Flagging KOM's

adr82

dilatory wrote:

Strava needs two things for the KOM system to be almost perfect in my opinion.

Firstly. Every result needs to have a wind direction + speed arrow next to it. Something like xcweather do. So you know how wind assisted it really was.

This would be cool, but it's not really feasible without actually going and measuring the wind at the segment itself. The type of data you get from weather services will give you an idea, but the position of trees/buildings/hills will all affect the local wind direction and speed. One or two guys I follow actually note the general wind speed+direction in their ride notes each time they go out which is good of them!

dilatory wrote:

Secondly and by far the more important I think is it needs monthly resets, not just to remain competitive, but to clear things out and give people incentive to get out and ride hard again.

Not sure that's a good idea - as you say it would make things more competitive, not less. You'd just get even more fighting/flagging over KOMs than there is now.

For me, a great feature would be a site-wide filter that would let you hide any segments that are flat or downhill.

Moonbiker

Secondly and by far the more important I think is it needs monthly resets, not just to remain competitive, but to clear things out and give people incentive to get out and ride hard again.

They all ready have this feature if you just filter the leaderboard by month.

& you can filter so you can compare just your own times on the segment, so can just ignore all the others if you want to.

Also veloviewer is good for more data veloviewr score etc & raceshape.

thefd

Moonbiker wrote:

Secondly and by far the more important I think is it needs monthly resets, not just to remain competitive, but to clear things out and give people incentive to get out and ride hard again.

They all ready have this feature if you just filter the leaderboard by month.

& you can filter so you can compare just your own times on the segment, so can just ignore all the others if you want to.

Also veloviewer is good for more data veloviewr score etc & raceshape.

I don't see the option to filter by month?

Moonbiker

You can filter by day week month year my results, im following & club

Theres a drop down menu on the leadereboard pages just click on the all time header & choose month.



The My results & im following filters are on the activity page when you highlight a seg but not the full leaderboard view.

markhewitt1978

dilatory wrote:

Strava needs two things for the KOM system to be almost perfect in my opinion.

Firstly. Every result needs to have a wind direction + speed arrow next to it. Something like xcweather do. So you know how wind assisted it really was.

Secondly and by far the more important I think is it needs monthly resets, not just to remain competitive, but to clear things out and give people incentive to get out and ride hard again.

The resets thing is the important one IMO. Especially when you have the likes of a pro rider doing a segment and then it's that way permanently. A good idea would for the main leaderboard to only consist of rides done in the previous 12 months, which would create an issue where a KOM would drop off and someone else would get it by default. Another idea is there could be a full reset on say 1st January, where it's all up for grabs again.

Moonbiker

The resets thing is the important one IMO. Especially when you have the likes of a pro rider doing a segment and then it's that way permanently. A good idea would for the main leaderboard to only consist of rides done in the previous 12 months, which would create an issue where a KOM would drop off and someone else would get it by default. Another idea is there could be a full reset on say 1st January, where it's all up for grabs again.

I hate this idea, seem really unfair on the KOM holders & kind of defeats the whole point of the leaderboard.

term1te

I agree with Moonbiker, a record stands until someone beats it (or it is successfully flagged). Who is going to tell Usain Bolt that his 100m world record doesn't count as it is a few years old now?

markos1963

I just take Strava as a bit of fun and a useful tool to log my riding/training. I can't understand all the protectiveness over KOMs and stuff. From the people who use electronic EPO to the ones who go out in a car it all smacks of desperation. To me there is only one place where it counts, in a race/TT

Jon_1976

I've only been flagged once where it was obvious something was wrong. Did a 76 mile ride last year where my GPS had a thromby. Upon getting home and uploading, I discovered I had KOM'd about 25 segments I went to delete it straight away and it had already been flagged, it'd have only uploaded about 30 seconds.

Whilst using Strava, I did get 4 legit KOM's and one was flagged, didn't bother disputing it as I didn't really care. It was downhill with a monster tailwind and through a set of lights (which were on green for once). It felt like cheating to me anyway. KOM's should be climbs only imo.

Don't use it anymore as, even though I'm pretty uncompetitive, it was spoiling the fun of just cycling (as sloppy said). Garmin connect only for me, even though the website is toss

Dorset_Boy

Obvious dodgy KOMs should be flagged - those using their phones who forget to stop the Strava app and then drive somewhere for example, but if there is heart rate data on the segment then you can be pretty certain if it is for real or not.

I also think it sensible to flag dangerous segments - eg ones over roundabouts, or through traffic lights or with right turns across traffic.

However why flag something that appears real - there will always be someone out there who is fast or better than you at whatever you do. Not even Usain Bolt holds the record for 100m & 200m at every track he's competed on.

It would be good to have the permanent KOM leader board and also to have a second leader board with more recent times, be it 12 months, 6 months or less.

stringybob

Dorset Boy wrote:

It would be good to have the permanent KOM leader board and also to have a second leader board with more recent times, be it 12 months, 6 months or less.

They do now

adr82

Dorset Boy wrote:

Obvious dodgy KOMs should be flagged - those using their phones who forget to stop the Strava app and then drive somewhere for example, but if there is heart rate data on the segment then you can be pretty certain if it is for real or not.

Except when people drive out in the car to do some MTB'ing and then drive back without turning their Strava app off, still wearing their HR monitor. 90bpm while doing 35mph uphill? Good show sir

Dorset Boy wrote:

It would be good to have the permanent KOM leader board and also to have a second leader board with more recent times, be it 12 months, 6 months or less.

They've had this for ages actually. On the leaderboard page just click the "All Time" dropdown at the top and it gives you the option to only view times from the current day/week/month/year too.

markhewitt1978

Stringybob wrote:

Dorset Boy wrote:

It would be good to have the permanent KOM leader board and also to have a second leader board with more recent times, be it 12 months, 6 months or less.

They do now

They do but you have to go into the segment page, and then choose the filter for .this year. Perhaps there should be another award, separate from KOM e.g. "Fastest this year" or something.

bazzer2

How do you know who flagged it, do they tell you?

gazman428

I joined strava a few weeks back and have my 1st KOM and a couple of top 10's on my work ride already - a 23 mile hilly commute. I would be devistated if someone flagged it up. I hope you get it sorted out.

I'm sure some people will be upset at it, but I realised I was usually top 20 (from anywhere from 50 odd guys to a couple of thousand) and only a few seconds off the top places on the shorter climbs and a minute or so over a hilly 6 mile stretch. So I hung the winter bike and murdered mysef to work on my full carbon bike using energy drinks.

The result is I now have the KOM on the 6 mile stretch (only about 2 seconds mind) and a few top 10/20's over the rest of the run. My heart rate of 189bpm proves I did it the hard way! I'm sure someone will take it off me thought.

sloppyschleckonds

gazman428 wrote:

I would be devistated if someone flagged it up.

Seriously, being devastated would be quite an over reaction.

kajjal

Bozman wrote:

Folk mention the wind as an assist, what about a group?
If you look at a lot of segment top tens there are quite often 4,5 or 6 riders with roughly the same time on the same date/time. If you're riding solo the wind will probably give you about as much assistance as if you were riding in a group of riders.

Not much you can do about group riders but my KOM was set by myself in calm late summer conditions which was good going for me. KOM's are good to aim for but someone people are very petty rather than putting the work in. I know most riders are shorter and lighter than me which means overall they will beat me if they put the effort in.

bigmat

Crikey people take Strava too seriously! Re "resets", what sense of achievement do you get being KOM when you know some guy last year / month / whatever did it quicker? What's that all about?!

As for flagging "dangerous" segments, there is nothing inherently dangerous about a segment containing a roundabout, right turn, set of lights etc. If people are too dumb to ride according to the traffic conditions then that is their problem, I don't see why some random should "protect me from myself" by flagging such segments.

Also, why only uphill segments? Makes no sense at all. I'm not keen on downhill segments, but for people who like bombing downhill they must be great - can't we just let people judge for themselves?

adr82

BigMat wrote:

Crikey people take Strava too seriously! Re "resets", what sense of achievement do you get being KOM when you know some guy last year / month / whatever did it quicker? What's that all about?!

Agreed... plus it's always nice when you get a KOM that ends up lasting for months or years!

BigMat wrote:

As for flagging "dangerous" segments, there is nothing inherently dangerous about a segment containing a roundabout, right turn, set of lights etc. If people are too dumb to ride according to the traffic conditions then that is their problem, I don't see why some random should "protect me from myself" by flagging such segments.

Not inherently, maybe... but it's not really about protecting sensible people like you It's to discourage the more reckless among us from doing something very stupid in a mad quest for a little crown icon. You just know every cyclist would get tarred with the same brush if someone caused an accident and it turned out Strava was involved (like that guy in the US who killed a pedestrian). I noticed a couple of people apparently having a Strava duel last week over a flat 2+ mile segment that had a favourable wind direction at the time. The average speed ended up well over 30mph - this on a fairly busy road containing something like 5 or 6 roundabouts! That's stupid. Or there was the time I flagged a segment nearby because it had been defined to cover a ~2m wide fully enclosed shared use footbridge which features 2 90-degree corners that are difficult to see around. Also stupid. Private segments are the answer if you really want to do things like this.

BigMat wrote:

Also, why only uphill segments? Makes no sense at all. I'm not keen on downhill segments, but for people who like bombing downhill they must be great - can't we just let people judge for themselves?

If that was directed at my comment, it's not that I don't see why people might enjoy downhill segments, I just would prefer the option to exclude non-uphill segments from being displayed on my rides by default. The majority of segments tend to fall into that category and I'm more interested in how I'm doing going uphill without having the other segments cluttering things up.

bigmat

adr82 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Crikey people take Strava too seriously! Re "resets", what sense of achievement do you get being KOM when you know some guy last year / month / whatever did it quicker? What's that all about?!

Agreed... plus it's always nice when you get a KOM that ends up lasting for months or years!

BigMat wrote:

As for flagging "dangerous" segments, there is nothing inherently dangerous about a segment containing a roundabout, right turn, set of lights etc. If people are too dumb to ride according to the traffic conditions then that is their problem, I don't see why some random should "protect me from myself" by flagging such segments.

Not inherently, maybe... but it's not really about protecting sensible people like you It's to discourage the more reckless among us from doing something very stupid in a mad quest for a little crown icon. You just know every cyclist would get tarred with the same brush if someone caused an accident and it turned out Strava was involved (like that guy in the US who killed a pedestrian). I noticed a couple of people apparently having a Strava duel last week over a flat 2+ mile segment that had a favourable wind direction at the time. The average speed ended up well over 30mph - this on a fairly busy road containing something like 5 or 6 roundabouts! That's stupid. Or there was the time I flagged a segment nearby because it had been defined to cover a ~2m wide fully enclosed shared use footbridge which features 2 90-degree corners that are difficult to see around. Also stupid. Private segments are the answer if you really want to do things like this.

BigMat wrote:

Also, why only uphill segments? Makes no sense at all. I'm not keen on downhill segments, but for people who like bombing downhill they must be great - can't we just let people judge for themselves?

If that was directed at my comment, it's not that I don't see why people might enjoy downhill segments, I just would prefer the option to exclude non-uphill segments from being displayed on my rides by default. The majority of segments tend to fall into that category and I'm more interested in how I'm doing going uphill without having the other segments cluttering things up.

Wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I agree re "dangerous" segments such as the second one you describe, ones that are on shared use paths maybe, but roundabouts are everywhere - if I flagged every segment on my route containing a roundabout, lights, junction etc there'd be none left. A few people have flagged such segments and I just wish they'd mind their own! But back to the main point, there are better things to worry about. Even in the context of cycling, Strava segments mean very little and its best application (in my opinion) is as a means of challenging yourself and recording your results, not as an outward expression of greatness.

gazman428

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

gazman428 wrote:

I would be devistated if someone flagged it up.

Seriously, being devastated would be quite an over reaction.

Only because of the amount of work I have put in to get there and the pain I suffered doing so. Two years ago I started cycling again recovering from knee surgery from a martial arts accident. Being told I would never be able to run or do any sport seriously again.
I was depressed and due to comfort eating and drinking too much alcohol I was the wrong side of 16stone and struggled to do anything due to constant pain in both knees.
i'm still heavy (15 stone) but I now cycle again and commute to work and I've got my pace up, I am also mountain biking again. My knees now ache considerably less (today is too bad to ride mind).

I am proud of this fact and the KOM is a lovely reward which makes all the suffering trying to get back on a bike worthwhile. If someone beats me, which I am waiting for it gives me a target to try to improve to as I am competative.

dodgy

bernithebiker wrote:

But hey, if the wind's good that day, then why not?!

Because then your performance becomes a function of the weather, and not you as a rider.

Not that I'm bothered, I smirk when I hear 'strava' in the caff.

gotwood25

I have to admit I am a total Strava addict, I bloody love it. To the point where I contacted Strava support to re-match a run I had done as it missed a segment... I know I know, sad indeed. I hang my head in shame.

I did bag the KOM on said missing segment though :-)

bernithebiker

dodgy wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

But hey, if the wind's good that day, then why not?!

Because then your performance becomes a function of the weather, and not you as a rider.

Not that I'm bothered, I smirk when I hear 'strava' in the caff.

I would be very surprised if there are many KOM's out there that had been done into a headwind.......

Father Faff

I've got one or two KOMs in France because I am the only one who has done them! In fact it is quite easy to get KOMs in France as there don't seem to be many cyclists about (except on the famous climbs etc). Round here in Yorkshire there will typically be 2000 people on a segment, even before the TdF gets here!

bernithebiker

Father Faff wrote:

I've got one or two KOMs in France because I am the only one who has done them! In fact it is quite easy to get KOMs in France as there don't seem to be many cyclists about (except on the famous climbs etc). Round here in Yorkshire there will typically be 2000 people on a segment, even before the TdF gets here!

The French have yet to fully embrace Strava as they have a bit of lag when it comes to IT stuff, but it's happening slow but sure......

(It took me a year to convince one of my best French cycling buddies to get on Strava, but now he is he loves it!)

WeeJohn

bernithebiker wrote:

Father Faff wrote:

I've got one or two KOMs in France because I am the only one who has done them! In fact it is quite easy to get KOMs in France as there don't seem to be many cyclists about (except on the famous climbs etc). Round here in Yorkshire there will typically be 2000 people on a segment, even before the TdF gets here!

The French have yet to fully embrace Strava as they have a bit of lag when it comes to IT stuff, but it's happening slow but sure......

(It took me a year to convince one of my best French cycling buddies to get on Strava, but now he is he loves it!)

Yep, I'd agree with that. I live in Brittany too and for all the hundreds of cyclists you see out on the roads here, there are very few on Strava. And half of the ones that you do see are guys over from England on holiday. I've recently got onto it myself and I do find it addictive. I don't get anywhere near any KOMs (especially as there are quite a few pros that live round here) but it does motivate me to get out and increase my distance and speed and so on

sloppyschleckonds

Father Faff

What do you do when you get a KOM but Strava fails to record it? I set off today on a well known route that includes a fast and quite technical downhill and today it had a tail wind so there I was on the verge of killing myself and when I get home I find that Strava only ran for 15 seconds before turning off! For sure I must have got KOM on it. Can I get Strava to put me on top of the timesheets?

thefd

Father Faff wrote:

What do you do when you get a KOM but Strava fails to record it? I set off today on a well known route that includes a fast and quite technical downhill and today it had a tail wind so there I was on the verge of killing myself and when I get home I find that Strava only ran for 15 seconds before turning off! For sure I must have got KOM on it. Can I get Strava to put me on top of the timesheets?

Errr no you can't. If Strava switched off and hasn't recorded any of the ride then they cannot add it on. Otherwise I will tell them I did it the day after even faster but forgot to set Strava to run!

Just get out there and do it again and make sure Strava records it this time.