Exotic frame builders?

jamie4759

Hi all, as nice as Rourke, Mercian and the other home grown frames are, has anyone out there ever purchased or ridden the more exotic frames such as Moots, Independent fabrication, Seven etc? I know they are very expensive but what extra do you get for your money? I have always liked Lynskeys but I frequently read reports of frame breakages and other horror stories. Any views on the Lynskeys or the other US frame builders? I would especially like to hear from anyone who has had experiences of Moots and Independent Fabrication, good or bad.

napoleond

Ironic that Americans find Rourke, Mercian etc 'exotic'.

neeb

JAMIE4759 wrote:

what extra do you get for your money?

For steel frames at least, mainly frippery such as lugs, ultra-smooth fillet brazing, fancy head badges etc. Won't make the frame ride any better and often adds significant weight.

Nothing wrong with extravagant craftsmanship and owning something unique of course, but if you have a "form following function" aesthetic what matters is the tubeset and the geometry (and competent welding of course).

ugo.santalucia

Why don't you head to Bespoked Bike in London in a couple of weeks? You'll find out there is far more than Mercian... loads of exciting UK based frame builders

jamie4759

Good point. I suppose another potential issue could be that buying a frame from someone like Moots could cause problems if it had to be sent back to the US, but you could have that with anything I suppose. Recently Campagnolo had some of my shifters for 4 months!!!!!

foggymike

Have a look at Ricky Feather (feather cycles). Beautiful frames immaculately made by one bloke in a shed in Yorkshire. Now that's exotic.

marcusjb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Why don't you head to Bespoked Bike in London in a couple of weeks? You'll find out there is far more than Mercian... loads of exciting UK based frame builders

Totally. There is so much good stuff going on in the uk now. The traditional builders like Rourke and Mercian will always have a place, but there are some very exciting builders doing some amazing stuff.

Yet again, I won't make it to bespoked this year.

All that said, I am awaiting a bit of US exotic steel currently!

dennisn

neeb wrote:

JAMIE4759 wrote:

what extra do you get for your money?

For steel frames at least, mainly frippery such as lugs, ultra-smooth fillet brazing, fancy head badges etc. Won't make the frame ride any better and often adds significant weight.

Nothing wrong with extravagant craftsmanship and owning something unique of course, but if you have a "form following function" aesthetic what matters is the tubeset and the geometry (and competent welding of course).

I would agree and add that functionally you're not going to get any more of a bike by buying a so called "exotic" frame than an off the shelf mid to upper range mass produced frame. Prettier? Most likely. Costlier? For sure. Unique? I would hope so for the prices they charge. Ride or race ready? Well, for me, I'm sure as hell not gonna pay out all that money and not ride the damn thing(and daily).

FransJacques

When you say exotic, would you consider Thai exotic. or is that too mainstream? Burma perhaps.

Really exotic would be a Yemenese frame-builder. There must be at least one retul place in Sanaa or Aiden...

The most exotic would be North Korean. Of course dropping by the framebuilder might be difficult, but I guaranee that no one on your block would have one

If you want normal, western exotic then Crumpton, Rewel or Calfee get my vote, but there are 1000s of them already.

drlodge

JAMIE4759 wrote:

Hi all, as nice as Rourke, Mercian and the other home grown frames are, has anyone out there ever purchased or ridden the more exotic frames such as Moots, Independent fabrication, Seven etc? I know they are very expensive but what extra do you get for your money? I have always liked Lynskeys but I frequently read reports of frame breakages and other horror stories. Any views on the Lynskeys or the other US frame builders? I would especially like to hear from anyone who has had experiences of Moots and Independent Fabrication, good or bad.

Depends what you want, and what you mean by "exotic".

Rourke will build you a very nice 953 frame, totally custom and will fit you like a glove. Their frames are very "clean" looking and TIG welded.

Ricky Feather on the other hand is a one man show, he will put more hours into your frame and add more finishing details. Nothing is out of bounds, he will make things up, spend hours over the tinest detail if you want it, whereas Rourke's frames will all "look" much the same. Ricky's frames tend to be lugged or brazed, and I would say more "artisan". You may have to pay more, and you will certainly have to wait in line.

Or do you want a frame built by someone that no one has heard of?

What you get at the top end is a frame/bike that is built to your specification, so it depends what you want and how much you are prepared to pay.

twgh

Matthew at Saffron Frameworks is building my bike (which is being shown at Bespoked). He has been an absolute pleasure to work with and the frame is 100 times better looking than I could have imagined. As for ride quality I can't comment yet but I would be shocked if it was anything but amazing.

crankycrank

JAMIE4759 wrote:

Hi all, as nice as Rourke, Mercian and the other home grown frames are, has anyone out there ever purchased or ridden the more exotic frames such as Moots, Independent fabrication, Seven etc? I know they are very expensive but what extra do you get for your money? I have always liked Lynskeys but I frequently read reports of frame breakages and other horror stories. Any views on the Lynskeys or the other US frame builders? I would especially like to hear from anyone who has had experiences of Moots and Independent Fabrication, good or bad.

I'm American but can tell you that there is nothing you can get from here that will be any better than what your UK builders are making and yours are usually less expensive as well. Lynskey had a problem for awhile with either bad welds or trying to use too thin tubing to save weight. I can't remember which it was exactly but other Ti builders have had the same problem and I believe Lynskey has corrected this since then. Ti is much less forgiving than steel if not welded properly but good builders know how to do it right. IMO give some of the UK builders a call and talk to them about what you have in mind for a bike.

nathancom

twgh wrote:

Matthew at Saffron Frameworks is building my bike (which is being shown at Bespoked). He has been an absolute pleasure to work with and the frame is 100 times better looking than I could have imagined. As for ride quality I can't comment yet but I would be shocked if it was anything but amazing.

I hadn't seen Saffron frames before, very nice. Demon frameworks is also worth looking at.

I don't see any need to look beyond UK for the best quality steel frames, in either exotic or more traditional flavours.

Monty Dog

I wouldn't class Lynskey as exotic as they're pretty large-scale and they're certainly not in the same league as Dean, Moots or Eriksen (Moots founder) as far as US titanium builders go - others to lool at include Baum or Passoni. In terms of steel frames, as well as Baum, Pegoretti, Sacha White/Vanilla and English are making some interesting bikes for example. Going through a similar thought process myself as I'm nearing my 5-0 and want something interesting and unique - a carbon frame will look very dated, very soon in comparison. I like Speedvagen too (semi-custom by Vanilla) but they don't appear to be doing a disc-brake frame at the moment. I don't doubt the quality of some UK builders, but having grown-up on a diet of fairly ordinary, British frames there's not many that float my boat.

on-yer-bike

Pegoretti will give you a fantastic frame and a very exotic, quirky paint job if you desire. A couple of people who have ridden mine thought it was the best bike they'd ever ridden. It aint a comfy steel cruiser though. Someone said there is an article about him in the new Cyclist mag. An ex elite racer friend bought himself one for his 50th after riding mine. Baum are Australian and they look nice.

jamie4759

marcusjb wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Why don't you head to Bespoked Bike in London in a couple of weeks? You'll find out there is far more than Mercian... loads of exciting UK based frame builders

Totally. There is so much good stuff going on in the uk now. The traditional builders like Rourke and Mercian will always have a place, but there are some very exciting builders doing some amazing stuff.

Yet again, I won't make it to bespoked this year.

All that said, I am awaiting a bit of US exotic steel currently!

wHICH ONE ARE YOU GOING FOR, AND WHY?

jamie4759

Lots to ponder really. I Moots and Independent Fabrication and I prefer TI really. My ex-Rourke bike was nice but too long in the TT. I think a top end TI frame would be the way forward. Indy Fab or Moots I think. Any views on these two?

marcusjb

JAMIE4759 wrote:

marcusjb wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Why don't you head to Bespoked Bike in London in a couple of weeks? You'll find out there is far more than Mercian... loads of exciting UK based frame builders

Totally. There is so much good stuff going on in the uk now. The traditional builders like Rourke and Mercian will always have a place, but there are some very exciting builders doing some amazing stuff.

Yet again, I won't make it to bespoked this year.

All that said, I am awaiting a bit of US exotic steel currently!

wHICH ONE ARE YOU GOING FOR, AND WHY?

tHE KIND THAT VERY FEW BUILDERS IN THE UK HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO BUILD (A NEW TANDEM WITH SOME PRETTY TRICK BITS).

LegendLust

JAMIE4759 wrote:

Lots to ponder really. I Moots and Independent Fabrication and I prefer TI really. My ex-Rourke bike was nice but too long in the TT. I think a top end TI frame would be the way forward. Indy Fab or Moots I think. Any views on these two?

What's making you go for US titanium builders? Have you looked at the titanium frames coming out of Italy like Legend, Passoni, Crisp etc?

letap73

Donhou, Shand and Paulus Quiros.

jamie4759

I don't know why the US really. I think the Moots and IF bikes are the ones I really like.

glasgowbhoy

Dengfu, they're exotic. Made in a far away land called China

meesterbond

JAMIE4759 wrote:

I don't know why the US really. I think the Moots and IF bikes are the ones I really like.

If you like those then also check out Eriksen and Firefly. Both do Ti just as nicely as Moots and Indy Fab, just a question of which take your fancy.

Bespoke Cycles in Shoreditch are 'dealers' for all of these (except IF I think).

I've got a milestone birthday coming up next year and seriously considering one of the above for a general CX / winter / JRA road bike. Probably edging towards an Indy Fab Ti Planet Cross but haven't really started the search yet.

darkhairedlord

Glasgowbhoy wrote:

Dengfu, they're exotic. Made in a far away land called China

Custom build to your own design and geometry then put your own decals on it.
About as "exotic" as it gets.

LegendLust

darkhairedlord wrote:

Glasgowbhoy wrote:

Dengfu, they're exotic. Made in a far away land called China

Custom build to your own design and geometry then put your own decals on it.
About as "exotic" as it gets.

Don't know about the US builders but the Italians will custom build their Ti bikes made to measure anyway.

Camcycle1974

JAMIE4759 wrote:

I don't know why the US really. I think the Moots and IF bikes are the ones I really like.

De Rosa did a TI frame in their recent 60 year anniversary range. It was absolutely beautiful but well it should be for £10,000! Custom Enigma?

jamie4759

I did look at Eriksen and Firefly but the wait is horrendous. But, if you want quality then that may be worth it. Still not sure, whichever I go for, it will involve lots of saving no doubt!!!!

ugo.santalucia

Camcycle1974 wrote:

JAMIE4759 wrote:

I don't know why the US really. I think the Moots and IF bikes are the ones I really like.

De Rosa did a TI frame in their recent 60 year anniversary range. It was absolutely beautiful but well it should be for £10,000! Custom Enigma?

De Rosa should get real... it's only a bunch of pipes welded together... there is only so much bullsxxit people can take...

Camcycle1974

Lol, it was nice but not 10 grand nice! The carbon version was even more. Steel the cheapest at about £8000!

matt_n-2

Baum have to be in the short list if you want Ti.

At the LBS, two guys have Pegorettis on order and my mate who works there is off to OZ in June to place his Baum order and is hoping to speak to Darren and bespoked in a few weeks.

matt_n-2

on-yer-bike wrote:

Pegoretti will give you a fantastic frame and a very exotic, quirky paint job if you desire. A couple of people who have ridden mine thought it was the best bike they'd ever ridden. It aint a comfy steel cruiser though. Someone said there is an article about him in the new Cyclist mag. An ex elite racer friend bought himself one for his 50th after riding mine. Baum are Australian and they look nice.

Dario hasn't been in Cyclist since a very early issue afaik, definitely not in Aprils anyway.