Team Sky - Giro Leadership

tom3
tom3 Posts: 287
edited April 2014 in Pro race
Should G or lil pete be given serious consideration with leadership, in light of Porte's poor form/injury.

Could give either valuable experience of leading at a grand tour without hype or extra pressure.
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Comments

  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    I'd give it lil' Pete above G, I think he's probably the better climber.
    @JaunePeril

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  • DL1987
    DL1987 Posts: 204
    I think they might go with Nieve if Porte isn't fit. He's had two top ten finishes in the Giro with EE in the past few years.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Maybe Kennaugh and Cataldo and taking Swift for some sprinting. They've all been showing some form. I think they'll want Nieve for the Tour. Especially with doubts about Henao.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Porte just picked up a stomach bug. I would expect him to be fighting fit for the Giro.
    DL1987 wrote:
    I think they might go with Nieve if Porte isn't fit. He's had two top ten finishes in the Giro with EE in the past few years.

    Nieve would be perfect for the Giro. His TT is poor but he would get a good overall place and potential stage wins. Not sure how much Sky want to help him though.

    Henao would be an obvious choice as well but Sky have messed him around. I suspect however that his 'training' back home will actually pay dividends on the road in Italy if he manages to ride.

    Wiggins with all the money they are paying him should be good to go at any time for a GT top ten, even if not a win. He isn't; but he should.

    Cataldo is an interesting one - consistently good TT rider and clearly got some decent talent in the mountains.

    Dobrow should be there. Not for the win but he theoretically should be well suited for the Giro.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    RichN's 'thinly spread GT talent pool' theory gets more support. None of the top squads can seemingly mount convincing campaigns for both Giro and Tour. A symptom of a sport in need of some serious autotuning.

    [Feck. Just posted in another motherfecking thread with That Team in title - current 'crit 17.89%]
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  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    They've got plenty of options but no standout favourites, why not have 3-4 joint leaders and tell them the decision will be made on the road. I'd like to see them give the likes of Thomas, Kennaugh, Nieve free reign and see if one can surprise them.

    I know this isn't optimum in terms of securing a high finishing position but they haven't got a huge amount to lose and longer term they might find out something about the likes of Thomas and how realistic any GCambitions are.

    As for Wiggins, if he goes well in the classics then he can be forgiven ot being in form to ride a good grand tour, but yeah a rider of his talent and on his wages should be competing for a big win whether in stage racing or one day.
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  • jam1e
    jam1e Posts: 1,068
    It's an ideal chance to throw a load of the younger riders in at the deep end and tell them to knock themselves out - Dombrowski, Henao the younger and Edmondson etc. Also Swift, who seems to be an increasingly good bet for hilly sprint stages.

    I think they'd prefer Thomas, Kennaugh and Nieve to be fresh for the Tour so would prefer them not to be battling for a Giro GC and I don't think Wiggins would work for anybody else whilst simultaneously not being in the right form to realistically race for himself given his current focus on whatever it is this week.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,890
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    They've got plenty of options but no standout favourites, why not have 3-4 joint leaders and tell them the decision will be made on the road. I'd like to see them give the likes of Thomas, Kennaugh, Nieve free reign and see if one can surprise them.

    This is what they should do. In the same way that splitting it between Uran and Wiggins would have been a good idea last year.

    I don't think it is what they will do though.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    If Porte doesn't ride, my guess is Cataldo will lead the team.

    He's got a few years experience under his belt, he can climb and he can TT. His race programme will have been built for him riding the Giro anyway. And a nice little bonus is he's Italian - which will go down well.

    Who suggested Dombro ride and get a chance? His knee injury has kept him out of all races so far this season, until Coppi e Bartali - and he had to abandon during st 3 with it. So he's hardly going to be ready for an inaugural 3 week lap of Italy starting in 5.5 weeks time.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Yeah Dombro should ride for experience and stage win attempts if he can get on a bike. No point putting riders in cotton wool - I guess that is the luxury of team Sky.

    Barguil is younger than Dombro but has shown himself to have flair, talent and desire. The guy already has two amazing Vuelta wins to his name and has given the fans many exciting moments.

    When I saw Dombro in the Baby Giro I was very impressed. Been downhill since he joined Sky. Holding out hope.

    Ps. how did he hurt his knee? Riding on the front too much?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Richie Porte ‏@richie_porte 1m
    Finally some proper spring weather. Nice day to cruise up la col de la Madone.

    8)
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  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Macaloon wrote:
    Richie Porte ‏@richie_porte 1m
    Finally some proper spring weather. Nice day to cruise up la col de la Madone.

    8)

    I guess he wants to ride. He might missed this although don't think Sky could equip him with similarly styled gear:
    PORTE-12.jpg

    When Froome was 'injured' he was also riding up climbs while others were fighting it out in Italy.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    TheBigBean wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    They've got plenty of options but no standout favourites, why not have 3-4 joint leaders and tell them the decision will be made on the road. I'd like to see them give the likes of Thomas, Kennaugh, Nieve free reign and see if one can surprise them.

    This is what they should do. In the same way that splitting it between Uran and Wiggins would have been a good idea last year.

    I don't think it is what they will do though.

    I don't mind a team going into a Grand Tour with 2 options for the GC. But going in with 4 potential leaders and saying "we'll decide on the road" seems a bit of a muddle to me.

    I don't think any of Cataldo, Thomas, Nieve, or Kennaugh are capable of winning the Giro without the full support of the team.

    Plus I think it will get you into confused situations. For instance if Thomas is 50 seconds behind Quintana but has a much better TT, Cataldo is 30 seconds behind Quintana but Kennaugh, who is 45 seconds back, is looking stronger as the race goes on. How do you call it? If Thomas gets a puncture on a climb do you call both Kennuagh and Cataldo back? Just Kennuagh? Just Cataldo?

    In my mind Thomas, Kennaugh and Cataldo are all pretty similar in talent and ability. So you'd get a better overall result by backing one of them through the entire race.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    Crankbrother wrote:
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:

    Yes, SKY have never won anything apart from the Olympics...
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  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Yeah Dombro should ride for experience and stage win attempts if he can get on a bike. No point putting riders in cotton wool - I guess that is the luxury of team Sky.

    Barguil is younger than Dombro but has shown himself to have flair, talent and desire. The guy already has two amazing Vuelta wins to his name and has given the fans many exciting moments.

    When I saw Dombro in the Baby Giro I was very impressed. Been downhill since he joined Sky. Holding out hope.

    Ps. how did he hurt his knee? Riding on the front too much?


    Let me repeat myself. His. Knee. Is. Not. In. Good. Shape.

    So of all the things you could do to a rider - never mind a 22 year old, 2nd year neo pro, with his entire career stretching ahead of him - you think that sending him on his first GT is the best move for him, íf ´he can get on a bike´? :shock:

    Thank god you can only play team manager from the interwebz.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Possibly.

    Have you got a link to some info on his knee injury? I have only ever heard it from you.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    inseine wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:

    Yes, SKY have never won anything apart from the Olympics...

    Was a tongue-in-cheek (mine, not Brailsford's) reference to some of the early SKY propaganda about motives for sponsorship etc ... and on Italian soil they've not exactly been on the form they have in other races (Froome's stage race credentials took an early set back at T-A last year and we know how the main feature in Italy ended up ...)
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Possibly.

    Have you got a link to some info on his knee injury? I have only ever heard it from you.


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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    He's had it on and off for over a year, it was originally blamed on his new bike from what I can recall. I haven't seen anything on it recently but it had supposedly been sorted at the end of last year. One thing's certain, if it has continued to be a problem chucking him into a 3 week race before it has failed to get fully better would be irresponsible in the extreme especially for a rider who has never ridden a race of that length and who will have had limited training. Professional sport is littered with young talents who had to retire early due to being pressured into competing whilst injured. I guess the benefit of a top, well funded team in any sport is they are under less pressure to treat their athletes that way.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Crankbrother wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:

    Yes, SKY have never won anything apart from the Olympics...

    Was a tongue-in-cheek (mine, not Brailsford's) reference to some of the early SKY propaganda about motives for sponsorship etc ... and on Italian soil they've not exactly been on the form they have in other races (Froome's stage race credentials took an early set back at T-A last year and we know how the main feature in Italy ended up ...)

    Yep, with a podium place for the back up rider after the team leader withdrew. Pretty impressive wasn't it? :wink:
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,436
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Possibly.

    Have you got a link to some info on his knee injury? I have only ever heard it from you.

    http://bit.ly/1dHCsKq
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    If SKY are not going to the Giro to boss the GC, then I would think this is exactly the kind of thing Dombrowski should be doing ... Get some experience of GT's and also get some data on how his body is reacting to 3 weeks of racing ... Phinney, Porte etc. all done it and went on to be better riders for their experience ...
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Milton50 wrote:
    I don't think any of Cataldo, Thomas, Nieve, or Kennaugh are capable of winning the Giro full stop

    Fixed.

    That said, it's not likely to be an overly strong field this year although Quintana should walk it barring injury and Porte getting well / coming into form.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Crankbrother wrote:
    If SKY are not going to the Giro to boss the GC, then I would think this is exactly the kind of thing Dombrowski should be doing

    What? Hammering an already injured knee and potentially ruining his career? Surely he is better off coming back slowly in lesser races until they are confident the problem has been fixed? I would have thought Boswell would be a better option at present.
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:

    Yes, SKY have never won anything apart from the Olympics...

    Was a tongue-in-cheek (mine, not Brailsford's) reference to some of the early SKY propaganda about motives for sponsorship etc ... and on Italian soil they've not exactly been on the form they have in other races (Froome's stage race credentials took an early set back at T-A last year and we know how the main feature in Italy ended up ...)

    Yep, with a podium place for the back up rider after the team leader withdrew. Pretty impressive wasn't it? :wink:

    I don't see arriving at 3rd on GC pretty much by accident as a success for anyone other than the rider himself ... Certainly wasn't an animator of any racing that I recall ...
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    If SKY are not going to the Giro to boss the GC, then I would think this is exactly the kind of thing Dombrowski should be doing

    What? Hammering an already injured knee and potentially ruining his career? Surely he is better off coming back slowly in lesser races until they are confident the problem has been fixed? I would have thought Boswell would be a better option at present.

    I thought his knee was now fine? And also, post the whole comment if quoting ... You removed the context for the initial statement ...
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    IF Sky want to show they are a team in their own right and not just an Olympic bandwagon spin-off, and their sponsor is serious about anything other than the London Olympics, the Giro should be their number one target ... They did claim it was all about raising Sky's presence in Italy after all ... :roll:

    Yes, SKY have never won anything apart from the Olympics...

    Was a tongue-in-cheek (mine, not Brailsford's) reference to some of the early SKY propaganda about motives for sponsorship etc ... and on Italian soil they've not exactly been on the form they have in other races (Froome's stage race credentials took an early set back at T-A last year and we know how the main feature in Italy ended up ...)

    Yep, with a podium place for the back up rider after the team leader withdrew. Pretty impressive wasn't it? :wink:

    I don't see arriving at 3rd on GC pretty much by accident as a success for anyone other than the rider himself ... Certainly wasn't an animator of any racing that I recall ...

    Was Cadel riding for Sky last year? :wink:
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    If SKY are not going to the Giro to boss the GC, then I would think this is exactly the kind of thing Dombrowski should be doing

    What? Hammering an already injured knee and potentially ruining his career? Surely he is better off coming back slowly in lesser races until they are confident the problem has been fixed? I would have thought Boswell would be a better option at present.

    I thought his knee was now fine? And also, post the whole comment if quoting ... You removed the context for the initial statement ...

    I quoted the relevant bit, the context hasn't been changed. You would put a rider who has just DNFd in his first ride of the season following knee problems straight into a (his first) Grand Tour 6 weeks later for experience. I'm struggling to see how that would benefit anyone. Surely it's better to give him time to regain full fitness and go next year or, alternatively, give him a ride in the Vuelta? They have plenty of other riders who could ride to gain additional experience (Boswell, Henao Jr, Edmondson).
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    ^ 2 above ...

    Oh Dear ... He was 2nd, and won a stage ... I watched every stage of that race as well ... I'll just shush and leave it to the Pro's(s) ...

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