Choosing between Rose xeon CGF an Canyon Ultimate cf slx

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Comments

  • vtorstein
    vtorstein Posts: 13
    edited October 2014
    The Rose Xeon CGF is best suited for dry condition, if you are gonna ride your bike in rain i would look at other options. Its a great bike, but the rear brake position is not suited for the combination of rain/dirt. I try not to use my bike in rain beacause of this problem.
  • duckson
    duckson Posts: 961
    Not read the thread but not sure why the SLX isnt being compared to the X-Lite?
    New X-Lite Team out for 2015, looks good value (kit, 800g frame) - http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/products/bik ... lite-team/
    Cheers, Stu
  • bus_ter
    bus_ter Posts: 337
    vtorstein wrote:
    The bikes runs great in dry condition is wasnt until i took a ride in rainy weather i had first negative experience, it seems that small stones and gravel sticks to the brake calipper and after riding for 2 hours the rims starts to touching the dirt/stones on the brake callipper especially when standing up and pedal, I think i will have to ride with some serious rim clearance in such conditions next time. The other thing is that the qsyrium sls rear wheel fills up with water , there not drilled any drain holes in the rims so i have to drill some hole myself, a bit dissapointing for such pricey wheels. I ordered a 57 sized frame with 172.5 mm pedals, maybe i should have gone with 175 mm pedals cause the seat is pushed all the way back to get my knees in the right position over the pedals. My inseem height is about 86.5 cm, so if you have 87 cm ore over inseem height you should go for the 59 frame. I now have 5.5 cm drop from seat to bar , but i think maybe have to raise the seat a bit. l have 2.5 cm with spacers .

    This is a concern to me. The main issue here is that something is flexing too much. Especially as you mention that it happens most noticeably when getting out of the saddle. The dirt and grit is probably just making this more obvious by producing more noise. This seems to be a problem affecting some bikes with direct mount brakes at the bottom. It seems this area is particularly vulnerable to wheel/frame flex. The most recent edition of Cyclist has a review for a very high end bike (possibly the new Parlee?) and it was completely ruined by this issue of the frame flexing. They tried different wheels but still had the same problem. It's a shame because moving the brakes here is all about marginal gains but if you're effectively applying the brakes everytime you put power down it's all being wasted and then some.


    I'm also looking to choose between Canyon and Rose bikes which is how I ended up here. Though since this thread started Canyon have released the Endurace model which is a more direct competitor to the Rose CGF series so you don't have to fudge an Ultimate SLX to fit. I'm not actually particularly after an endurance bike, but I fall into the long legs/short torso group. This means I need a short reach and a high front end which is typical of these bikes just to get a fit that matches an average person on a normal race geometry bike. Usually I would have to fit a short stem flipped upwards to get a good fit. Not so with these bikes.

    Regarding Canyon vs Rose I've done a little research and it's my opinion currently that the frames are more likely to be of a higher standard with better quality control than Rose. I've read several articles about Canyon. All though their frames are built in the Far East they design them and test them in house. They've got a lot of R&D and testing equipment. They say they even X-Ray the frames as part of quality control. They build the bikes on a sort of automobile style production line where one person is responsible for just one part of the build which is then checked by the next person etc. In fact all Canyon do is make bikes, and they make them for the highest competitive levels. Rose are essentially a parts supplier that also happen to build bikes. They also use Far East frames but they don't design and test them. They use pre made factory moulds. There are probably other bikes out there sharing the same frames. Not to say there's anything wrong with this as lots of brands do exactly the same thing. But you're not going to see a Rose frame at a grand tour anytime soon.They're not race proven to the same level. I don't know what the Rose quality control is like but the fact the original poster didn't get the bike as he specced it is not a great sign. Rose bikes are still even cheaper than Canyon and offer much more customisation. I'm still tempted but I don't want an inferior frame.
  • gethinceri
    gethinceri Posts: 1,641
    "probably other bikes out there sharing the same frames".

    None that I have come across, none of the research I have done online has given information to suggest it is the case.
  • duckson
    duckson Posts: 961
    Your post seems to contradict what Rose say on their website? I dont think they jsut buy off the shelf moulds from the far east (although like most frames they are probably made there).

    http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/content/abou ... th-passion

    Our co-operation with Bocholt University of Applied Sciences under the management of Prof. Dr.-Ing. Kerstiens and Prof. Dr.-Ing. Nisch is another important component of our work. They focus on issues such as optimising the layout of carbon frames, developing an e-bike drive and holistic examination of the chassis behaviour on full-suspension bikes. This co-operation lets us combine our own years of experience in designing bike frames with expert knowledge of the use of the most modern materials and drive concepts. The latest research and development results can thus be put straight to work in practice. The results are frames and concepts that unite the best that science and practical design have come up with.


    http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/content/abou ... e-test-rig

    They seem to design, develop and test their models.
    They have also been a bike company since 1907, seems they have plenty of history.
    Also Canyon sell bike and parts, so do Rose....there is no difference.

    And not to mention the issues with the seat post cracking on the SLX.....still a superior product then?! :roll:
    Cheers, Stu
  • bus_ter
    bus_ter Posts: 337
    The first link I think is mostly marketing spiel. You'll get similar things from Planet-X and Ribble for example suggesting they designed and researched their bike frames for the optimum performance, carbon layup, etc blah blah but essentially they've just bought off the peg moulds. They haven't designed the frames so much as picked one out of a Chinese catalogue and put their own paint scheme on it. I thought Rose might be the same but I could be completely wrong. Is there a difference in quality and performance between canyon and rose frames? Does anyone have any Tour magazine or scientific test results?

    I do still stand by the fact that Canyon make bikes 1st, and sell accessories 2nd. Look at their respective sites and catalogues. The Rose catalogue is the size of a Yellow Pages with one chapter dedicated to bikes. Canyon it's 95% bikes. Not that any of this necessarily has any affect what so ever on the quality or performance of the bikes but it is the case non the less.
  • duckson
    duckson Posts: 961
    I own neither but i do think you are completely wrong.

    You stated after your research on Rose "They also use Far East frames but they don't design and test them. They use pre made factory moulds.". Seems to be completely inaccurate (I have nothing other than what Rose say to back it up) so your research must of lasted a couple of minutes tops. Or you arent very good at it.
    Cheers, Stu
  • bus_ter
    bus_ter Posts: 337
    Once again duckson you've turned to insults because you don't agree with other peoples opinions. It's a little sad to see to be honest. We'll agree to disagree on this and I'll leave it there. Good day Sir.
  • duckson
    duckson Posts: 961
    No problem, just a bit annoyed you wrote a fair bit of text to state something about Rose after your own research but have nothing to back it up and spending a couple of minutes looking on Rose's own website seems to contradict what you stated. I felt i just needed to put the record straight (AFAIK) as anyone reading it might dismiss a certain brand due to it.

    Have a good evening anyway.
    Cheers, Stu
  • rickeverett
    rickeverett Posts: 988
    bus_ter is wrong about ROSE. They design and manufacture there own frames just like Canyon.

    Afterall they are German. Germans don't just buy a off the shelf part in for the far east and slap an name like Planet X on it. :wink:
  • duckson
    duckson Posts: 961
    LOL
    Cheers, Stu
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    rickeverett wrote:
    bus_ter is wrong about ROSE. They design and manufacture there own frames just like Canyon.

    Afterall they are German. Germans don't just buy a off the shelf part in for the far east and slap an name like Planet X on it. :wink:

    Ahh! there you are Rick :D
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • sophidog
    sophidog Posts: 180
    vtorstein wrote:
    I ended up buying a Rose CGF , it turned out to be an easy choice since Canyon didn`t answer any of my e-mails. Rose on the other hand was very helpful and has a very good costumer service.
    so how do you like it vtorstein now that you've had a 'summer' on it pls? I've been looking at the CGF as my present to myself just after Xmas as I'll be retiring then. Had a quick ride on one at the Cycle Show at Birmingham and quite enjoyed it. Looked the bike over & couldn't see anything to worry about and it's such good value. I'm not expecting to do hundreds of miles a week and like the customisability on their website. Quite impressed also with the European test reviews on their site as well; both magazine based and buyers'.
    Road: Rose CDX-3000 Cannondale CAADX 105 2011
    Turbo: Fuji Nevada Mountain Bike(Y2K)
  • vtorstein
    vtorstein Posts: 13
    I`m very happy with the bike , the only thing that`s could be better is the positioning of the rear brake. But if you prefer to ride your bike in good weather, BUY IT.
  • alexseverus
    alexseverus Posts: 2
    Hi,

    I live in Bulgaria and decide to buy Rose XEON CGF 2000. I see you are satisfied from the bike (except rear brake position), but what do you think about Rose support? Is it good as their bikes too?
    Regards,
  • gethinceri
    gethinceri Posts: 1,641
    Their customer service and response to queries or issues cannot be faulted in my rxperience.
  • vtorstein
    vtorstein Posts: 13
    I have nothing bad to say about their customer support, what do you think about the bike , have you received it yet?
  • alexseverus
    alexseverus Posts: 2
    No :) I will order it on monday - white/green :)

    2051530_1.4t3fae90kk.jpg
  • scopes15
    scopes15 Posts: 84
    I've been looking at Rose bikes as I'm looking to buy a carbon ultegra bike and these seem good value and I like the look of them. I'm not really sure what sizes to go for or what model. I've got a BTWIN Triban 7 just now which I understand to be sportive geometry but recently I have hired a Trek Madone and Scott Addict 15 and felt pretty comfortable on them so leaning towards a more racier ride.

    The Rose site seems good for people who know what they are looking for however I'm not sure on Stem sizes, what seatpost, what wheels are best (whats best between the Mavic Kysiums and DT Swiss??) I guess more research is needed. Sorry for the long winded reply!
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    scopes15 wrote:
    I've been looking at Rose bikes as I'm looking to buy a carbon ultegra bike and these seem good value and I like the look of them. I'm not really sure what sizes to go for or what model. I've got a BTWIN Triban 7 just now which I understand to be sportive geometry but recently I have hired a Trek Madone and Scott Addict 15 and felt pretty comfortable on them so leaning towards a more racier ride.

    The Rose site seems good for people who know what they are looking for however I'm not sure on Stem sizes, what seatpost, what wheels are best (whats best between the Mavic Kysiums and DT Swiss??) I guess more research is needed. Sorry for the long winded reply!
    For sizes it's worth comparing the effective horizontal top tube length and stem length on your current bike with the one you're looking at buying. Assuming your current bike is a good fit, you're looking for something similar. This will dictate the reach to the tops but the specific handlebars will also have an impact as they will also dictate the reach to the hoods and drops. The reach (distance forward from where the stem clamps the bar to the bend at the front of the drops) on some bars is much less than others. However you can measure what you've already got and should be able to find measurements for whatever you're getting on the Rose so you should be able to add/subtract the appropriate amount. So long as you get the top tube right and you're sure the aggressive geometry is okay for you a stem swap should be all that's needed to make corrections later if you don't get it spot on.
    There are also several online bike fit calculators which you can use to estimate the correct bike geometry for you based on your body dimensions.

    I think this one is the best I used:
    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store ... orBike.jsp

    P.S.
    It's probably best to err on the small side. That way if you have a medium length stem (say 100mm) you'll have a bit more scope to increase your reach by up to 30mm or so with a longer stem than if you started with a bigger bike and needed to go to a very short stem.
  • cookeeemonster
    cookeeemonster Posts: 1,991
    Ai_1 wrote:
    scopes15 wrote:
    I've been looking at Rose bikes as I'm looking to buy a carbon ultegra bike and these seem good value and I like the look of them. I'm not really sure what sizes to go for or what model. I've got a BTWIN Triban 7 just now which I understand to be sportive geometry but recently I have hired a Trek Madone and Scott Addict 15 and felt pretty comfortable on them so leaning towards a more racier ride.

    The Rose site seems good for people who know what they are looking for however I'm not sure on Stem sizes, what seatpost, what wheels are best (whats best between the Mavic Kysiums and DT Swiss??) I guess more research is needed. Sorry for the long winded reply!
    For sizes it's worth comparing the effective horizontal top tube length and stem length on your current bike with the one you're looking at buying. Assuming your current bike is a good fit, you're looking for something similar. This will dictate the reach to the tops but the specific handlebars will also have an impact as they will also dictate the reach to the hoods and drops. The reach (distance forward from where the stem clamps the bar to the bend at the front of the drops) on some bars is much less than others. However you can measure what you've already got and should be able to find measurements for whatever you're getting on the Rose so you should be able to add/subtract the appropriate amount. So long as you get the top tube right and you're sure the aggressive geometry is okay for you a stem swap should be all that's needed to make corrections later if you don't get it spot on.
    There are also several online bike fit calculators which you can use to estimate the correct bike geometry for you based on your body dimensions.

    I think this one is the best I used:
    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store ... orBike.jsp

    P.S.
    It's probably best to err on the small side. That way if you have a medium length stem (say 100mm) you'll have a bit more scope to increase your reach by up to 30mm or so with a longer stem than if you started with a bigger bike and needed to go to a very short stem.

    It's worth pointing out that Rose have their own bike fit/size calculator. They have a video explaining how to measure yourself...you then input your measurements to get the bike size, plus crank length, handlebar width and so on. If you're still not sure then it might be worth popping them an email with your dimensions plus some measurements from your current bike and so on? Also explaining what type of geomentry you're going for i.e. racier or sportive
  • gethinceri
    gethinceri Posts: 1,641
    As CookeeMonster says, plus: Phone them, they speak better English than most English people.
  • scopes15
    scopes15 Posts: 84
    Thanks, I've emailed them and will order soon!
  • dastott
    dastott Posts: 19
    Sorry to revive an old thread but I am also torn between the Canyon Ultimate CF SLX and the Rose X-Lite Team. Both very similar specs although the 59 cm Rose has a longer seat tube and head tube than the 58cm Canyon making it a tricky decision. I am 185cms and 90cms inseam. The Rose seems to offer somewhat better value than the Canyon as their claimed weight is 6.05 kgs v 6.45 kgs for mechanical Dura Ace. The greater customizabililty of the Rose is also attractive. First world problems!
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655772#p19655772]dastott[/url] wrote:
    Sorry to revive an old thread but I am also torn between the Canyon Ultimate CF SLX and the Rose X-Lite Team. Both very similar specs although the 59 cm Rose has a longer seat tube and head tube than the 58cm Canyon making it a tricky decision. I am 185cms and 90cms inseam. The Rose seems to offer somewhat better value than the Canyon as their claimed weight is 6.05 kgs v 6.45 kgs for mechanical Dura Ace. The greater customizabililty of the Rose is also attractive. First world problems!

    How many GT stage wins does the Rose have?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • alex222
    alex222 Posts: 598
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655782#p19655782]SloppySchleckonds[/url] wrote:
    How many GT stage wins does the Rose have?
    Maybe that's why Rose are better value, as they're not having to cover the cost of paying pro teams to use their bikes
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655772#p19655772]dastott[/url] wrote:
    Sorry to revive an old thread but I am also torn between the Canyon Ultimate CF SLX and the Rose X-Lite Team. Both very similar specs although the 59 cm Rose has a longer seat tube and head tube than the 58cm Canyon making it a tricky decision. I am 185cms and 90cms inseam. The Rose seems to offer somewhat better value than the Canyon as their claimed weight is 6.05 kgs v 6.45 kgs for mechanical Dura Ace. The greater customizabililty of the Rose is also attractive. First world problems!
    Ignore the weight difference as some Rose buyers have said their bikes are coming up heavier than the site states and I doubt you would notice the difference anyway.
  • lakinlakin
    lakinlakin Posts: 62
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655806#p19655806]Alex222[/url] wrote:
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655782#p19655782]SloppySchleckonds[/url] wrote:
    How many GT stage wins does the Rose have?
    Maybe that's why Rose are better value, as they're not having to cover the cost of paying pro teams to use their bikes

    I agree.

    Nearly bought a Canyon Ultimate CF SL 9.0. I love the look of Canyon's bikes. In the end went for a Rose x-lite crs 3000. Not as good looking as the Canyon but the same weight and £300 cheaper.

    Canyon bikes are great but so are a lot of other manufacturers bikes, many of which don't have 'race proven' pedigrees.

    I think the standard of bike manufacture is getting better and better. Just like with cars - remember the reputation Skoda had in the UK? These days it's more likely you are going to get a well built/engineered product than a duff one.
  • soundstrue
    soundstrue Posts: 1
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=18738135#p18738135]vtorstein[/url] wrote:
    I am about to buy me a new road bike and have come down to either Canyon ultimate cf slx ore Rose Xeon CGF.
    I now have a Cannondale synapse. I dont want more than 4-5 cm drop from seat to the the bar and are not sure I will get that on the canyon. The Rose bike is a gran fondo bike, so it wont be a problem on that bike. But the Canyon bike looks better and is lighter. Rose frame size 57
    I am 86 cm inseem an 183 cm tall. Canyon frame size 56.
    Does anyone have any opinions that could help me?:)

    Hi Just wondered if you solved your dilemma. Did you go for a Canyon or Rose. I am facing the same question now.

    Also you mention that you have a Cannondale Syanpse. As this is one of my options (carbon synapse with ultegra) I am wondering why you felt the need to purchase what seems to be a sportive bike with similar set up (and one that gets such brilliant reviews). If you got a Canyon or a Rose CGF I wonder how they compare in terms of comfort and lightness to the Synapse?

    Many thanks
  • vtorstein
    vtorstein Posts: 13
    I am buying this bike next year, I have been waiting for an update of the Rose CW frame, I have been looking for aero bike for a while but havent bought one because of I have been waiting for this bike. I am so happy with my Rose CGF bike that I am choosing Rose once again.

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