Video cameras banned by BC

rockmonkeysc

British Cycling have banned the use of video cameras on bike and rider in all racing.
Apparently it's to stop people using the film as evidence to sue BC over accidents in races. I don't ever use mine at races but it's a shame that they are banned. No more on board videos of crazy, flat out runs by the best riders.
It will probably mean some riders loosing sponsorship from companies like gopro.
I can't see it being good for the sport. Even Americans think its crazy and they love suing everyone.

rockmonkeysc

Not according to BC it's not. Broadcasting rights aren't big money in national level mountain biking.

cooldad

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

rockmonkeysc

Fair point but a lot of racers use them to review their practice and look for mistakes and possible gains.

lugsey2k5

Its a stupid idea, i regularly use video footage to check out races before i sign up to see if they look worth doing.

Its only going to reduce the number of people trying races and watching the sport.

peter413

Honestly I don't believe a word BC says about camera's anymore. I've heard so many different excuses from the same person even (official commissaire's at races so they should be able to give a reason really I would have thought). But this is nothing new, they've been "banning" them for a few years now for race runs.

When I say banning I of course mean they'll ignore it for the most part then target one or two easy targets and if you're doing it for broadcasting (which has been paid for) then it's allowed so that straight away takes away the safety reason especially when it was allowed during practice. One of these "safety reason" was that camera's can make people so stupid things and take bigger risks. Racing doesn't do that either does it :roll: I've even been told it's because they don't want any glass on the track and one commissaire tried to tell me I wasn't allowed to wear a watch... They can be reasonable as well though, like at a night DH race they allowed camera's with no threat of punishment because it was such a unique event so felt people should be able to record it.

Then there was different people interpreting the ruling differently. Some would allow any camera except on the helmet, some would allow any but chest camera, some would allow a camera so long as it was only attached to the bike etc. etc.

Then there is also the argument that BC only do things because the UCI do. From what I heard BC didn't release official enduro rules immediately because the UCI said they were going to and BC were just going to copy them (remember the full face rule?) but they never did so BC didn't bother (hence how the full face rule didn't happen). Now obviously I don't have anything to do with BC so that could be untrue.

Not sure how having camera's banned will stop people racing though and I really don't think it will affect outright numbers (if someone does decide not to race because of this there's probably someone else who will fill their spot).

Prowlus

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

And what is wrong with "cr4p random youtube footage"?
I have 2 gopros . A HERO 3 black and HERO 3 black + which I interchange between mountain and racer bikes I use to record trails and possibly convict any naughty driver that crosses my path .
They may be random to you but such footage can be useful for others who may want to experience a potential riding area before actually visiting it

peter413

Just read Wideopen's coverage of this. It's here for anyone who hasn't seen it. All I can say is it's full of even more bullshit than I expected. For example:

Strictly no helmet or action cameras permitted, both for practice and racing. As per regulation 3.2.7, all equipment not essential for racing purposes must be removed.

Surely there's plenty of kit people wear/use that's "non essential". People wearing jewellery, I doubt that's essential but is it banned? Watches, are they banned? (Look at my previous post at why one commissaire tried to ban me from wearing mine, nothing to do with the fact it was "non essential" when you could argue it is because otherwise how else are you going to know what time it is). Certain items of clothing, they aren't essential for racing purposes. And then there are the little modifications some riders make to their bikes like little fluffy toys taped to the bike, they sure aren't essential but I don't see them being banned.

Then there's:

It comes, we’re told, from British Cycling’s increasing nervousness about legal action following accidents at their events. Riders (allegedly) are using the footage as evidence to pursue legal claims against BC which is meaning they are being successfully sued.

Now I'm no expert in this sort of thing so I could be completely wrong here but surely if they are being successfully sued because of evidence then it shows that there is something they should have done differently that could have prevented it from happening. Not a BC race but what about that footage recently of the guy nearly killing an old lady at an urban race because the marshal allegedly wasn't paying proper attention to the track allowing them to cross with a rider coming. Are they going to ban track-side cameras as well since they could be used in evidence against them. I'm also thinking about off the track, say in a dispute with a commissaire about a decision they have made towards you or if they are being abusive towards you. If you are able to record this and submit it as evidence then it can't really be ignored but if there is no evidence then a complaint could easily be ignored and it could happen again and again.

It’s worth pointing out that the ban won’t be absolute. Organisers will be allowed to apply for dispensation for cameras to be used, early in practice at each of their events and to be used by riders of their choosing.

This, IMO, almost makes it worse because it will mean different rules for different people, likely influenced by who you know and who you are.

poah

Media rights protection - if they are worried about being sued due to footage I'd be concerned about what they are hiding.

cooldad

Prowlus wrote:

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

And what is wrong with "cr4p random youtube footage"?

It's cr4p.

rockmonkeysc

cooldad wrote:

Prowlus wrote:

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

And what is wrong with "cr4p random youtube footage"?

It's cr4p.

Then don't watch it. The worst videos are hopeless slow, fat old (or young) farts riding around trail centres.
At least most racers are reasonably fast and don't take every chicken line.

poah

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Then don't watch it. The worst videos are hopeless slow, fat old (or young) farts riding around trail centres.
At least most racers are reasonably fast and don't take every chicken line.

I like the slow vids, makes me feel so much better about my abilities

rockmonkeysc

I'm sure BC come up with rules to suit road and track cycling first and then just apply them to mtb and bmx as well.
If you look on the bc website all the headlines are (nearly always) about road or track racing or events and I can't remember ever seeing anything about mountain biking in the bc news email.

shindig

It comes, we’re told, from British Cycling’s increasing nervousness about legal action following accidents at their events. Riders (allegedly) are using the footage as evidence to pursue legal claims against BC which is meaning they are being successfully sued.

Wow. What they are telling us is that they are [allegedly] causing incidents by using unsafe practices and are sued successfully for doing it because video cameras capture the incident.

So rather that take corrective actions to prevent any future incidents, they ban cameras to stop recording their ineptitude. What a bunch of muppets. Someone should report them the to HSE commission.

Monty Dog

I'm a BC Commissaire - rules are set by the UCI and adopted by BC, nothing to do with broadcast rights etc. It's simply to do with non-essential equipment potentially causing a problem for other riders. Numpty riding around with camera - camera falls off, numpty stops to recover 'precious' camera and gets clattered by other rider.

poah

Monty Dog wrote:

I'm a BC Commissaire - rules are set by the UCI and adopted by BC, nothing to do with broadcast rights etc. It's simply to do with non-essential equipment potentially causing a problem for other riders. Numpty riding around with camera - camera falls off, numpty stops to recover 'precious' camera and gets clattered by other rider.

who in their right mind would stop during a race to pick up a camera - cameras don't tend to fall off on even on a lot of crashes. its got media rights grab written all over it.

rockmonkeysc

Who's going to pay for media rights for anything other than international races? There's not enough interest in the sport for anyone to pay for even national races.

peter413

Monty Dog wrote:

Numpty riding around with camera - camera falls off, numpty stops to recover 'precious' camera and gets clattered by other rider.

You could say the same for goggles or a snapped chain (I've seen both happen) or a number of other things. Are they going to be banned?

TBH if that is the reason then IMHO a better solution would be to ensure the camera is attached properly before the run. This would allow riders to still record themselves and commissaires/BC could be safe in the knowledge that cameras aren't going to cause any problems. That way everybody's happy.

poah

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Who's going to pay for media rights for anything other than international races? There's not enough interest in the sport for anyone to pay for even national races.

true but you couldn't very well have one section have them and not the other. I'm assuming that all races covered by the UCI and BC will now have no rider coverage.

rockmonkeysc

Does the commisaire have time to check that every video camera is secure? If he/she does then they aren't doing a very good job of being a commisaire.

peter413

Honestly at every race I've been to, yes they do have time. There's nearly always more than one and they should be checking helmets and armour etc anyway.

rockmonkeysc

They don't check armour because you don't have to wear any and checking helmets involves a quick look as you line up to make sure your chin strap is done up and you have bar end plugs.

peter413

Actually they do check armour if it is mandatory by the race organisers rules. And checking that a camera is attached isn't exactly a long or hard job either. All it takes is a quick wiggle of it to check. Even that's overkill really, I don't think anyone actually wants to lose their camera anyway so the risk of it actually falling off is pretty low, I've only ever seen them fall off in a crash.

Kowalski675

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

So true.

rockmonkeysc

Kowalski675 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

So true.

How much of that is racing?

cooldad

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

So true.

How much of that is racing?

I suggest you carry out a survey to see, which should keep you busy for a few thousand years, and save the rest of us from your random ramblings.

bluechair84

If it's banned on grounds of 'non-essential equipment', I'm sure you could argue that it is essential to your racing because it's part of your legal protection, as a helmet is part of your physical protection. What leg would they have to stand on for telling you to remove it? They can hardly kick you out of the event under the guise of 'only legally inferior participants are allowed entry'...

rockmonkeysc

cooldad wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

So true.

How much of that is racing?

I suggest you carry out a survey to see, which should keep you busy for a few thousand years, and save the rest of us from your random ramblings.

You suggest that there are millions of crap racing videos on YouTube, I disagree. I believe that only a very small percentage of the crap mountain bike videos on youtube are racing. Most are talentless old farts wobbling around trail centres on their shiny new Orange 5.

cooldad

RockmonkeySC wrote:

cooldad wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

So true.

How much of that is racing?

I suggest you carry out a survey to see, which should keep you busy for a few thousand years, and save the rest of us from your random ramblings.

You suggest that there are millions of crap racing videos on YouTube, I disagree. I believe that only a very small percentage of the crap mountain bike videos on youtube are racing. Most are talentless old farts wobbling around trail centres on their shiny new Orange 5.

No, you are confused as usual. I said:

cooldad wrote:

What I said somewhere else - I think they should be banned from all MTB bikes - save us from millions of hours of cr4p random Youtube footage.

No mention of racing or otherwise.
So we actually agree on something. You are just too dozy to realise.

rockmonkeysc

A ban on cameras in racing will only cut the number of new racing videos. It won't save you from millions of hours of crap videos of lappierre zestys wobbling around cannock while the middle aged rider shouts "rad" and "gnarly".

DCR00

My 2 cents

I do find footage like this a bit boring, even when its a pro rider doing the riding

I much prefer watching it from an audience POV i.e. seeing them ride past the camera

The footage off video cameras doesn't really do the speed they are travelling at or the difficulty of the terrain much justice