Climbing

warreng

I've accidentally entered the Fred Whitton in May and am slightly concerned about the amount of climbing required (4000m over 180km) and looking for advice on how to improve my climbing ability

I did 160km yesterday through the Surrey Hills and included Coldharbour, Newlands, Whitedown, Leith Hill and Box Hill and did about 1600m of climbing.

I'm no spring chicken and at 80kg probably too fat. I'm an 8 minute person on Box Hill so you can see I'm not going to trouble the pro-circuit anytime soon

I don't have a problem with long slogs - I'm quite happy to grind it out forever (slowly) but I really struggle with short, sharp inclines - I nearly stopped on Whitedown Lane which would have me putting my bike on eBay in shame. So any advice from you decent cyclists on how to cope with gradients?

markhewitt1978

Gears! If you haven't got low enough gears you aren't going to get anywhere. Are your gears sufficiently low?

warreng

I've got a compact and round about the hairpin on Whitedown a new cassette was added to the wish list. As was EPO, a small engine and/or sick note for May 11th

markhewitt1978

In that case. Find the steepest nastiest hill you can in your area. Ride up it 100 times. Rest for 5 minutes. Repeat.

gbsahne001

change the compact for a triple or put an 11-32 on the back (dependent on 9 or 10 speed), thereafter lose some weight and come to the chilterns for some training.

ugo.santalucia

A cassette with a 28 or 29 sprocket is almost compulsory if your derailleur has a capacity to pull it. If you think Whitedown is steep, you're up for a surprise... Whitedown is nothing compared to Hardknott, Wrynose and the other beasts of the north...
Good tyres, good brakes as well and don't use carbon wheels

Kieran_Burns

Watch this:

http://youtu.be/kzNfufUHh9Q

please note he used a triple. Hardknott after 100 miles of cycling....

drlodge

ugo.santalucia wrote:

A cassette with a 28 or 29 sprocket is almost compulsory if your derailleur has a capacity to pull it. If you think Whitedown is steep, you're up for a surprise... Whitedown is nothing compared to Hardknott, Wrynose and the other beasts of the north...
Good tyres, good brakes as well and don't use carbon wheels

Some good advice there. I'm hopefully going to the Yorkshire Dales over Easter and have just bought a 12-29 cassette to replace my 12-27...those 2 extra teeth will certainly make a difference on the steepest climbs. The 12-27 will go on my carbon wheels that Ugo built for me...

Something else to consider is how you pace yourself. Some Surrey Hills are fairly steep but quite short and the body/mind has a tendancy to push hard when the going gets tough. I had pleasure of doing some very long hills in Gran Canaria and I really had to learn to back off the pace at the beginning even though the inclines were only 10% or so. If my heart rate is in the 180s and I hit a 20% climb, I'm done for. But if my heart rate is nearer 170 then I stand a chance. Obviously lower gears make it easier to go more slowly, which is why I've gone for a 12-29 (with a compact chainset).

That said, if you can do 100 miles and those hills then you're fairly fit, Whitedown isn't easy its just that Hardnott is alot more difficult. Pace yourself and ensure you have something left for when you need it.

MonkeyMonster

Be as light as possible while maintaining power ratio When out with sky velo people (my club I guess) there were two trainers (helping us get ready for L2P) who were saying train going up hills in bigger gears than feels comfortable and stay in the saddle. Dig deeper.

markhewitt1978

MonkeyMonster wrote:

train going up hills in bigger gears than feels comfortable and stay in the saddle. Dig deeper.

Was thinking about this, that perhaps you should train using higher gears than you're using on the day?

goonz

Put it in the hardest gear you can manage and mash up it as many times as you can. Repeat. Die.

rubertoe

goonz wrote:

Put it in the hardest gear you can manage and mash up it as many times as you can. Repeat. Die.

A man after my own heart

LiveGiantly

MonkeyMonster wrote:

Be as light as possible while maintaining power ratio When out with sky velo people (my club I guess) there were two trainers (helping us get ready for L2P) who were saying train going up hills in bigger gears than feels comfortable and stay in the saddle. Dig deeper.

I like that advice!

secretsam

gbsahne wrote:

change the compact for a triple or put an 11-32 on the back (dependent on 9 or 10 speed), thereafter lose some weight and come to the chilterns for some training.

Which hills in the Chilterns would compare to those on the Fred?

LiveGiantly

rubertoe wrote:

goonz wrote:

Put it in the hardest gear you can manage and mash up it as many times as you can. Repeat. Die.

A man after my own heart

This is how you get strong legs.....ride hard!!

rjsterry

If you want a properly steep hill down your side of London, then Succomb's Hill near Whyteleaf is 25% with no chance of a run up. It's narrow and twisty and often busy, so you have to keep going all the way to the top. Here's the Strava reference (with some fairly silly times).
[urlhttp://www.strava.com/segments/succomb-s-hill-646100[/url]

gbsahne001

SecretSam wrote:

gbsahne wrote:

change the compact for a triple or put an 11-32 on the back (dependent on 9 or 10 speed), thereafter lose some weight and come to the chilterns for some training.

Which hills in the Chilterns would compare to those on the Fred?

Bison Hill's good for reps

memsley89

In the wise words of Matt Bottrill, Power Up!

5 - Power based intervals - for increased strength

Find a climb of around 4 - 5 minutes.

20 mins warm up high cadence, don't concentrate on power or heart rate, start the climb at 70 revs, eg 53 x 17, then each minute drop it down one sprocket, descend the climb and repeat, keep doing the intervals until you can't take anymore!

solsurf

I know this is probably not possible, but it would be worth your while visiting the Lakes and having a go at the hills in advance, Honister and other passes get forgotten about yet all are steep and sap your energy, my main tip is enjoy it and smile

warreng

solsurf wrote:

I know this is probably not possible, but it would be worth your while visiting the Lakes and having a go at the hills in advance, Honister and other passes get forgotten about yet all are steep and sap your energy, my main tip is enjoy it and smile

Christ - I can only imagine the conversation if I float that particular idea this evening

Some good stuff here - thanks

If I change cassette I'll have to get a new rear mech too so 70-80 quid so not sure I want to do that for just one ride

It looks like I'll have to sacrifice my Sunday social rides and focus on hill reps - up and down Whitedown. What larks

bigmat

The climbs on the Fred are very tough, especially if its hot. My mate almost passed out on Honister. I ended up walking half of Hardknott (I blamed traffic coming downhill breaking my momentun, but to be honest I was done for after 100 tough miles). My most practical tip would be to be prepared to walk - SPDs rather than Look / SPD-SL cleats make a lot of sense for this one.

rjsterry

Whitedown is 'only' 14% at its steepest and 12% overall IIRC, so some way off the Lakes climbs. The lanes around Whyteleafe and Oxted are a bit steeper, although a bit further away from Epsom.

backo

I used this event as a reccy for last year...if you can spare a night away from the mrs!

Only 70 mile ride but hardnott and wrynose are on the route. This was the first time I encountered these climbs but they were alot less intimidating when I acutally did the fred thanks to climbing them before.

http://www.epicevents.co.uk/cycle-sport ... -2014.html

secretsam

gbsahne wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

gbsahne wrote:

change the compact for a triple or put an 11-32 on the back (dependent on 9 or 10 speed), thereafter lose some weight and come to the chilterns for some training.

Which hills in the Chilterns would compare to those on the Fred?

Bison Hill's good for reps

I was thinking Whiteleaf or Kop Hill (Nr Princes Risboro') or Lodge Hill or Bowood Lane (both near Wendover)? None are very long (apart from Kop Hill, which is a reasonable stretch) but all have steep bits. Or not steep enough???

drlodge

I thought Whitedown is 18%, not quite as steep or as long as Barhatch Lane.

rubertoe

Why do you need a new rear mech?

warreng

According to the chap in Covent Garden's Specialized Concept Store the rear mech has a short cage and would need a longer one to cope with a lower geared cassette

rubertoe

Get a second opinion (or for the one off climbing day put a cheaper mech on).

meanredspider

OK - I don't agree with the "higher gear and mash" approach myself and here is why: what you will do is build stronger, heavier, legs. What you need to do instead is to build your aerobic capacity. Take Wiggins and Froome - they climb like goats but don't have massive legs (sticks would describe their legs best) - what I get they do have is fantastic aerobic capacity. You should be busting your lungs not your quads. I've only recently realised this mistake myself - I have fantastic quads but I have the drag them up the hill and they're heavy. Gear down and spin up. And, to train, spin up steep hills as fast as you can.

markhewitt1978

WarrenG wrote:

According to the chap in Covent Garden's Specialized Concept Store the rear mech has a short cage and would need a longer one to cope with a lower geared cassette

What rear mech do you have? Keep in mind most can go a couple of teeth beyond their stated capacity.

drlodge

meanredspider wrote:

OK - I don't agree with the "higher gear and mash" approach myself and here is why: what you will do is build stronger, heavier, legs. What you need to do instead is to build your aerobic capacity. Take Wiggins and Froome - they climb like goats but don't have massive legs (sticks would describe their legs best) - what I get they do have is fantastic aerobic capacity. You should be busting your lungs not your quads. I've only recently realised this mistake myself - I have fantastic quads but I have the drag them up the hill and they're heavy. Gear down and spin up. And, to train, spin up steep hills as fast as you can.

Wise words. When I've been beaten on a hill, its not my legs that have given up, but my lungs. Noobs may have an issue with strength in their legs but for most of us its managing to put out the required power over a sustained period of time.