Improving one minute power

herzog

Did my first power profile test of the year yesterday and my 1 min power stinks:
5s = 1193W
1m = 469W
5m = 344W
FTP = 312W

Weight 75 Kg.

Other than sets of 1-2min interval @ >135-145 FTP (Allen/Coggan), any other tips?

imposter2.0

what other riding/training are you doing?

herzog

Imposter wrote:

what other riding/training are you doing?

Structured training plan building progressively up to a key race in May (3 laps of 34km with a 300m climb which usually decides the groups (total 1260m climbing in 102km)). Numerous races beforehand, beginning March (snow permitting).

Workouts 5/6 days out of 7, which so far have been a predominantly been a mixture of Sweetspot, Endurance (club runs of around 100km), a little VO2 Max (more of which will be introduced in the next couple of weeks).

I know why my 1 min power is rubbish, I have never trained it.

amaferanga

Is your 1min test on the road or turbo? If it's turbo then try a proper all out road test - you'll probably be surprised at your Wattage.

napoleond

I used to get much better figures on the road, absolutely hammer it and hang on for dear life.

herzog

amaferanga wrote:

Is your 1min test on the road or turbo? If it's turbo then try a proper all out road test - you'll probably be surprised at your Wattage.

On the road...it really is that bad. Was pleased with the other numbers as I think it represents the level I race at (i.e., OK, but nowt flashy).

amaferanga

Proper all out test on a suitable road?

If your 1min power can't be improved significantly then maybe that race isn't the right one for you to target. What level do you race at?

jibberjim

Your 5 min power also looks way too low compared to your FTP.

I would almost guarantee those numbers are from inadequate testing (ie you don't know how to get your max 1 minute power out) and not indicative of your actual performance at all.

Ride more with power, and stop testing until you already know the circumstances in which you'll produce your best 1 and 5 minute powers.

Oh and if those numbers are remotely true, you would have hardly any chance of completing even 2 intervals of the 135%-145% of FTP 1 minute intervals.

herzog

jibberjim wrote:

I would almost guarantee those numbers are from inadequate testing (ie you don't know how to get your max 1 minute power out) and not indicative of your actual performance at all.

I hope so!

amaferanga wrote:

Proper all out test on a suitable road?

If your 1min power can't be improved significantly then maybe that race isn't the right one for you to target. What level do you race at?

Test as part of a Allen & Coggan power profile run (so already done 30 min tempo, then 1 x 5 min FTP effort by the time 1 min efforts were done). Incidentally, I think VO2 max is more important for my target race - the climb is around 3-5 min...can't remember without checking data from last year.

Last year the climb was OK, but I did however get totally done over in the sprint, I went far to early, faded very badly and got caught by the line. Last season, sprinting (for around 10-15 sec), climbing and riding in the bunch was all OK, only the short, intense efforts of 15 sec - 1min killed me (and cost me a couple of opportunities). So, I'm determined to improve this aspect of my riding.

I ride at a level called 'Hobby', we don't have the amateur categories like in the UK (e.g., I/II/III etc). We have Pros, Elite, Amateur (one level only), then Hobby. Road races are usually around 40-42 kph depending on field and course.

markwb79

Herzog wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

I would almost guarantee those numbers are from inadequate testing (ie you don't know how to get your max 1 minute power out) and not indicative of your actual performance at all.

I hope so!

amaferanga wrote:

Proper all out test on a suitable road?

If your 1min power can't be improved significantly then maybe that race isn't the right one for you to target. What level do you race at?

Test as part of a Allen & Coggan power profile run (so already done 30 min tempo, then 1 x 5 min FTP effort by the time 1 min efforts were done). Incidentally, I think VO2 max is more important for my target race - the climb is around 3-5 min...can't remember without checking data from last year.

Last year the climb was OK, but I did however get totally done over in the sprint, I went far to early, faded very badly and got caught by the line. Last season, sprinting (for around 10-15 sec), climbing and riding in the bunch was all OK, only the short, intense efforts of 15 sec - 1min killed me (and cost me a couple of opportunities). So, I'm determined to improve this aspect of my riding.

I ride at a level called 'Hobby', we don't have the amateur categories like in the UK (e.g., I/II/III etc). We have Pros, Elite, Amateur (one level only), then Hobby. Road races are usually around 40-42 kph depending on field and course.

Out of interest, where do you race?

herzog

Markwb79 wrote:

Herzog wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

I would almost guarantee those numbers are from inadequate testing (ie you don't know how to get your max 1 minute power out) and not indicative of your actual performance at all.

I hope so!

amaferanga wrote:

Proper all out test on a suitable road?

If your 1min power can't be improved significantly then maybe that race isn't the right one for you to target. What level do you race at?

Test as part of a Allen & Coggan power profile run (so already done 30 min tempo, then 1 x 5 min FTP effort by the time 1 min efforts were done). Incidentally, I think VO2 max is more important for my target race - the climb is around 3-5 min...can't remember without checking data from last year.

Last year the climb was OK, but I did however get totally done over in the sprint, I went far to early, faded very badly and got caught by the line. Last season, sprinting (for around 10-15 sec), climbing and riding in the bunch was all OK, only the short, intense efforts of 15 sec - 1min killed me (and cost me a couple of opportunities). So, I'm determined to improve this aspect of my riding.

I ride at a level called 'Hobby', we don't have the amateur categories like in the UK (e.g., I/II/III etc). We have Pros, Elite, Amateur (one level only), then Hobby. Road races are usually around 40-42 kph depending on field and course.

Out of interest, where do you race?

Switzerland, Bern area mainly.

jibberjim

Herzog wrote:

Test as part of a Allen & Coggan power profile run (so already done 30 min tempo, then 1 x 5 min FTP effort by the time 1 min efforts were done). Incidentally, I think VO2 max is more important for my target race - the climb is around 3-5 min...can't remember without checking data from last year.

So you were knackered, your 5 min test wasn't maximal (you were holding back for the 20 minute one), and your 1 minute was done when you were in theory completely knackered.

550/600+ is almost certainly more realistic and that would put you firmly in the "normal" zone.

How much do you weigh to only be racing "hobby" with pretty strong numbers?

herzog

jibberjim wrote:

Herzog wrote:

Test as part of a Allen & Coggan power profile run (so already done 30 min tempo, then 1 x 5 min FTP effort by the time 1 min efforts were done). Incidentally, I think VO2 max is more important for my target race - the climb is around 3-5 min...can't remember without checking data from last year.

So you were knackered, your 5 min test wasn't maximal (you were holding back for the 20 minute one), and your 1 minute was done when you were in theory completely knackered.

550/600+ is almost certainly more realistic and that would put you firmly in the "normal" zone.

How much do you weigh to only be racing "hobby" with pretty strong numbers?

75kg - just done an hours interval session on turbo (but with same PM as on the road) testing 1min and 2 min intervals - 1 min power was 510W (400W for 2 min), so yes, I think I was knackered when I did the test I wrote about above, though 510W is still pretty low.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it! The Hobby class is very competitive and I think this year I should be in the shout for some decent placings. I was doing well last year up until I broke my Femur in summer...

jibberjim

Herzog wrote:

75kg - just done an hours interval session on turbo (but with same PM as on the road) testing 1min and 2 min intervals - 1 min power was 510W (400W for 2 min), so yes, I think I was knackered when I did the test I wrote about above, though 510W is still pretty low.

I couldn't do 500watts for a minute on the turbo, have done over 670 on a couple of occasions on the road.

If I do a genuine maximal one minute, then carried on for a 2 minute max effort, I'd go from say 600watts for 1 minute to 305watts for 2. Exhausting your 1 minute power will in most people leave you unable to pedal, not just declining off 20%.

Your 1 minute power is much higher than any of the tests you've done so far. Seriously, 1 minute testing is really, really hard, although it depends a bit on your exact physiology - since you may have 70 seconds capacity rather than 50, which would make it a lot easier. Motivation can make a huge difference!

gotwood25

I understand you are using Garmin vectors to run these tests which I know to be very inaccurate.

I recommend that you swap for a turbo based virtual power method for much more accurate numbers. If you know anyone with a Tacx booster and a trainer road subscription then you should try and swap immediately.

herzog

gotwood25 wrote:

I understand you are using Garmin vectors to run these tests which I know to be very inaccurate.

I recommend that you swap for a turbo based virtual power method for much more accurate numbers. If you know anyone with a Tacx booster and a trainer road subscription then you should try and swap immediately.

Yeah, I'd also thought about getting my mother to drive next to me whilst conducting these 1-min tests shouting out wattages based on how Voeckler-like my facial expressions were getting...probably just as accurate.

littledove44

My one minute record is 254 watts. Think yourself lucky!

okgo

Herzog wrote:

gotwood25 wrote:

I understand you are using Garmin vectors to run these tests which I know to be very inaccurate.

I recommend that you swap for a turbo based virtual power method for much more accurate numbers. If you know anyone with a Tacx booster and a trainer road subscription then you should try and swap immediately.

Yeah, I'd also thought about getting my mother to drive next to me whilst conducting these 1-min tests shouting out wattages based on how Voeckler-like my facial expressions were getting...probably just as accurate.

And to the last poster, no, you do not, even an untrained 10 year old girl would probably be able to do more than 200w.

gotwood25

Herzog wrote:

gotwood25 wrote:

I understand you are using Garmin vectors to run these tests which I know to be very inaccurate.

I recommend that you swap for a turbo based virtual power method for much more accurate numbers. If you know anyone with a Tacx booster and a trainer road subscription then you should try and swap immediately.

Yeah, I'd also thought about getting my mother to drive next to me whilst conducting these 1-min tests shouting out wattages based on how Voeckler-like my facial expressions were getting...probably just as accurate.

Don't get condescending with me bonny lad, you and I both know Margaret can't drive so I call foul on your accuracy jibe! Do the swap and I will let this slide.

ozzzyosborn206

not sure if there are many ways to improve it other than just doing intervals of about that duration, if you have a hill that you can do them on then that is probably a good place to do them, but also so 1k efforts on the flat so you develop leg speed too

herzog

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

...if you have a hill that you can do them on then that is probably a good place to do them...

Thanks for the reply; no problem finding hills round here (Bern, Switzerland)!