see what he can do on GC and if the answer is not enough he concentrates on classics and becomes a super domestique in grand tours. Kennaugh because we don't want him to be getting to 28 or 29 still wondering what kind of rider he might be, if he could break through in this Giro he becomes a GC man for maybe 10 years. Physically he's already at his peak years, he needs to be racing to win to get that experience now.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    If SKY are not going to the Giro to boss the GC, then I would think this is exactly the kind of thing Dombrowski should be doing

    What? Hammering an already injured knee and potentially ruining his career? Surely he is better off coming back slowly in lesser races until they are confident the problem has been fixed? I would have thought Boswell would be a better option at present.

    I thought his knee was now fine? And also, post the whole comment if quoting ... You removed the context for the initial statement ...

    I quoted the relevant bit, the context hasn't been changed. You would put a rider who has just DNFd in his first ride of the season following knee problems straight into a (his first) Grand Tour 6 weeks later for experience. I'm struggling to see how that would benefit anyone. Surely it's better to give him time to regain full fitness and go next year or, alternatively, give him a ride in the Vuelta? They have plenty of other riders who could ride to gain additional experience (Boswell, Henao Jr, Edmondson).

    If he still has a dodgy knee or no form at all, then fair enough ... But if the numbers and medical staff say he can ride then I'd have no hesitation in sticking him in race ... Gotta start somewhere, and he can withdraw ... I hear that's quite the trend ...

    Also nice to know JD's mum posts on the forum ...




    Usual crass comment from BR's answer to The Smartest Guys in the Room

    Your dentist bill's must be quite high ... Suppose you could pay him in Pinarello's :wink:
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Pross wrote:
    But if he's just going to ride and withdraw if necessary what experience is gained that he couldn't get at (for example) the Dauphine or Tour de Suisse? I'd love to see him ride the Giro but I want to see him do it properly rather than just turning up to justify himself.

    1 week races don't give GT experience though ... Many riders go to a GT knowing they don't have what it takes to do the full 3 weeks ... I'm certain even Cav rode on the 'see how far you can go' principle at the TdF in 2007 ... Better to ride for 2 weeks and abandon than turn up for a week's racing ...

    Just my opinion ... JD will be 23 by the time the Giro rolls round, he's hardly a kid ...
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:

    Yes, SKY have never won anything apart from the Olympics...

    Was a tongue-in-cheek (mine, not Brailsford's) reference to some of the early SKY propaganda about motives for sponsorship etc ... and on Italian soil they've not exactly been on the form they have in other races (Froome's stage race credentials took an early set back at T-A last year and we know how the main feature in Italy ended up ...)

    Yep, with a podium place for the back up rider after the team leader withdrew. Pretty impressive wasn't it? :wink:

    I don't see arriving at 3rd on GC pretty much by accident as a success for anyone other than the rider himself ... Certainly wasn't an animator of any racing that I recall ...

    I mean he finished 2nd and was the only contender to take time out of Nibali on a MTF
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    sjmclean wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:

    Yes, SKY have never won anything apart from the Olympics...

    Was a tongue-in-cheek (mine, not Brailsford's) reference to some of the early SKY propaganda about motives for sponsorship etc ... and on Italian soil they've not exactly been on the form they have in other races (Froome's stage race credentials took an early set back at T-A last year and we know how the main feature in Italy ended up ...)

    Yep, with a podium place for the back up rider after the team leader withdrew. Pretty impressive wasn't it? :wink:

    I don't see arriving at 3rd on GC pretty much by accident as a success for anyone other than the rider himself ... Certainly wasn't an animator of any racing that I recall ...

    I mean he finished 2nd and was the only contender to take time out of Nibali on a MTF

    Keep up, I've already admitted I have no clue what went on even though I watched it ...
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Crankbrother wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:

    Yes, SKY have never won anything apart from the Olympics...

    Was a tongue-in-cheek (mine, not Brailsford's) reference to some of the early SKY propaganda about motives for sponsorship etc ... and on Italian soil they've not exactly been on the form they have in other races (Froome's stage race credentials took an early set back at T-A last year and we know how the main feature in Italy ended up ...)

    Yep, with a podium place for the back up rider after the team leader withdrew. Pretty impressive wasn't it? :wink:

    I don't see arriving at 3rd on GC pretty much by accident as a success for anyone other than the rider himself ... Certainly wasn't an animator of any racing that I recall ...

    I mean he finished 2nd and was the only contender to take time out of Nibali on a MTF

    Keep up, I've already admitted I have no clue what went on even though I watched it ...

    Sorry.
  • artstan
    artstan Posts: 27
    If Thomas is picked. I recommend this bit of kit. A must for the descents.
    1068_35.JPG
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,815
    artstan wrote:
    If Thomas is picked. I recommend this bit of kit. A must for the descents.
    1068_35.JPG

    Welcome back............or there again, perhaps not.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    If they are going to have one or two leaders though I'd give it Thomas followed by Kennaugh. Thomas because I think we need to see what he can do on GC and if the answer is not enough he concentrates on classics and becomes a super domestique in grand tours. Kennaugh because we don't want him to be getting to 28 or 29 still wondering what kind of rider he might be, if he could break through in this Giro he becomes a GC man for maybe 10 years. Physically he's already at his peak years, he needs to be racing to win to get that experience now

    Yeh I pretty much agree with that. Thomas has earned a shot at GC and if he is going to be a serious stage race contender (doubtful) then he hasn't got much more time to waste.

    Kennaugh has the potential to be a strong stage race rider in my opinion and if the team (and the numbers) agree with that then now is a good time for him to be co-leader of the Giro squad.

    That said I do like Cataldo and would enjoy seeing him have a proper crack at his home GT.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    I've sorted it out. Froome can lead at the Giro, Porte at the Tour. Seems a fair swap to me

    *innocent face*
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    I've sorted it out. Froome can lead at the Giro, Porte at the Tour. Seems a fair swap to me

    *innocent face*

    If it wasn't for Contador's form so far this year that wouldn't be a bad idea ... esp. with no Quintana at the TdF ...

    The Tour is just too big not have Froome there at peak form ... It's one of only 3 races with live coverage on UK tv (TdF/ToB/WC) so no way they would gamble their Brit(ish) champion ... (I know RR was only kidding but in an ideal world ...)
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    Rumors on Twitter this morning that EBH is going to get the gig. Apparently brailsford thinks he's got the all round ability for GC but is never going to find the top edge sprint to really go for it in the classics. They're not expecting much this season, they'll aim for top ten, they just want to give him the experience of leading a GT team.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Rumors on Twitter this morning that EBH is going to get the gig. Apparently brailsford thinks he's got the all round ability for GC but is never going to find the top edge sprint to really go for it in the classics. They're not expecting much this season, they'll aim for top ten, they just want to give him the experience of leading a GT team.


    Yes, it's April Fools Day
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,114
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Rumors on Twitter this morning that EBH is going to get the gig. Apparently brailsford thinks he's got the all round ability for GC but is never going to find the top edge sprint to really go for it in the classics. They're not expecting much this season, they'll aim for top ten, they just want to give him the experience of leading a GT team.

    That'll please Paul Kimmage no end.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Rumors on Twitter this morning that EBH is going to get the gig. Apparently brailsford thinks he's got the all round ability for GC but is never going to find the top edge sprint to really go for it in the classics. They're not expecting much this season, they'll aim for top ten, they just want to give him the experience of leading a GT team.


    Yes, it's April Fools Day

    Busted.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format

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