New Wheels Advice Please

veterangaz

I am currently using Shimano Rs10 that came with my bike (Cannondale Super 6 Apex). Thinking about upgrading the wheels to one of these. I have never upgraded a major part before so would I notice the difference and make it worth the money? EG will I gain more speed, find hills easier etc? I don't do races but take part in epic sportives as well as the usual 60-70k when weekends permit. From my limited knowledge of bikes I need to keep with Shimano or risk having to also change the cassette. Any more experienced riders kind enough to share their views of below? £400 is my limit. (Well it was £200 this morning, £300 by lunch time and £400 now, but no more increases!)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... wgod1jUAnA

Or maybe shimano option of:-

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-zond ... -wheelset/

Or again Shimano option of:-

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/pro-lite-bracci ... -wheelset/


Many thanks

macroadie

I've never used any. I ride on Boyd vitesse and it's a do all wheel which i can fit 23/25/28mm tyres.

The Compagno seem to be a racers wheel so i would expect it more stiffness.
I like the Pro lite Bracciano.

LankyDJ

How about these,

http://www.4thebike.de/laufraeder/rennr ... ucf85l47r5

You may have to translate the page through Google. Ordered some a few weeks ago, great wheels. Ordered them on a Monday, delivered to my door by Thursday for 1 Euro. How's that for German efficiency!

Not only that, they're a steal at 370 Euro. This is around £100 - £150 cheaper than anywhere in the UK. Also come with Yksion Pro tyres.

Happy days........

cycleclinic

Lighter wheels will feel different but as for faster they may be but not buy much. The deeper the rim the heavier the rim and that is what you feel. So do not go by overall weight alone. Having said that you will notice much difference between the RS81's and the camapgnolo Zonda's. Also consider your weight. The heavier you are the quicker you will fatigue spokes especially on a very low spoke count wheel on average.

focuz

Campag Zonda's! Are brilliant! can't recommend their performance and quality enough.They work well with sram/shimano and i find getting up to speed and hills especially easier. Braccianos have increased a lot in price and seems to have decreased in quality aswell over the years.

Speckled

Zondas!

Ive only just bought a set and put a few miles on them, but there was a big difference from my stock wheels on my old giant. Felt so much smoother and stronger, just made the whole bike a lot more enjoyable to ride

sloppyschleckonds

veterangaz wrote:

EG will I gain more speed, find hills easier etc?

No.
Zondas!

Tjgoodhew

I put Zondas on my Caad8 and noticed a difference from the stock wheels. It was more so in responsiveness and acceleration than anything else. the bike just felt more nimble. They may of made a slight difference on speed and climbing but nothing monumental and i would put my improvements down to my increased fitness more than anything else

And IMO the G3 spoke pattern looks quality. I have read they may not be suitable for heavier riders tho

veterangaz

Great tips thanks, though now it is even harder to decide. Looks like the majority prefer Zondas though that link to the German place that sells mavic-ksyrium-elite look good. I guess there isn't going to be much difference between them all as they are hardly high end wheels but will be much better than my current shimano Rs10's which ever I choose.

I am about 81 kilos so my weight shouldn't be a problem I hope.

ugo.santalucia

I have seen your other thread about the broken spoke and all the hassle with it...
If you buy Mavic, Shimano, Campagnolo or Fulcrum wheels you can potentially have the same issue with spokes as they use proprietary ones

veterangaz

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have seen your other thread about the broken spoke and all the hassle with it...
If you buy Mavic, Shimano, Campagnolo or Fulcrum wheels you can potentially have the same issue with spokes as they use proprietary ones

Is this why it is best to get custom built wheels as they will tend to use spokes that are easy to come by? If I spent £400 on custom built wheels would they be as good as a £400 branded set or are you paying most of your money towards labour costs? there aren't any decent bike shops close to me.

ugo.santalucia

veterangaz wrote:

Is this why it is best to get custom built wheels as they will tend to use spokes that are easy to come by? If I spent £400 on custom built wheels would they be as good as a £400 branded set or are you paying most of your money towards labour costs? there aren't any decent bike shops close to me.

Some brands use proprietary spokes and solutions (that I mentioned earlier), others don't... if you buy HED Ardennes there is very little which is proprietary, or American Classics or Planet X, or Prolite... the custom route is a possibility, but I would go that route for reliability, comfort and the possibility to customise the wheels to suit your needs, rather than for what people call "performance", which is typically intended as "the fastest between A and B".
Pricewise they are similar in the mid to high range, while hand built are more expensive in the low range... basically you can't get anything for less than 200 pounds, but that's because nobody bothers to build with crap components, while the factories in the far east do

veterangaz

I see what you mean, thanks. I'll do some research on these other brands then! Yes, I don't want to be in a bad mood again in a year because I can't go out on my bike because I can't replace a spoke.

ugo.santalucia

veterangaz wrote:

I see what you mean, thanks. I'll do some research on these other brands then! Yes, I don't want to be in a bad mood again in a year because I can't go out on my bike because I can't replace a spoke.

I know, it's frustrating and it's not written in the product description... not even if you read the small print...
Imagine buying a car with a special battery that nobody stocks... if the battery goes flat, you have to wait for weeks for one to be available... the manufacturer would be out of business in no time... but in cycling everything is fogiven, as long as it says "lighter and stiffer" on the brochure...

northpole

I get what you say Ugo in terms of identifying potential risks however, I would balance that by noting that in all my years riding, the only wheels where I have had an issue with spoke failure was with hand built wheels. I've had dura ace, fulcrum zeros, zipp 303, mavic r-sys and they have all been and (touch wood) remain running true with no known spoke problems. Given that I weigh the wrong side of 13 stone, I reckon that's a pretty robust track record. I have heard of factory wheel failures, not sure of causes, even less sure of probability across a range of cyclist profiles.

Peter

cycleclinic

Not all handbuilt wheels are the same. Some builders build with compents or spoke counts ot suitable for the rider and others do not build a good wheel. There are many builders who do build good wheels though. Factory wheels are consistent in there quality and a good wheel builder will be consistent too.

northpole

A more concise summary statement of what I was alluding to!!

Peter

ugo.santalucia

northpole wrote:

I get what you say Ugo in terms of identifying potential risks however, I would balance that by noting that in all my years riding, the only wheels where I have had an issue with spoke failure was with hand built wheels. I've had dura ace, fulcrum zeros, zipp 303, mavic r-sys and they have all been and (touch wood) remain running true with no known spoke problems. Given that I weigh the wrong side of 13 stone, I reckon that's a pretty robust track record. I have heard of factory wheel failures, not sure of causes, even less sure of probability across a range of cyclist profiles.

Peter

For every story like yours there are a few stories of the opposite... what's bombproof for one is not for another one and I am not here to say one is better than the other, I am simply stating the obvious: if something happens, it's better to be on a product that can be easily fixed, rather than not. There are daily reports of broken spokes, so I don't think it's an impossibility... but you keep your fingers crossed and you'll be fine...

My car has never needed a new battery... but it might... and if it does I'd like to know I can get one straightaway, rather than being bounced between shops, dealers, importers and distributors for weeks...

THis doesn't have to become yet another factory vs hand built debate... I am just advising the OP as he had that very same problem with his RS 10

EDIT: did you get your hand built discounted from an online retailer?

veterangaz

That is right, my main concern is not the reliability of wheels as I will always get conflicting advice but after being stung with my current bike and unable to replace a £3 spoke my whole wheel is redundant. I just want a wheel that I can replace spokes easily without this problem.

On one forum people rave about the mavic-ksyrium-elite then on another they should be avoided like the plague so I will just have to take a punt on them or which ever I choose, just if I did need a spoke I would like to be able to get one within a couple of days.

ugo.santalucia

veterangaz wrote:

On one forum people rave about the mavic-ksyrium-elite then on another they should be avoided like the plague so I will just have to take a punt on them or which ever I choose, just if I did need a spoke I would like to be able to get one within a couple of days.

... which is a good reason NOT to get the Ksyrium Elite

northpole

EDIT: did you get your hand built discounted from an online retailer?

The last hand builts which I used were, I think, built by Condor Cycles. Admittedly they were supplied with one of their Italia's and were undoubtedly budget specced wheels, so perhaps not a fair comparison with the pricier factory wheels I subsequently used.

I recently bought a pair of Archetypes built by Strada - haven't used them yet but fingers crossed you are right!!

Peter

ugo.santalucia

northpole wrote:

The last hand builts which I used were, I think, built by Condor Cycles. Admittedly they were supplied with one of their Italia's and were undoubtedly budget specced wheels, so perhaps not a fair comparison with the pricier factory wheels I subsequently used.

It's a very busy workshop and when you have to charge 40-50 pounds per hour to pay the rent of a shop in Zone 1, you can see there isn't much time to build a budget set of wheels, so I am pretty sure their skilled mechanics have not built them, but they were rather outsourced to keep the cost down...

veterangaz

Think I am going to go for the Zonda, have great reviews on wiggle and everyone here seemed ok with them. Can't find many reviews of the shimano rs81. Also the zondas are a fair bit cheaper than the others but hopefully they will still make my ride a bit more exciting!

ugo.santalucia

:x :x

veterangaz

ugo.santalucia wrote:

:x :x

Does that mean wrong choice?! I will buy spare spokes!

hypster

I've had two sets of Mavic Ksyrium Elites, both of which came with new bike purchases. The original set were bought in 2002 and after a couple of years use pulled an eyelet out of the rear rim which cost around £100 to have the wheel professionally rebuilt. A couple of years later the same thing happened again and I was now unable to source a new rim so the wheel has hung in my garage to this day.

The second set came with a Scott CR1 that I bought a few years ago and is my "best" or Summer bike so sees relatively little use in comparison to my other bikes. The design of the eyelets in this set of wheels is substantially different from my original set so I can only assume that the problems that I encountered may have been a bit more widespread but I have no evidence of this. These wheels have been fine and I have probably put about 3000 miles on them in various sportives over the last few years.

I also have a set of Mavic Aksiums that I bought to use as training wheels several years ago. I broke a spoke in the rear a couple of years ago and fortunately one of the spokes from my old Ksyrium Elites fitted and has been trouble free ever since. I would estimate based on my annual mileage that I have probably put 20,000+ miles on these wheels so you could say I have had my monies worth!

I always had a hankering to build my own wheels and have owned Roger Musson's ebook for quite some time without doing anything about it. As the Aksiums were starting to come to the end of their useful life, I decided to try and build a set of wheels as spares just in case the Aksiums gave up the ghost suddenly. I built a pair of Mavic Open Pro rims on Shimano 105 hubs with 32 Sapim Race spokes front and back. They turned out pretty well but long story short they buckled on my second ride because I didn't have the tension high enough. I purchased a Park TM-1 tensiometer and haven't had a problem with any of the 20 or so wheels I have built since.

I'm relating all this because my point is although I have been pretty happy with the factory wheels I have used over the years, I would never buy a factory built wheel again. It's not just because I can build my own wheels now but as others have said on here, hand built wheels are constructed using readily available components.

The likes of Mavic et al use proprietary components which may or may not be available and even when they are will be inordinately expensive. They also tend to change over relatively short periods of time as well so you may find that spokes or rims for a particular model will not be produced any more maybe 3 or 4 years down the line. This may not be a problem for you as you may well take the view of why replace a rim for instance if it is not economically viable compared to just buying the latest bling set of wheels which have caught your eye in a magazine test?

Even if I couldn't build my own set of wheels I would be looking to someone with experience and knowledge such as Ugo or the Cycle Clinic to build me a set of wheels based on my weight, riding style and usage rather than something built for a broad spectrum which may or may not stand up to the test of time.

I weigh 185 lbs by the way so similar weight to the OP. The Shimano 105/Mavic Open Pros are my favourite wheels by the way which shows that you don't have to spend a fortune to get a nice set of wheels. Not especially light but not that heavy either but those Shimano hubs roll really nicely and are easy to service.

veterangaz

So if handbuilts tend to be the best as they are easier to fix in the long term can someone quote and build me a pair on here? I have just googled wheel builders in my area and nothing comes up. Handbuilts is just a whole new term for me as I am new to this. I do about 3000 miles a year excluding commuting so do want a decent set I can be proud of. If someone is hand building them how do it know they are not ripping a newbie like me off, they could just be putting shiny parts in that are cheaper than my current stock wheels, at least with your standard wheels off wiggle you can check reviews and send them back? If they are hand built will this mean I won't get much for £3-400?

ugo.santalucia

veterangaz wrote:

So if handbuilts tend to be the best as they are easier to fix in the long term can someone quote and build me a pair on here? I have just googled wheel builders in my area and nothing comes up. Handbuilts is just a whole new term for me as I am new to this. I do about 3000 miles a year excluding commuting so do want a decent set I can be proud of. If someone is hand building them how do it know they are not ripping a newbie like me off, they could just be putting shiny parts in that are cheaper than my current stock wheels, at least with your standard wheels off wiggle you can check reviews and send them back? If they are hand built will this mean I won't get much for £3-400?

You want to be proud of your wheels? :shock:
Get the Zonda...

rafletcher

veterangaz wrote:

If they are hand built will this mean I won't get much for £3-400?

So what is "not much"? Not much bling? Probably not. Not deep rims with flashy graphics? Probably not. A good, true (and likely to remain so) pair of wheels. Probably.

For your budget try http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk/. (Other wheel builders are available, some posting on your thread..and indeed thecycleclinic also posts on the forum) You can get H Plus Son Archetype or Velocity A23 rims built up in a variety of ways within you budget. Will you be "proud" of them - who knows, but they'll work just fine. And they get posted to you, so no need to live nearby.

veterangaz

I am not looking for bling/flashy graphics but value for money. So if I spend £300, I want them to be worth £300. I don't think it would be hard to make wheels to my liking or specification, I am average weight, average height and just a begginer to distance cycling as you can tell by me going round in circles. I have a demanding full time job and a demanding 7 month old daughter so I don't go on any cycling holidays but i do like to do the odd epic sportive with tough climbs ideally and I do like to do these in a decent time, eg Wiggle gold time. Ugo, do you have a link to your website?

Bar Shaker

ugo.santalucia wrote:

veterangaz wrote:

On one forum people rave about the mavic-ksyrium-elite then on another they should be avoided like the plague so I will just have to take a punt on them or which ever I choose, just if I did need a spoke I would like to be able to get one within a couple of days.

... which is a good reason NOT to get the Ksyrium Elite

Quite right.

The reasons you would buy them are because they are unbelievably stiff, light and have good bladed spokes. The construction will compliment every watt you produce and you will go out looking for hills to climb. They are also strong and you will be very unlucky to break anything, unless you ride down potholes... but potholes will break any wheel.

If being able to ride down potholes and repair your wheel the next day is your most important criteria, buy something else.

For everyone else, the Kysirium Elite is consistently the best sportive/club ride wheelset you can buy for £400.