Employment Lawyer, How to spot a good 'un?

Bobbinogs

Folks,

I could do with a competent (and not stupidly expensive) lawyer to advise me on my employment law rights and, whilst I can easily find a dozen local firms, I have no idea as to how I can work out a good one from a bad one. I did go and see a lawyer a couple of years ago and managed to quickly spend over £500 on some very wooly advice from a young lady who instilled as much confidence as a chocolate teapot (assuming that one cannot gain confidence from such a device). Luckily that issue did not need to proceed, which was probably just as well.

So, any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

VTech

My completely honest advice is that there are not many reliable lawyers around.
Ive spent vast sums since selling my company in december and the truth is, they all seem to be in each others pockets and there is little in the way of reliability between them.
Like a "secret handshake" type of society.

Unless you are 100% certain of winning (don't bother if your only 95% sure) and there is plenty in it for you (not just a few quid otherwise the costs outweigh the gains) then I wouldn't bother.
Thats the advice I would give to a very good friend based on 2 years of my own personal experience.

I hope you get better results than me however.

sungod

tbh if you do not have legal insurance, maybe start with this...

http://lawworks.org.uk/clinics

...don't sign anything that commits you to take a lawyer on after the freebie

also read up on what cab/others say, links are on above site

as vtech says, be careful about getting into an expensive process that you may not win, there's no such thing as a cert with lawyers and the law, especially if the other party has more money (or insurance) and is willing to spend it to make sure you don't win

only one outcome works in your favour: you win, they lose, plus you get costs and meaningful damages/compensation

if you win, but don't get costs, or damages are negligible, you still may end up with nothing (except for lost time and a bad experience)

other outcomes are progressively worse

bianchimoon

depends whether you want 'advice' or are wanting to taking someone to court?

But by far best way is to try to work it out without resorting to law/lawyers/courts.

I used one many years ago for a constructive dismissal case, lawyer got bored or had a more 'lucrative' case come on so in the end had to settle for peanuts as his advice was that it was too risky to go further, be cynical about lawyers, they only take on cases to make as much money for themselves/their practices with the least possible work ie cast iron certainty cases which you'd probably win acting for yourself.

Mccaria

A lot will depend on the complexity of your contract and the scope of the advice you are looking for.

We have used employment lawyers a few time recently to review contracts and give advice. Between time taken to review the contract and calls to discuss their findings it rarely comes in much below £2-3k.

arran77

Lawyer and good 'un you say? :? :? :? :? :?

Giraffoto

...

capt_slog

Bobbinogs wrote:

Folks,

I could do with a competent (and not stupidly expensive) lawyer to advise me on my employment law rights and, whilst I can easily find a dozen local firms, I have no idea as to how I can work out a good one from a bad one. I did go and see a lawyer a couple of years ago and managed to quickly spend over £500 on some very wooly advice from a young lady who instilled as much confidence as a chocolate teapot (assuming that one cannot gain confidence from such a device). Luckily that issue did not need to proceed, which was probably just as well.

So, any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

I take it that you're not part of a union, trade association or suchlike? They often have some sort of legal side that can help you.

Bobbinogs

Unfortunately not Capt, for some pertinent reasons in this case.

All, thanks for the advice to date.

Intherain

----

slowmart

I have a firm on retention which have been with me for 7 years.

While I don't always agree with their advice I follow it regardless and that's the main point. If you use experts you need to follow their advice. In some instances the firm has provided advice to de escalate the position which has proven invaluable. Which is refreshing as most solicitors advocate a cycle of adversarial dialogue rather than a solution at minimal cost. Yes there are good ones but the legal profession is being hit hard. Many now operate as limited liability practices rather than partnerships with the larger merged entities carrying highly leveraged debt, with a shrinking pool of work while the smaller practices are being hit with increased premiums to their professional indemnity insurance.

In the first instance I would phone round a few local employment solicitors outlining your grievance and ask for some informed opinion. Most company website carry a brief history and experience of the person you are talking with which provides improved clarity.

Be aware though very few cases go to a full tribunal, to defend an action at full tribunal will cost a company upwards on £20k which means most companies offer claimants a settlement in the form of a compromise agreement. I carry insurance against such events which means my liability is capped although I have to fully abide by my solicitors instructions. End result no claims or actions in 7 years.


PM me if you want their details.

mamba80

I phoned ACAS and they gave me all the Employment law advice I needed for free, as Vtech says, don't go to law unless you are certain of winning.
Also, you household insurance may have a free legal advice helpline

graham.

mamba80 wrote:

I phoned ACAS and they gave me all the Employment law advice I needed for free, as Vtech says, don't go to law unless you are certain of winning.
Also, you household insurance may have a free legal advice helpline

Another vote for ACAS, at least as a starting point.

VTech

I had a pm asking me why I was so angry about this

here is the reason.

I have taken 3 legal cases out and lost all 3.

1) i claimed against a staircase firm who came to build me an oak staircase, the cost was £15k (not to make a meal of the money but to give an idea of the value of loss)
they came to the house and gave the quote but as my house wasn't finished and the walls were just built but not plastered they couldn't do a final measure.
they agreed to come back in three months.
After three months i called and asked for the stairs, they replied that they had burned them as they thought i didn't want them.
i said of course i did but got nowhere.
i took them to small claims court and thought i would win.
i lost the case on two issues, 1) on the agreement i signed at the top it had a line that said how soon do you need the stairs, he wrote asap and i singed the bottom. 2) the judge said that with the money i have i should have employed a solicitor to fight the case.
i was shocked at both parts and lost the complete amount plus the £800 it cost to bring the case plus the guy requested costs of £300 which the judge awarded.


2) i bought a house which was made derelict after an oil leak, it took 2 years to rebuild the house and i was not liable for council tax as it was a derelict property. the council kept sending bills and i kept replying i don't legally owe anything. they took me to court, i went equipped with the VOS (valuation office) report, pictures of the house, environmental health report and insurance documents. I lost the case and had to pay £17800 for the two years tax, excess fee for empty home loss and costs.

3) i made a claim against a company who worked for my old company, they did our security. i had to have sensitive software removed from my pc but i had written confirmation that a piece of software for my new company wasn't to be touched, this was signed and notarised.
they deleted this (i would say on purpose) but they didn't care and the costs were astronomical. i took them to small claims court and the judgement was done in our absence as this is how they now do it.
the reply from the courts was that the claim is struck out as there is no basis for me to make a claim.
Losses on that one were originally £45,000 but I managed to fix for £6400.

I dont trust the legal system, to me they all seem in it together and string out things when times are tough.
Imagine this, they have little work then a case comes in that they can solve in a couple of hours, they decide to drag it out for a few weeks and the costs treble/quadruple. Its a game, problem is that its like a fruit machine.

TOTALLY ONE SIDED.

sloppyschleckonds

VTech wrote:

I had a pm asking me why I was so angry about this

here is the reason.

I have taken 3 legal cases out and lost all 3.

1) i claimed against a staircase firm who came to build me an oak staircase, the cost was £15k (not to make a meal of the money but to give an idea of the value of loss)
they came to the house and gave the quote but as my house wasn't finished and the walls were just built but not plastered they couldn't do a final measure.
they agreed to come back in three months.
After three months i called and asked for the stairs, they replied that they had burned them as they thought i didn't want them.
i said of course i did but got nowhere.
i took them to small claims court and thought i would win.
i lost the case on two issues, 1) on the agreement i signed at the top it had a line that said how soon do you need the stairs, he wrote asap and i singed the bottom. 2) the judge said that with the money i have i should have employed a solicitor to fight the case.
i was shocked at both parts and lost the complete amount plus the £800 it cost to bring the case plus the guy requested costs of £300 which the judge awarded.


2) i bought a house which was made derelict after an oil leak, it took 2 years to rebuild the house and i was not liable for council tax as it was a derelict property. the council kept sending bills and i kept replying i don't legally owe anything. they took me to court, i went equipped with the VOS (valuation office) report, pictures of the house, environmental health report and insurance documents. I lost the case and had to pay £17800 for the two years tax, excess fee for empty home loss and costs.

3) i made a claim against a company who worked for my old company, they did our security. i had to have sensitive software removed from my pc but i had written confirmation that a piece of software for my new company wasn't to be touched, this was signed and notarised.
they deleted this (i would say on purpose) but they didn't care and the costs were astronomical. i took them to small claims court and the judgement was done in our absence as this is how they now do it.
the reply from the courts was that the claim is struck out as there is no basis for me to make a claim.
Losses on that one were originally £45,000 but I managed to fix for £6400.

I dont trust the legal system, to me they all seem in it together and string out things when times are tough.
Imagine this, they have little work then a case comes in that they can solve in a couple of hours, they decide to drag it out for a few weeks and the costs treble/quadruple. Its a game, problem is that its like a fruit machine.

TOTALLY ONE SIDED.

I'm guessing the mistake(s) you made here was thinking you were right.

VTech

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

VTech wrote:

I had a pm asking me why I was so angry about this

here is the reason.

I have taken 3 legal cases out and lost all 3.

1) i claimed against a staircase firm who came to build me an oak staircase, the cost was £15k (not to make a meal of the money but to give an idea of the value of loss)
they came to the house and gave the quote but as my house wasn't finished and the walls were just built but not plastered they couldn't do a final measure.
they agreed to come back in three months.
After three months i called and asked for the stairs, they replied that they had burned them as they thought i didn't want them.
i said of course i did but got nowhere.
i took them to small claims court and thought i would win.
i lost the case on two issues, 1) on the agreement i signed at the top it had a line that said how soon do you need the stairs, he wrote asap and i singed the bottom. 2) the judge said that with the money i have i should have employed a solicitor to fight the case.
i was shocked at both parts and lost the complete amount plus the £800 it cost to bring the case plus the guy requested costs of £300 which the judge awarded.


2) i bought a house which was made derelict after an oil leak, it took 2 years to rebuild the house and i was not liable for council tax as it was a derelict property. the council kept sending bills and i kept replying i don't legally owe anything. they took me to court, i went equipped with the VOS (valuation office) report, pictures of the house, environmental health report and insurance documents. I lost the case and had to pay £17800 for the two years tax, excess fee for empty home loss and costs.

3) i made a claim against a company who worked for my old company, they did our security. i had to have sensitive software removed from my pc but i had written confirmation that a piece of software for my new company wasn't to be touched, this was signed and notarised.
they deleted this (i would say on purpose) but they didn't care and the costs were astronomical. i took them to small claims court and the judgement was done in our absence as this is how they now do it.
the reply from the courts was that the claim is struck out as there is no basis for me to make a claim.
Losses on that one were originally £45,000 but I managed to fix for £6400.

I dont trust the legal system, to me they all seem in it together and string out things when times are tough.
Imagine this, they have little work then a case comes in that they can solve in a couple of hours, they decide to drag it out for a few weeks and the costs treble/quadruple. Its a game, problem is that its like a fruit machine.

TOTALLY ONE SIDED.

I'm guessing the mistake(s) you made here was thinking you were right.

I would say that I was right. On each case I did due diligence and looked for similar cases and to this day can't fathom
Why they went the wrong way for me. I know you will have a smarmy comment and welcome it.

mr_goo

To the OP. Are you looking for advice as an Employer or Employee?
I have always been an employee, and just over a year ago was made redundant along with my colleagues, and then found our positions advertised 3 months after our contracts terminated, but with a different job title. We consulted with a lawyer and were advised not to proceed against our ex employers. Whilst they were taking the proverbial, they were flying just inside the law so wasn't worth the agro and potential costs and possible loss of our settlements.

VTech

Mr Goo wrote:

To the OP. Are you looking for advice as an Employer or Employee?
I have always been an employee, and just over a year ago was made redundant along with my colleagues, and then found our positions advertised 3 months after our contracts terminated, but with a different job title. We consulted with a lawyer and were advised not to proceed against our ex employers. Whilst they were taking the proverbial, they were flying just inside the law so wasn't worth the agro and potential costs and possible loss of our settlements.

This is the problem, most people who do this type of thing are crooks so fly close to the edge, but just on the legal side.
I was in business with such a person and promptly ended that partnership. Whilst I am all for taking risks I do not take pleasure in others misery which I so often see as a daily occurrence by people I meet in business.

pdstsp

V Tech - sorry to jump in but in your three examples above you never mention employing a lawyer, in fact it appears you didn't use one - perhaps that was your problem? I also don't know how you managed to get a £45,000 claim into the Small Claims Court?

Lawyers, as someone else said, are sometimes very good and sometimes very bad and often somewhere in the middle but you can't slag off an entire profession based on, what looks like, a problem of your own making.

briantrumpet

pdstsp wrote:

you can't slag off an entire profession based on, what looks like, a problem of your own making.

Yes you can - he did.

nathancom

pdstsp wrote:

V Tech - sorry to jump in but in your three examples above you never mention employing a lawyer, in fact it appears you didn't use one - perhaps that was your problem? I also don't know how you managed to get a £45,000 claim into the Small Claims Court?

Lawyers, as someone else said, are sometimes very good and sometimes very bad and often somewhere in the middle but you can't slag off an entire profession based on, what looks like, a problem of your own making.

I would take everything he says with a barrel of salt. It masks the smell of manure.

Mikey23

Can a large quantity of salt do that?

nathancom

Mikey23 wrote:

Can a large quantity of salt do that?

I don't know. I imagine if you ate a barrel of salt the smell of manure might be the last thing on your mind though.

Garry H

VTech wrote:

I would say that I was right. On each case I did due diligence and looked for similar cases and to this day can't fathom
Why they went the wrong way for me. I know you will have a smarmy comment and welcome it.

A little knowledge is a ...

team47b

Even the law thinks you are an ass

Mikey23

Would that be the Met?

VTech

nathancom wrote:

pdstsp wrote:

V Tech - sorry to jump in but in your three examples above you never mention employing a lawyer, in fact it appears you didn't use one - perhaps that was your problem? I also don't know how you managed to get a £45,000 claim into the Small Claims Court?

Lawyers, as someone else said, are sometimes very good and sometimes very bad and often somewhere in the middle but you can't slag off an entire profession based on, what looks like, a problem of your own making.

I would take everything he says with a barrel of salt. It masks the smell of manure.

Jealousy betrays your capability to succeed. Let go of those feelings and thrive, you don't get the wasted years back.

Yellow Peril

VTech wrote:

I had a pm asking me why I was so angry about this

here is the reason.

I have taken 3 legal cases out and lost all 3.

1) i claimed against a staircase firm who came to build me an oak staircase, the cost was £15k (not to make a meal of the money but to give an idea of the value of loss)
they came to the house and gave the quote but as my house wasn't finished and the walls were just built but not plastered they couldn't do a final measure.
they agreed to come back in three months.
After three months i called and asked for the stairs, they replied that they had burned them as they thought i didn't want them.
i said of course i did but got nowhere.
i took them to small claims court and thought i would win.
i lost the case on two issues, 1) on the agreement i signed at the top it had a line that said how soon do you need the stairs, he wrote asap and i singed the bottom. 2) the judge said that with the money i have i should have employed a solicitor to fight the case.
i was shocked at both parts and lost the complete amount plus the £800 it cost to bring the case plus the guy requested costs of £300 which the judge awarded.


2) i bought a house which was made derelict after an oil leak, it took 2 years to rebuild the house and i was not liable for council tax as it was a derelict property. the council kept sending bills and i kept replying i don't legally owe anything. they took me to court, i went equipped with the VOS (valuation office) report, pictures of the house, environmental health report and insurance documents. I lost the case and had to pay £17800 for the two years tax, excess fee for empty home loss and costs.

3) i made a claim against a company who worked for my old company, they did our security. i had to have sensitive software removed from my pc but i had written confirmation that a piece of software for my new company wasn't to be touched, this was signed and notarised.
they deleted this (i would say on purpose) but they didn't care and the costs were astronomical. i took them to small claims court and the judgement was done in our absence as this is how they now do it.
the reply from the courts was that the claim is struck out as there is no basis for me to make a claim.
Losses on that one were originally £45,000 but I managed to fix for £6400.

I dont trust the legal system, to me they all seem in it together and string out things when times are tough.
Imagine this, they have little work then a case comes in that they can solve in a couple of hours, they decide to drag it out for a few weeks and the costs treble/quadruple. Its a game, problem is that its like a fruit machine.

TOTALLY ONE SIDED.

1. If I read your story right the guy gave you a quote for £15K but didn't do the work. Your "loss" wasn't £15k. In any event £15k is above the small claims court max

2. Not sure why an oil leak would make a house derelict. The courts obviously agreed with the Council on that one.

3.Again a £45K claim would not be heard in the small claims court

check out the Legal 500 or Chambers directory for a steer on legal representation

Crankbrother

Is that why you went to Glasgow to get your van Vtech? Hoping for more luck with a different legal system?

pdstsp

VTech wrote:

nathancom wrote:

pdstsp wrote:

V Tech - sorry to jump in but in your three examples above you never mention employing a lawyer, in fact it appears you didn't use one - perhaps that was your problem? I also don't know how you managed to get a £45,000 claim into the Small Claims Court?

Lawyers, as someone else said, are sometimes very good and sometimes very bad and often somewhere in the middle but you can't slag off an entire profession based on, what looks like, a problem of your own making.

I would take everything he says with a barrel of salt. It masks the smell of manure.

Jealousy betrays your capability to succeed. Let go of those feelings and thrive, you don't get the wasted years back.

I'm sorry but what am I supposed to be jealous of? (Presumably not your win ratio in the courts or your staircase). I was merely pointing out that you do not appear to have used a lawyer to help you in these legal cases so I find it difficult to see how you can blame the entire legal profession when you lose them. Perhaps I'm just being stupid.

mamba80

VTECH : If you make statements about the SCC that are wrong and therefore indicate you are telling porkies, you are going to get flamed.
Regardless, who pays up front for a 15k staircase, before the building is finished and the company then says they burnt it? come on! they wouldnt even be able to take accurate measurements, stair cases are very precisely made but the company didnt take final measurements but built it anyway...like xxxx they did!