Training for climbing, Alps style

davep1

Hi all

I'm hoping to climb this early in April -

http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Co ... ainID=1536

Although the title refers to the Alps, it is in the Apennines in Italy; I said Alps because I think it is similar to several Alpine climbs. I've done it before, and got to the ski resort at Passo Lanciano, about 2/3 of the way up. It isn't the gradient that did me, it was the unrelenting slog of bottom gear, in and out the saddle. It was also hot which I have never been great at coping with.

So I am trying to find out how best to prepare for this; I have 11 weeks and live in the South Downs near Shoreham, so there is nothing like the length of hill. Should I try climbing in the 25 or or 23 teeth ring, rather than the 27? That will maybe slow my cadence down to something similar. Any other ideas?

imposter2.0

Get used to maintaining sustained high efforts for 45-60mins or longer. Ironically, you probably don't need to ride up a hill to do that (in any case, there are probably no climbs that long anywhere near you). A long, flat road would do, as would a turbo.

pan280

Also going up a steep hill with a slow cadence is not great for your knees.
Loosing weight if possible could also help.

twotyred

It isn't the gradient that did me, it was the unrelenting slog of bottom gear, in and out the saddle.

Yes it was the gradient that did for you. Well the combination of gradient and what looks like too high a gear to give you a comfortable cadence. There's two ways of tackling that. Either up your sustainable power to the point where you can happily turn over the lowest gear you currently have or consider lowering your gearing by fitting a compact chainset or fitting a triple or maybe an SRAM Apex 32 or 34 cassette combined with a compact chainset. Lowering the gearing is the lower risk option. Nobody failed to get up an alpine climb because their gearing was too low. You'll find lots of continentals using triples and they know a thing or two about climbing big hills

As for the heat try to get out to Italy a few days earlier to acclimatise or use the Bradley Wiggins technique of putting your bike in a shed on a turbo with a heater pointed at you :evil: Also make sure you drink plenty when on the climb. I know this can be difficult when you are on your limit but make sure you drink regularly.

Unless you have access to a local Alp then long intervals at or near your threshold are a perfectly acceptable alternative to duplicating the type of effort you will need on the day.

dw300

Put an appropriate gear on your bike?

hypster

I have cycled with friends in the Alps in the past two years and we have entered the Marmotte this year. We've tackled all the standard “biggies” i.e. Alpe d'Huez, Galibier, Croix de Fer, Ventoux etc. We all have either triples or compact chainsets with appropriate cassettes. I am 58 years old, 6' 4”, 189 lbs and get up everything on a 30-28.

We usually train doing multiple climbs of the longest, steepest hills we can find in our less than ideal area of Essex. I usually climb fairly slowly but in a slightly bigger gear to try and mimic the sort of grinding climb that is the Alps. We also enter several century sportives in the months leading up to our trips most of which have as much climbing as possible.

Living near the South Downs as you do you will have easy access to climbs like Devil's Dyke and Ditchling Beacon plus no doubt several other similar climbs on the downs. These in my experience will be slightly steeper than the average Alpine climb so should be a good place to train and increase your leg power. The secret in the Alps is to climb at your own pace and I usually find getting out of the saddle periodically helps me but you might find staying seated suits you better.

davep1

Thanks for the help lads. I'm stuck with the gearing, I''ll be on one of my mate's bikes. They are both better than what I have here in the UK so can't complain!

phreak

As Imposter said, your best bet is to practice for hour long constant efforts by riding hour long constant efforts. Not only will this improve your power, but it will get you used to pacing yourself.

Couple that with some weight loss and you should be fine. You can't really train for the heat, but it goes without saying you should find an energy drink/gel that your stomach agrees with at high intensity. It's unlikely you'll be able to chew, so will need some energy that you can get down quickly.

bahzob

Not done this climb but done 100s like it Advice above is good.

Best way to train for long climbs like this one in the UK is NOT to climb hills. They are way to short and just encourage the wrong style of riding for this sort of challenge.

Try to find a long flat loop near you with no stops and few as possible places where you freewheel.

Do 1-2 hours effort on this loop regularly, ride hard/non-stop, first time set a PB for it and try to beat that every time you go out. Choose a gear that allows you to pedal at the cadence you expect to climb at.

Keep doing this, at the same time trying to shed some weight. 4-6 weeks beforehand you can add in a few short hard climb efforts if you like, which are also useful for checking bike gearing/climbing position.

3-4 weeks before add in one session per week where you ride the loop for a time equivalent to your target climb time. Apart from confirming your fitness you can also use this to check out pacing: Most sensible is start easy and work up intensity, don't go mad at the bottom, especially for a climb like yours where the hardest section is at the top.
You can also use this to practice eating/drinking. If heat is a problem you can include a routine to remind yourself to drink regularly e.g get used to a sip or two every 10 minutes.

If you do this by the time you do the climb for real you should have the confidence to know you are up for it physically. The adrenaline and beauty of doing the real thing may even make it easier than slogging round a loop on UK roads.

Tom Dean

all sensible advice apart from:

bahzob wrote:

...first time set a PB for it and try to beat that every time you go out.

Ride at an intensity you can recover from in a reasonable timeframe. 1-2 hours max/race effort is not likely to be very efficient in that regard.

mamba80

I would suggest you follow Chris Carmichaels book - the time crunched cyclist "century beginner programme" its a 8 to 11 week programme and doesn't involve treating every ride like a race but the turbo sessions are very hard, which makes them far less boring than banging out endless endurance intervals, its based around 6hrs a week.
If you follow it, it will work and you ll fly up the climb, I know folk who have used this programme to get round uk and euro sportives, that involve far more climbing than you are planning.

Grifteruk

+1 for Bahzbobs advice. Having trained for the past 3 years for the Alps the one inevitable truth IME is that you need to be used to working hard for periods of an hour or longer. I find it difficult to maintain 1-2 hour efforts like this on the road because of road traffic/roundabouts etc. Instead I set up the turbo for efforts I know mimic alpine climbs very well in terms of power output, cadence and heart rate. The reason is not only physical improvement for this type of activity but the mental aspect. IME the mental aspect is often as or more important as the physical element. Watching Froome and Quintana battling up Mont Ventoux in last years Tour on Youtube provides welcome distraction and impetus to get to the end. It also mimics to a limited extent a warmer climate - I end up in a very hot sweaty place by the end!

Been doing this for about a month and am seeing tangible gains at a higher effort over an hour or longer. Importantly though I have achieved the mindset of being able to churn the climb for an hour or longer which is probably the most pleasing aspect.

As for hydration if you have a garmin you can set it to an audible alert at set distances - often useful as a reminder to drink if you have a habit of forgetting to hydrate. A few of my club mates use this successfully.

Finally as to gearing, is there anything stopping you taking your own compatible chain and cassette with you to swap out when you get there? Not a big job once you know how and if it gets the bike to suit your style of riding so much the better.

writethatd0wn

This may not be the best advice but as you're in Shoreham then a really good road to do would be
http://www.strava.com/segments/mill-hil ... imb-629644

Its 4.2 km with a couple of downhill sections but the gradients will be similar to what you will be riding in Italy. If it was me I would then do some repeats on the final section with as little recovery as possible. As its a dead end road its really quiet which makes it a better bet than Ditchling beacon where the traffic can be awful. If nothing else it will get your legs used to climbing. I often incorporate steyning bostal into a ride out and back from worthing which can get you near to 1000 meters in under 50km

Gearing - whatever enables you to be able to spin up seated, you wouldn't want to spend too long out the saddle when climbing for 45-60 minutes

bahzob

Tom Dean wrote:

all sensible advice apart from:

bahzob wrote:

...first time set a PB for it and try to beat that every time you go out.

Ride at an intensity you can recover from in a reasonable timeframe. 1-2 hours max/race effort is not likely to be very efficient in that regard.

I'd stick by this suggestion. I assumed that this would not be a daily workout but, at most a few times per week.

This leaves plenty of time to recover.

At this sort of workout length my experience is that it's quite straightforward to improve each time you go out. First few improvements don't even need you to get fitter, just pace the ride a bit better and/or sort out issues with food/drink. Once you have these nailed then the fitness improvements will be kicking in and helping you go faster.

Anyway the bigger picture is aiming to improving your ability to do a big climb in 11 weeks time.

Riding hard for 1-2 hours will improve your fitness more quickly and to a greater absolute amount compared with taking it conservatively, even if you don't break your PB every time. If you do manage to overdo things then it will be pretty obvious as you probably have a nightmare ride one day, which will be a sign to take it easy for a short while. But this is no big deal and a better sign than never having such a day because you are undertraining.

Moreover riding hard and pushing yourself for this duration will toughen you up mentally as well, which for this sort of challenge is nearly as important as being up to it physically. Riding with a mindset "Can't ride too hard as I need to recover from this this" is just setting yourself up to fail imo.

davep1

writethatd0wn wrote:

This may not be the best advice but as you're in Shoreham then a really good road to do would be
http://www.strava.com/segments/mill-hil ... imb-629644

Its 4.2 km with a couple of downhill sections but the gradients will be similar to what you will be riding in Italy. If it was me I would then do some repeats on the final section with as little recovery as possible. As its a dead end road its really quiet which makes it a better bet than Ditchling beacon where the traffic can be awful. If nothing else it will get your legs used to climbing. I often incorporate steyning bostal into a ride out and back from worthing which can get you near to 1000 meters in under 50km

Gearing - whatever enables you to be able to spin up seated, you wouldn't want to spend too long out the saddle when climbing for 45-60 minutes

I know Mill Hill, although I usually do it on the MTB. I'm currently 323rd out of 350 odd on that segment, although we did have several rest stops when I went up recently. I was waiting for my ride buddies, of course!