Ban cars from Richmond Park
jibberish
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jibberish wrote:
Do you like shared paths? Know what cobblers walk in Bushy Park is like on the weekend? That's what Richmond park would become. Cars keep walkers and dogs etc on Tasmin trail.
It was a bad idea a few years back and still is to be honest, and frankly it's a big busy park you have to share for roadie that means sharing with cars and realising you may need to slow at times etc.0 -
Maybe you're right but I don't like the traffic jams that form in the park. I can't help but feel something has to be done.0
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I'm sure car drivers (and walkers) feel the same about cyclists, given some of the reckless riding you occasionally see in RP.
It's a park for all, not a racetrack for us.0 -
PoweredByIdris wrote:It's a park for all, not a racetrack for us.
I think that is the key issue with this idea.
I'd love to see a 6.7 mile traffic free loop a few miles from central London - but why should anyone else?
The park is an amazing place - I live only 5 minutes away and do many, many laps each year. But it has become a victim of it's own success and at weekends there is just too much pressure from all users for it to cope with. Cars want to overtake bikes (because they perceive that bikes are slow and must be overtaken) and cyclists want to overtake cars (because cars are, in general, obeying the 20 mph speed limit).
Does the 20 mph speed limit apply to bikes? Who knows or cares - what cyclists need to accept is that there will be cars travelling at 20mph in the park. We moan about cars travelling too fast everywhere else, yet where they are travelling at a sensible pace, we moan they get in the way of our strava-heroics.
The compromise might be to not open the gates to cars until, let's say, 9 am on summer weekends.
Whatever happens, if going fast is your goal, then it's not the place to do it, unless you are in there at 6am or around sunset.0 -
Completely agree with the posts above. Live and let live.0
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marcusjb wrote:PoweredByIdris wrote:It's a park for all, not a racetrack for us.
I think that is the key issue with this idea.
I'd love to see a 6.7 mile traffic free loop a few miles from central London - but why should anyone else?
The park is an amazing place - I live only 5 minutes away and do many, many laps each year. But it has become a victim of it's own success and at weekends there is just too much pressure from all users for it to cope with. Cars want to overtake bikes (because they perceive that bikes are slow and must be overtaken) and cyclists want to overtake cars (because cars are, in general, obeying the 20 mph speed limit).
Does the 20 mph speed limit apply to bikes? Who knows or cares - what cyclists need to accept is that there will be cars travelling at 20mph in the park. We moan about cars travelling too fast everywhere else, yet where they are travelling at a sensible pace, we moan they get in the way of our strava-heroics.
The compromise might be to not open the gates to cars until, let's say, 9 am on summer weekends.
Whatever happens, if going fast is your goal, then it's not the place to do it, unless you are in there at 6am or around sunset.
All of the above. I think strava actually makes things worse in RiP. Sunday was particuarly bad- I wouldn't usually go at the weekend but needed to blow out the cobwebs somewhere close to home after being out of it with flu for 4 days. The place was manic- cars everywhere and frequently queueing, bikes of all sorts out on the roads and peds crossing in all sorts of places. Some very silly cycling was going on by people that felt they were being held up and car drivers were doing similar. I am surprised that there was not an accident down Broomfield Hill with some hairy fast descending, others grinding up the other way and cars trying to overtake coming up the hill! bonkers.
As a thought- perhaps a one way system might work at weekends. Give one lane over to the cyclists (whichever one is on the opposite side to the car parks) and one to the drivers. They could even alternate directions! Daft idea probably...RIP commute...
Sometimes seen bimbling around on a purple Fratello Disc or black and red Aprire Vincenza.0 -
marcusjb wrote:The compromise might be to not open the gates to cars until, let's say, 9 am on summer weekends.
Now there's a sensible suggestion - am sure something similar operates in Central Park NYC although not just weekends - remember running around there v early in the morning in July and it was bliss on the roads - although did have to watch out for speeding roller bladers :shock:0 -
D'accord.
I used to live in Wimbledon for many a year and Richmond Park used to be the perfect place to go every weekend if I didn't want to go out of town to put in a few miles. I say used to be because after some time it was getting a bit silly there in terms of cars vs cyclists vs peds vs Fenton, so I stopped going so regularly as it was more hassle than it was worth. I used to see questionable behavior from cyclists and motorists alike.
OP, I don't know what you're motivations are for signing the petition, but like its said above by other posters, RP was not designed solely for bikes and peds and more importantly is not a race circuit that some use it for. We (cyclists) have no ownership over the park and I have no more right to try and kick cars out than motorist does to kick cyclists off the roads that some perceive to be theirs. Afterall, I'm not surgically attached to my bike and am a pedestrian and motorist occasionally.
Although it a totally different - and much smaller with only one road - beast, Greenwich Park restricts cars during the morning to late afternoon.Reporter: "What's your prediction for the fight?"
Clubber Lang: "Prediction?"
Reporter: "Yes. Prediction"
Clubber Lang: "....Pain!!!"0 -
Twizit wrote:marcusjb wrote:The compromise might be to not open the gates to cars until, let's say, 9 am on summer weekends.
Now there's a sensible suggestion - am sure something similar operates in Central Park NYC although not just weekends - remember running around there v early in the morning in July and it was bliss on the roads - although did have to watch out for speeding roller bladers :shock:
No cars at all at weekends on the perimeter roads of Central Park.
My better half is a New Yorker (she's nice honestly!) and we go to the city quite a bit - the trouble now is that the roads are impossible to cross at the weekends, as a pedestrian. No-one stops at the crossings and it is very, very hard to get across as hordes of Mamils scream past.
Favouring one form of transport will always result in an increase in tensions rather than the intended decrease.
Seriously, if you like the Park and like to bust out the sub-20 minute laps, go first thing in the morning (5-6am in summer) or very late in the evening (at the moment, it's easy as the gates close at 6pm, so as long as you can handle the dark, you can hoon round with no cars, just deers and unlit runners to watch out for). Early summer mornings are just fabulous though.0 -
I disagree with banning cars as it is a shared resource for everyone, and folk like me sometimes do need to bring the car like last weekend when I came with pregnant wife and 3 year old daughter (and her bike).
As an aside, I happen to think that charging for parking is not an outrageous idea, despite the vocal protests.
I do, however, think that it should be made clear to car drivers that this is not a 'road' as such, but a park, and that one should be considerate towards cyclists (and vice versa). Putting something similar to the Deer signs might help ie 'wild Cyclists roam freely in this park, please be considerate' etc.0 -
Yes - shared resource for everyone - except when everyone wants to use it at the same time it causes issues.BigLights wrote:I disagree with banning cars as it is a shared resource for everyone, and folk like me sometimes do need to bring the car like last weekend when I came with pregnant wife and 3 year old daughter (and her bike).
and do you "need" to bring the car ... ? No more than the mamils "need" to race round at top speed on their bikes ...
The problem with an oversubscribed resource is managing the use without upsetting too many people.0 -
I would institute a simple rule that would cut out a lot of the traffic. You can only cycle in the park at weekends if you cycled there. There were so many cars with bike carriers on it was daft. If I were them I would have driven a little further an found somewhere less crowded/nicer to cycle!RIP commute...
Sometimes seen bimbling around on a purple Fratello Disc or black and red Aprire Vincenza.0 -
well, yes, it would have been difficult without a car. My wife is 7 months pregnant and my daughter is 3....so cycling the 7.5 miles from my Wandsworth home wasn't really on the cards. When i'm on my own, of course...but I don't see why I'm any less eligible to drive there than anyone else, if that's the most feasible option. All we needed to do was get to Pen Ponds and unleash the wee one on the car free tarmac up there while my missus complained about the lack of toilets there (fair enough, given her condition).0
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It would be lovely to have RP without cars, but it just wouldn't be fair to other users. Not everyone is lucky enough to live within walking distance of the park, so they need to drive there. OK, some people could cycle, but for many people that's just not practical, either because they live too far away, they don't have the mobility, or they have small kids, dogs etc. I cycle around the park most weekends (and cycle there from Wandsworth) but I also drive there pretty much every weekend too, with the dogs.
Yes, some drivers are a nuisance: they won't overtake bikes even when there's plenty of room to do so. But some cyclists are a nuisance too: it might be nice to ride slowly two abreast having a chat, but turn around and look at the queue of cars and bikes behind you.
If you want to cycle 'quickly', go for Strava PRs etc, get there early. I was there this Sunday - the warmest day of the year so far. I was there at 8:30am and it was fine. Got my PR on Strictly Richmond Park Lap (20:41). By 10am it was a zoo. That's life. Don't sign the petition.Shut up, knees!
Various Boardmans, a Focus, a Cannondale and an ancient Trek.0 -
BigLights wrote:well, yes, it would have been difficult without a car. My wife is 7 months pregnant and my daughter is 3....so cycling the 7.5 miles from my Wandsworth home wasn't really on the cards. When i'm on my own, of course...but I don't see why I'm any less eligible to drive there than anyone else, if that's the most feasible option. All we needed to do was get to Pen Ponds and unleash the wee one on the car free tarmac up there while my missus complained about the lack of toilets there (fair enough, given her condition).
Ah - WANT ... not NEED ... people often mistake the two ...0 -
That would've made it more difficult for me to join Ugo's CX ride last year - I would've still got there because I know enough of the surrounding roads to park somewhere else and ride the last bit in ... as it was I was able to drive into the closest car park and then get the bike out ...menthel wrote:I would institute a simple rule that would cut out a lot of the traffic. You can only cycle in the park at weekends if you cycled there. There were so many cars with bike carriers on it was daft. If I were them I would have driven a little further an found somewhere less crowded/nicer to cycle!
Riding the whole way wouldn't have been an option - to cold, wet & windy to do ~120miles round trip before even thinking about Ugo's ride ...0 -
Perhaps I should have been more specific, those that live locally and then drive (usually in their big 4x4 or german estate car) to do laps round the park should be banned from doing so. Family outings are definately allowed. Although, slowbike, not sure of your excuse, just sounds like an ECE (extended) audax to me...
RIP commute...
Sometimes seen bimbling around on a purple Fratello Disc or black and red Aprire Vincenza.0 -
Audax on CX tyres?menthel wrote:Perhaps I should have been more specific, those that live locally and then drive (usually in their big 4x4 or german estate car) to do laps round the park should be banned from doing so. Family outings are definitely allowed. Although, slowbike, not sure of your excuse, just sounds like an ECE (extended) audax to me...0 -
How about banning both cars and bikes from the park ?0
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One of the biggest Parisian parks, the Bois de Boulogne, closes some (but not all) roads at weekends and makes them available to cyclists, skateboarders, rollerbladers and pedestrians. It restores a bit of tranquility I think and I'd be all in favour of something similar in RP.
Not sure about closing the entire park but if you were to only allow access to car parks from the nearest gate and close everything else then it might work. Anyone who wants to can still get to the park but the road closures would encourage those who enjoy the scenery from behind the dashboard to get out their cars!0 -
Get out of their cars? What kind of heresy is this?0
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Always makes me laugh seeing loads of people having picnics right by the car park. Even on a busy day if you get more than 100 yards away from a car park you don't see many people other than on the main paths.0
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My only complaint, as someone who's cycled 100 of laps in RP, is the folk using it as a rat run. I'd be in favour of making it a one way system for cars.
You'd get some drivers avoiding the place all together, while still allowing cars access to the valuable resource that is the park. Keep them in one lane and free up the other for all the other road users.
I'd also think about extending the gate closure hours to stop the rush hour commuters.
Another idea would be to only allow vehicular access in and out of one the gates. In this case, only those wanting to use the park would be on the road.0 -
maybe make it one way for cars......that would discourage the ratrunners.0
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Make it a toll road. If you spend less than 30 minutes in the park then you pay. Means that people making use of the park as a recreational facility don't get punished, only the rat runners.Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
Sun - Cervelo R3
Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX0 -
That's actually a very good idea. I like that.0
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Yeah, I wonder how many of the cars are actually there to visit the park and how many are rat-running. Yes there is a speed limit, but there are no red lights, buses and the like. I wouldn't have a problem if rat-running cars were discouraged.0
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Not up for a total ban but I don't think that's what's being proposed. I use RP a lot for both cycling laps, as a nice diversion on the commute to work and to bring the family at weekends (in the car). Limiting through traffic at weekends makes sense, so people can still drive there and enjoy it but the traffic jams are greatly reduced.
The whole park was closed to cars during the Olympic road race and it was great being able to cycle round without any traffic. Completely get that it's for all users, but I think it's used too much as a rat run at the moment.0 -
shmooster wrote:Not up for a total ban but I don't think that's what's being proposed. I use RP a lot for both cycling laps, as a nice diversion on the commute to work and to bring the family at weekends (in the car). Limiting through traffic at weekends makes sense, so people can still drive there and enjoy it but the traffic jams are greatly reduced.
The whole park was closed to cars during the Olympic road race and it was great being able to cycle round without any traffic. Completely get that it's for all users, but I think it's used too much as a rat run at the moment.
The problem is with this argument is that plenty of bikes are doing the same, in winter the long line of bike lights is quite visible, ie the argument is that bikes are more valued than cars?0 -
Yes - they cause less congestion, less pollution, make the population fitter and are really popular on places like here ...roger merriman wrote:The problem is with this argument is that plenty of bikes are doing the same, in winter the long line of bike lights is quite visible, ie the argument is that bikes are more valued than cars?
As said earlier - the issue only arises when too many people try to use a limited resource. At which point you either put up with it, aim to use it at a time when it's not so busy or petition for a control over that resource in the vain hope that you'll get to use it how you want to use it and when you want to.
Richmond Park is a nice open green space that is a pleasure to use when it's not busy - I can't believe I lived next to it for 3 years and never really bothered going in there - actually, yes I can, I came in from the countryside - it's all built up around there ... it's nicer getting out of London completely - as I have done ..0
