Training

nick1972

I'm training for the Prudential ride 100. But all the training guides I can find require either HRM, power meter or cadence. I don't have any, can anyone suggest another way I can work out a training programme.
Cheers

cougie

You can count your cadence - count how many times your knee comes up in 20 secs and multiply it by 3.

I'd not get stressed too much by that though - its just that beginners tend to pedal very slowly, and most pros would be a lot better at spinning.

Did the guides give you Heart Zones ? You could convert them easily into Rating of Perceived Exertion. OK not so tecchy - but it will do.

imposter2.0

Difficult to suggest anything useful without knowing what you are already doing, or what your riding history is like, but at the end of the day it's just a 100 mile bike ride. So your longer rides need to be working up to 4-5+hrs in length, and your shorter rides (ie 1-2hrs) might be better focused on maintaining a higher intensity.

ai_1

You can base your training intensity levels on perceived effort. It's more subjective than using a HR monitor or power meter but should still work fine.
this webpage should tell you a lot of what you need to know:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/arti ... ing-levels

nick1972

Thanks for the advice guys.

phreak

From the sounds of it, a major characteristic of the ride is zipping along at a reasonable speed in a decent sized group, so it might be worth going along to some club rides to get used to doing that (if you don't already).

bahzob

Nick1972 wrote:

I'm training for the Prudential ride 100. But all the training guides I can find require either HRM, power meter or cadence. I don't have any, can anyone suggest another way I can work out a training programme.
Cheers

You can make yourself a perfectly good training programme just using a watch (ideally with a timer) and some landmarks.

At its most basic find a route around 8-10 miles in length that you can cycle non-stop (or very close to), ideally a loop. If you need help on this just contact your local cycle club and ask them for their time trial routes.

Ride this route hard and record your time. That sets one PB, say PB1..

Another day ride the route several times so that the total time is longer than an hour. That sets another PB, say PB2.

Another day ride the route in a series of short chunks that take 1-5 mins to complete. There should be some land marks along the way that you can use for this. Ride some chunks as hard as possible and record time for these, say PB3 (there will be several of these), other chunks just ride really easily as you recover.

Make a mental note of the exertion for each of the above, things like how hard you are breathing, what hurts, what makes you stop. You should find subtle differences between each of the 3, since each stresses a slightly different part of your physiology.

At the most simple level now all you need to do for training is go and repeat the rides, trying to beat your PB each time and noting how your effort symptoms change.

Ride as often as you can (I'm assuming you wont be able to ride every day), if time permits try doing several PBs. Ofc you won't beat your PB every time you ride, that's fine, its the trying and getting close that will make you fitter.


To add a level of sophistication:
- For PB1 split the ride in half, ride at a pace faster than PB1 for the first half, stop and rest 3-5 mins then ride at a pace faster to finish. So "moving" time will be quicker than PB1 though total time will be longer. Keep doing this, if it starts to feel OK have a go at doing complete PB1 at the pace you have practised

- For PB2 try doing multiples seeing if you can maintain your hour+ pace for more hours. You will notice a drop off but as you get fitter this will become less. Also this can be used to test food/drink, at around 2-3 hours or so you should start to see a big difference between doing a ride just with water vs using sports drink/eating. Ultimate test here is do ride as long as the event you are targeting.

For PB3s try changing the rest time and seeing what effect this has. E,g, double the amount of rest and see if that means you can do your PB3s quicker. Alternatively ride the "recovery" slots at your PB1 or PB2 pace and see how close to your PB3 you can get.

Ofc riding the same route will become a bit mind-bending but its easy to adapt approach to set PBs on other routes, e.g. hill climbs are great for short PB3s.

Other thing is that PBs will be affected by weather and your riding position. For the former you can just do like Top Gear and have different PBs for "wet" or "windy". For the latter just try to hold the same position which should be like the one you will be using most in your chosen event. That said once you have done a few rides you may find it interesting to see how changing position affects your time.

Another good way to build on this is enter time trials at your local club. The extra motivation of being in a "race" may well help you beat your PB and also give you more routes to practice on.

Like said nothing too complicated about this approach but it should work. For most of cycling's history, before the arrival of HR/power gizmos, it was the way most folk trained and they did OK with it.

Good luck

imposter2.0

Bazhob, did you mis-read his post - he's training for a 100 miler - not the local club 10.

bahzob

No. See PB2.

The process outlined is pretty much what I use except that I measure based on power. And I am training for and doing very well at rides of 100miles and longer

ai_1

That advice looks completely wrong to me Bahzob!
From what you've suggested one would think every training session should be an all out effort to beat PBs.
This is not the case, far from it.

For endurance training it's generally accepted (to the best of my knowledge) that the best approach is to do high volumes of low intensity, easy training and small volumes of high intensity efforts. You should be pushing hard on your high intensity cycles but taking it pretty easy on longer efforts to build endurance.

Furthermore, even if big efforts were a good way to go, PBs over a set course are not very useful in judging changes in your ability unless weather conditions are very similar. Wind makes a massive difference to the time you'll set and may obscure any differences in effort or ability.

Base your training sessions on perceived effort, not times.

dwanes

Training doesnt need to be complicated. Just ride hard as you can on a hillier course as you can for as long as you can. Then gradually increase the distance.
When it comes to the 100 ride dont push so hard, and you will get round easy.

Forget all this power, cadence rubbish.

ai_1

dwanes wrote:

Training doesnt need to be complicated. Just ride hard as you can on a hillier course as you can for as long as you can. Then gradually increase the distance....

It doesn't have to be complicated but this is incorrect. You shouldn't be going flat out the whole time. Much of your training should be at a fairly comfortable effort.

imposter2.0

dwanes wrote:

Training doesnt need to be complicated. Just ride hard as you can on a hillier course as you can for as long as you can. Then gradually increase the distance.
When it comes to the 100 ride dont push so hard, and you will get round easy.

Forget all this power, cadence rubbish.

As above - I agree it doesn't need to be complicated. But I don't agree with the suggestion that you need to be battering yourself all the time. The old adage is "finish your long rides feeling good - finish your short rides feeling wasted" - or something like that...

dwanes

Ai_1 wrote:

dwanes wrote:

Training doesnt need to be complicated. Just ride hard as you can on a hillier course as you can for as long as you can. Then gradually increase the distance....

It doesn't have to be complicated but this is incorrect. You shouldn't be going flat out the whole time. Much of your training should be at a fairly comfortable effort.

If you ride much of your ride at a comfortable pace lets hope your big ride isn't any time soon.

and whats wrong with finishing your long rides wasted. With an attitude like that we wouldn't have won the war.

The OP needs to get FIT for a 100 mile ride, not fanny about with intervals, power output, cadence etc.. Just go out, grit your teeth, and put some real effort into your rides.

ai_1

dwanes wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

dwanes wrote:

Training doesnt need to be complicated. Just ride hard as you can on a hillier course as you can for as long as you can. Then gradually increase the distance....

It doesn't have to be complicated but this is incorrect. You shouldn't be going flat out the whole time. Much of your training should be at a fairly comfortable effort.

If you ride much of your ride at a comfortable pace lets hope your big ride isn't any time soon.

and whats wrong with finishing your long rides wasted. With an attitude like that we wouldn't have won the war.

The OP needs to get FIT for a 100 mile ride, not fanny about with intervals, power output, cadence etc.. Just go out, grit your teeth, and put some real effort into your rides.

dwanes,

Have you any basis for this opinion or is it just something that seems right to you?
I think it would be very difficult to find any coaches or sports scientists would agree with you.
Getting fit is not best achieved by thrashing yourself. That used to be the assumption decades ago but that theory has been tested and found faulty. That's not how athletes train now and you may notice that they've gotten faster.
There's no need to make training highly complex and I never suggested anything based on power output and/or cadence although why you call it fannying about I don't know.
It's very simple as myelf and Imposter have said previously. His quote pretty much sums it up: "finish your long rides feeling good - finish your short rides feeling wasted"
Your short rides can be TT style hard efforts or Interval sessions or a both.

Your advice will lead to fatigue, over-training, potential injuries and reduced performance. Plus it's no fun!
I take it you think rest days and regular periodic easier weeks are also a stupid idea?

meanredspider

I'm with the guys here - I'd be pacing myself on the longer rides and going hard at it on the shorter rides. A cheap Polar HRM is cheap as chips and would help you - especially when you're going slowly (which I find hardest). I know I can ride all day (several days in a row) if I keep my HR below 70%.

lyn1

Unless I have misunderstood, the OP just wants to get round a 100 mile route....no specific performance targets other than that.
So no need for a formal training programme or cadence, HR, or power input.
Just ride at a pace that is comfortable and enjoyable. Gradually increase total weekly mileage and length of longest ride. Try to get to at least 80 miles for your long ride within a couple of weeks of the event.
On the day do not try to ride faster than you are used to or get caught up in the atmosphere and try to keep up with others.

Dodger747

Got to agree with lyn1, based on the OP that would be my advice too.

ai_1

What lyn1 suggests will certainly get you there but mixing in some higher intensity short cycles has a few benefits and I don't see a reason why you wouldn't avail of them. For one thing, it adds variety to keep you interested. I much prefer a mixture of long flat rides, long mountain rides and short fast rides. If I've got company who's up for a few sprints all the better. There are performance benefits but the main driver is enjoyment.
The suggested long rides of increasing distance are sensible but for most of us other time commitments meam we usually only grt out for a long ride at the weekends. So if you're also doing some shorter rides during the week, why not make some of them faster?

john1967

dwanes wrote:

Training doesnt need to be complicated. Just ride hard as you can on a hillier course as you can for as long as you can. Then gradually increase the distance.
When it comes to the 100 ride dont push so hard, and you will get round easy.

Forget all this power, cadence rubbish.

Fascinating. Please explain why the most powerfull training tools are rubbish.