Better Climbing

MartinGT

Hi Guys

I have never been a poor climber but, I would like to improve on my climbing ability.

I have read numerous things about doing this, however I would like to know what peoples experiances are. The climbs I would like to improve on are steeper climbs i.e 7%+ The climbs I do around my neck of the woods are all steeper climbs. The bits I have read on improving climbing has mentioned about improving for the longer drags rather than the steep sharp ones.

I climbed thisclimb at the weekend and I have done it numerous times, mostly on the MTB as part of a loop around there. I would like to improve on climbs like this as I know several around there and locally that are similar.

What is the best way of improving on this? Is it to do hill repeats on easier drags? or something else?

imposter2.0

Lose weight or increase your threshold, or both. There have been several threads on this topic recently - worth having a scan of the first few pages of the forum for similar topics...

MartinGT

Imposter wrote:

Lose weight or increase your threshold, or both. There have been several threads on this topic recently - worth having a scan of the first few pages of the forum for similar topics...

Thanks

kajjal

If you use Strava you can see what speed you and other riders do at certain points in the climb to give you an idea of pacing and what is possible on a particular climb. If you train on the same climb and learn which gears to use and how you body is reacting to the effort you will soon get a feel for which gear to use when and when to push yourself. This can then be used on any climb.

As above after a point either building fitness or losing weight is the only way to gain speed but don't be fixated on weight loss as it comes naturally if you eat healthily and become fitter.

supermurph09

Not a direct answer but something that I have begun doing to look at pacing is splitting one Strava segment or climb into 2 or 3 private segments so I can compare my times. Am I going too fast, am I fading at the top etc.

MartinGT

I have been doing the TrainerRoad stuff and it does seem to be helping. On the major climbs on Saturday (like the one I linked) I did get PB's. It didnt feel like I was going any better like.

I suppose its still early in the year, I was on the winter bike, I was taking lungfulls of cold air.

I shall continue with the TrainerRoad. I enjoy it and there are certain improvements I am noticing. Small steps I suppose.

sloppyschleckonds

Have a look at the trainerroad climbing workouts, if you use sufferfest then try angels where you are specifically looking at increasing your power through the 8 minute intervals.

markhewitt1978

Supermurph09 wrote:

Not a direct answer but something that I have begun doing to look at pacing is splitting one Strava segment or climb into 2 or 3 private segments so I can compare my times. Am I going too fast, am I fading at the top etc.

If you put the segment into raceshape.com you can compare your position on the segment compared with any other rider, so you can see if you're ahead at the bottom and fade at the top etc.

supermurph09

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Supermurph09 wrote:

Not a direct answer but something that I have begun doing to look at pacing is splitting one Strava segment or climb into 2 or 3 private segments so I can compare my times. Am I going too fast, am I fading at the top etc.

If you put the segment into raceshape.com you can compare your position on the segment compared with any other rider, so you can see if you're ahead at the bottom and fade at the top etc.

Agreed, but that compares you to someone else, fine if you are a few seconds away from the KOM and looking to steal it but lets face it most people just want to beat themselves. I cannot understand why Raceshape does not allow you to compare yourself against yourself.

markhewitt1978

Supermurph09 wrote:

Agreed, but that compares you to someone else, fine if you are a few seconds away from the KOM and looking to steal it but lets face it most people just want to beat themselves. I cannot understand why Raceshape does not allow you to compare yourself against yourself.

Ah wasn't aware it didn't. A shame the Strava comparison has gone as it allowed you to compare your performance on a segment vs your own PR.

supermurph09

http://blog.raceshape.com/post/26055256 ... qus_thread

Not sure if they are still working on it. Fantastic if they are, probably the most useful thing for me!

ozzzyosborn206

Imposter wrote:

Lose weight or increase your threshold, or both. There have been several threads on this topic recently - worth having a scan of the first few pages of the forum for similar topics...

while increasing threshold will help, to improve at shorter hills he would be better off at training his ability to do hard 3-5min intervals rather than his ability to do an hour

ednino

I think there is a lot of technique to climbing hills. Things you won't learn unless you climb a lot. There is more to it than weight & power output.

Just search out routes that take in big climbs & enjoy them. I love to climb

pipipi

MartinGT wrote:

I did get PB's. It didnt feel like I was going any better like.

It won't feel easier. It will still feel horrible if you are pushing yourself. :oops: What I noticed was that if I backed off, so not going for PBs, then it was noticeably easier. And the easier effort was about the same time that my previous allout lungbursting efforts used to be.

But to hit PBs on hills you regularly do, you are going to have to hit your limit. And exceed it

markhewitt1978

There is a local sharp climb which I do at least once a month but never have I gotten anywhere close to the time I posted when I was chasing someone up on a sportive.

cyco2

Could you find somebody who can climb that hill faster than you and stick on their wheel. Thats how most race riders do it. Then if they don't stick to their wheel go away and do lots of hard short intervals. Then try again. There is a technique to climbing steep hills fast and "lung busting" comes to mind.

bahzob

Not all climbs are the same. Those in this country are mostly short sharp "sprinters" climbs or like this one short 4-8 minute lung busters. The training for these is not quite the same as needed for long mountain climbs.

There is no getting away from the fact that these short climbs hurt and training for them will therefore hurt as well. If on the flat/turbo needs to be short intervals with short recovery, e..g. 20s full effort/20s recovery repeat til exhaustion, 1 minute hard as you can sustain 1 minute recovery repeat 10-12 times, 3-5 minute intervals hard as you can sustain, 2 sets each repeated 3 times with 3-5 mins between intervals, 10 or so minutes between sets. Basically anything that gets you seeing red mist.

Other option is just keep climbing the hill over and over. Apart from being good training it also lets you play around with technique. Key things are
- Power: this sort of climb needs big power and there are 2 ways to achieve this
>>> Push a big gear
>>> Turn high rpm (100rpm+)
>>>>>>>> There is no "best"choice, different riders choice different approaches and the choice may vary by hill. However key thing is that you have a choice. Many riders make the mistake of trying to push too big a gear at too low revs and tire simply because of that. As an experiment you should try doing climbs in lowest possible gear revving as fast as you can. Just in itself this is good training and you may find it quicker/easier too. If you cant manage at least 90rpm then really you need more gears.

- Standing vs sitting: Similar to above these short climbs can be done standing or sitting. Standing allows bigger gear and also allows you to use your upper body and body weight to generate more power. Trade off is that it means losing power due to lower revs and, if done badly, is inefficient and tiring=worst option. So it's good to do same climb seated and standing to see which is easier. When standing try to keep revs up (really should be at least 60rpm ideally more than 70rpm) and making sure rhythm is really smooth (just watch Alberto Contador and try to look like him).

MartinGT

I have never shied away from climbing, I love it.

Last year I had a set back in my health. I am epileptic and around August time I had several seizures and it knocked me for 6. The anti seizure medication I was taking was making me nauseous when putting large efforts in, so I had no option but to back off.

Around Nov time I was getting better and starting to feel better. I came off the stronger meds, but since then, I felt my climbing and other large efforts had suffered.

I ride with a group of lads and I used to be one of the quicker ones, but now I am out the back pretty quickly on the climbs and when the pace goes up.

I am hoping its just the beginning of the season and I am still building up fitness like, but I was also trying to improve my climbing as it was before my illness.

I shall keep on with the TrainerRoad Session and also, as the nights are getting lighter chuck in some actual hill repeats too

A lot on here to give me a boost. Thanks guys

dwanes

Martin, I know the Malham cove climb that you posted and it is a great climb and fantastic scenery.

I don't know why I don't appear on that segment at all? but I am in the Top Ten on the Malham cove climb and Cove Road climb segment, which is the same climb but a touch longer.

Number one on that segment lives a couple of miles down the road from me, I wish I could climb like him!

I don't do any specific routine training when it comes to hill climbing other than doing a hillier course as possible in the evenings(which is effectively hill repeats) round here. I tend to push in a big gear, which builds up strength.
Main thing is to keep going.
Things dont get any easier, you just get faster.

MartinGT

dwanes wrote:

Martin, I know the Malham cove climb that you posted and it is a great climb and fantastic scenery.

I don't know why I don't appear on that segment at all? but I am in the Top Ten on the Malham cove climb and Cove Road climb segment, which is the same climb but a touch longer.

Number one on that segment lives a couple of miles down the road from me, I wish I could climb like him!

I don't do any specific routine training when it comes to hill climbing other than doing a hillier course as possible in the evenings(which is effectively hill repeats) round here. I tend to push in a big gear, which builds up strength.
Main thing is to keep going.
Things dont get any easier, you just get faster.

Aye Mr Oldham is a bit special. Good lad to boot.

Like you I am missing on a couple of segments albeit on the same climb.

sloppyschleckonds

markhewitt1978 wrote:

There is a local sharp climb which I do at least once a month but never have I gotten anywhere close to the time I posted when I was chasing someone up on a sportive.

Always easier when someone is 'pacing' you up a climb.

dwanes

MartinGT wrote:

dwanes wrote:

Martin, I know the Malham cove climb that you posted and it is a great climb and fantastic scenery.

I don't know why I don't appear on that segment at all? but I am in the Top Ten on the Malham cove climb and Cove Road climb segment, which is the same climb but a touch longer.

Number one on that segment lives a couple of miles down the road from me, I wish I could climb like him!

I don't do any specific routine training when it comes to hill climbing other than doing a hillier course as possible in the evenings(which is effectively hill repeats) round here. I tend to push in a big gear, which builds up strength.
Main thing is to keep going.
Things dont get any easier, you just get faster.

Aye Mr Oldham is a bit special. Good lad to boot.

Like you I am missing on a couple of segments albeit on the same climb.

Do you know someone who goes by the name Lancs Strongarm on strava in you area?

MartinGT

I think, its a Mr Bustard. I think.

Its red Squirrel I want to know. I have been told that's Josh Edmonson, but not sure.