Gravduro uniform

rockmonkeysc

I believe the climbs aren't timed but there is a time limit.
I have entered a Gravity Rally because it's local and I was told it was good last year. No idea what the hell it is. What size wheels do I need for that?

Hob Nob

I don't really see an issue in brightly coloured, functional kit. What's wrong with a bit of colour?

Not entirely sure how it's any different from cheb ends in wannabe MX kit trying to race DH and blowing out of their ass after a 30 second pedal...

rockmonkeysc

Hob Nob wrote:

I don't really see an issue in brightly coloured, functional kit. What's wrong with a bit of colour?

Not entirely sure how it's any different from cheb ends in wannabe MX kit trying to race DH and blowing out of their ass after a 30 second pedal...

The MX pyjamas were a few years ago in downhill. Never seen anyone blown out after a 30 second pedal. After a 2+ minute race run, if you put an effort in you will be finished.
It's a sprint race, no different to short distance sprint running. If you have any energy left at the bottom of the hill you wasted a run.

Hob Nob

There are plenty of tubbies in PJ's, both at the local push up spots, and at the races.

In fact I can't ever recall a DH race I've been to that's NOT like a parade of the latest TLD/Royal/Thor/etc catalogue.

People in glass houses, and all that. But hey, it's cool to hate on Enduro right now. Generally by DH riders who are a little bit worried it's stealing some of the limelight...

rockmonkeysc

No hate for enduro from me. I'm going to do a couple races this year.
It's just a hate for the Doddy (MBUK) look alikes.

CitizenLee

Gravduro? Really? They're taking the portmanteau far too far these days :roll:

FWIW, most of my riding kit is blue, but I don't look like Doddy. It's minimalist as I'm not fond of the flashy motocross look, or the full pro kit w@nker look.

Really though, do what you want a f_ck what anyone else thinks... far too many fictitious do's and don'ts in cycling 8)

welshkev

CitizenLee wrote:

Really though, do what you want a f_ck what anyone else thinks... far too many fictitious do's and don'ts in cycling 8)

exactly this

and gravduro? I've never heard that before

97th choice

At least these brightly attired to$$ers are out riding a mountain bike.

welshkev

97th choice wrote:

At least these brightly attired to$$ers are out riding a mountain bike.

and this

ilovedirt

Nobody calls it gravduro...

Kowalski675 wrote:

Lewis A wrote:

I have literally no idea what the difference is, since enduro is a gravity discipline, is 'gravduro' 'more gravity'?

Can you have more gravity, without moving to a different planet?

And do we now need another niche of bikes for Gravduro? Has anybody told the manufacturers yet? Maybe they could use a new wheel size too...

We already have a set of bikes for gravity enduro, they're being marketed as "enduro" which is wrong.
Enduro is, as I explained earlier, an XC race over several days, however I don't think they ever really got popular stateside, so the term "enduro" is new to the US companies, so it's simply "enduro" rather than "gravity enduro".

POAH wrote:

so Gravduro is the same as enduro which is like being timed riding a trail centre on a mountain except for the uphill bits.

Gravity enduro is similar to enduro, but the race is hours long rather than days, and the special sections are minutes rather than hours long and mostly downhill. The climb sections in between are not timed, however you do have a (generous) time limit to complete them.

bennett_346

ilovedirt wrote:

Gravity enduro is similar to enduro, but the race is hours long rather than days, and the special sections are minutes rather than hours long and mostly downhill. The climb sections in between are not timed, however you do have a (generous) time limit to complete them.

If the time limit is generous why have it at all? May as well just enter a DH event at least that way the terrain is as techy as it can be. The gravity enduro events I've seen were just fire road climbs and out of all the entrants none made it to the top outside of the allotted time making it a pointless exercise.

Kowalski675

ilovedirt wrote:

Nobody calls it gravduro...

Kowalski675 wrote:

Lewis A wrote:

I have literally no idea what the difference is, since enduro is a gravity discipline, is 'gravduro' 'more gravity'?

Can you have more gravity, without moving to a different planet?

And do we now need another niche of bikes for Gravduro? Has anybody told the manufacturers yet? Maybe they could use a new wheel size too...

We already have a set of bikes for gravity enduro, they're being marketed as "enduro" which is wrong.
Enduro is, as I explained earlier, an XC race over several days, however I don't think they ever really got popular stateside, so the term "enduro" is new to the US companies, so it's simply "enduro" rather than "gravity enduro".

I was taking the pi*s... :roll:

Angus Young

All this tosh just makes it harder to pick a bike.

bennett_346

Angus Young wrote:

All this tosh just makes it harder to pick a bike.

Just ignore it, it's all bollocks. Just buy whatever bike you want and ride it on what you want to.

lochussie

bennett_346 wrote:

If the time limit is generous why have it at all? May as well just enter a DH event at least that way the terrain is as techy as it can be.

By including some flat and uphill bits that would be crap on a DH bike (both in and between timed stages), you open up many more good downhill sections to racing. Also it is nice to race several tracks in a weekend rather than just the one. And finally, many people have an irrational fear of the terms DH and uplift, so this is a good way to get them out racing.

poah

enduro is difference from endurance - the fact that enduro has become the popular name for a particular type of mountain biking is because no one gives a feck about lycra clad people riding 29ers for extended periods of time

rockmonkeysc

Enduro is basically what most mountain bikers do every weekend. Plod up a hill and blast down the other side as fast as possible. I don't see why it needed a new name and definitely don't see the need for 160/170mm bikes with the same label.

poah

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I don't see why it needed a new name and definitely don't see the need for 160/170mm bikes with the same label.

mags have to write about something and company's need to sell bikes

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Enduro is basically what most mountain bikers do every weekend. Plod up a hill and blast down the other side as fast as possible. I don't see why it needed a new name and definitely don't see the need for 160/170mm bikes with the same label.

Because what do you call the race format?

ilovedirt

bennett_346 wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

Gravity enduro is similar to enduro, but the race is hours long rather than days, and the special sections are minutes rather than hours long and mostly downhill. The climb sections in between are not timed, however you do have a (generous) time limit to complete them.

If the time limit is generous why have it at all? May as well just enter a DH event at least that way the terrain is as techy as it can be. The gravity enduro events I've seen were just fire road climbs and out of all the entrants none made it to the top outside of the allotted time making it a pointless exercise.

I don't understand... Why does the fact that the times for the climbs are easily achievable make the event pointless? The point is that you have to do them, not that you have to do them quickly... Racing three or four long descents in one day is entirely different to racing one.

bennett_346

lochussie wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

If the time limit is generous why have it at all? May as well just enter a DH event at least that way the terrain is as techy as it can be.

By including some flat and uphill bits that would be crap on a DH bike (both in and between timed stages), you open up many more good downhill sections to racing.

Could you not ride them on a downhill bike?

Also it is nice to race several tracks in a weekend rather than just the one.

Could you not race several tracks on a DH bike in one weekend?

And finally, many people have an irrational fear of the terms DH and uplift, so this is a good way to get them out racing.

So like I said, it's for pussies :P

ilovedirt wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

Gravity enduro is similar to enduro, but the race is hours long rather than days, and the special sections are minutes rather than hours long and mostly downhill. The climb sections in between are not timed, however you do have a (generous) time limit to complete them.

If the time limit is generous why have it at all? May as well just enter a DH event at least that way the terrain is as techy as it can be. The gravity enduro events I've seen were just fire road climbs and out of all the entrants none made it to the top outside of the allotted time making it a pointless exercise.

I don't understand... Why does the fact that the times for the climbs are easily achievable make the event pointless? The point is that you have to do them, not that you have to do them quickly... Racing three or four long descents in one day is entirely different to racing one.

A race is meant to be just that, a race. An un-timed uphill section does nothing to categorise the fastest from the slowest or the most skilled from the least skilled. Why have them at all? To force you to use a certain kind of bike? I don't see why it needs to be categorised as a seperate event to downhill, could you not just run an event where you could enter on any bike you wanted and race down the same trails as you would on a gravity enduro?

ilovedirt

Yes, it is to force you to use a certain type of bike, otherwise, as you say, it would be a downhill race.

But not only that, it means the competitors have to be fairly fit in order to compete and makes the event about all day endurance as well as flat out sprinting, which is very difficult and requires a specific type of fitness to simply downhill or XC. The climbs might not be timed, but that doesn't mean that they're not an important part of the race format. It does a lot to categorise the fitter from the less fit - your average joe might manage one or two climbs and one or two sprints before being knackered - the pros have to be absolutely tip top all day until the very end. That's serious fitness, and very different to pure downhill racing. If you had raced either formats, I'm sure you would know.

bennett_346

ilovedirt wrote:

Yes, it is to force you to use a certain type of bike, otherwise, as you say, it would be a downhill race.

But not only that, it means the competitors have to be fairly fit in order to compete and makes the event about all day endurance as well as flat out sprinting, which is very difficult and requires a specific type of fitness to simply downhill or XC. The climbs might not be timed, but that doesn't mean that they're not an important part of the race format. It does a lot to categorise the fitter from the less fit - your average joe might manage one or two climbs and one or two sprints before being knackered - the pros have to be absolutely tip top all day until the very end. That's serious fitness, and very different to pure downhill racing. If you had raced either formats, I'm sure you would know.

Who cares what bike you ride - me thinks it's just a way of the marketing companies getting you to buy whatever is trendy and overpriced at the minute and that's enduro bikes.

You have to be arguably fitter to ride proper DH races, so the fitness thing makes no sense. Why couldn't you have a DH race format where you ride down several different courses over a weekend like "gravduro"? What i've always said will happen is happening, the bikes are becoming more interesting to the average joe than the riding itself is. A category based around a certain type of bike is ridiculous.

bennett_346

ilovedirt wrote:

Yes, it is to force you to use a certain type of bike, otherwise, as you say, it would be a downhill race.

But not only that, it means the competitors have to be fairly fit in order to compete and makes the event about all day endurance as well as flat out sprinting, which is very difficult and requires a specific type of fitness to simply downhill or XC. The climbs might not be timed, but that doesn't mean that they're not an important part of the race format. It does a lot to categorise the fitter from the less fit - your average joe might manage one or two climbs and one or two sprints before being knackered - the pros have to be absolutely tip top all day until the very end. That's serious fitness, and very different to pure downhill racing. If you had raced either formats, I'm sure you would know.

Who cares what bike you ride - me thinks it's just a way of the marketing companies getting you to buy whatever is trendy and overpriced at the minute and that's enduro bikes.

You have to be arguably fitter to ride proper DH races, so the fitness thing makes no sense. Why couldn't you have a DH race format where you ride down several different courses over a weekend like "gravduro"? What i've always said will happen is happening, the bikes are becoming more interesting to the average joe than the riding itself is. A category based around a certain type of bike is ridiculous.

ilovedirt

bennett_346 wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

Yes, it is to force you to use a certain type of bike, otherwise, as you say, it would be a downhill race.

But not only that, it means the competitors have to be fairly fit in order to compete and makes the event about all day endurance as well as flat out sprinting, which is very difficult and requires a specific type of fitness to simply downhill or XC. The climbs might not be timed, but that doesn't mean that they're not an important part of the race format. It does a lot to categorise the fitter from the less fit - your average joe might manage one or two climbs and one or two sprints before being knackered - the pros have to be absolutely tip top all day until the very end. That's serious fitness, and very different to pure downhill racing. If you had raced either formats, I'm sure you would know.

Who cares what bike you ride - me thinks it's just a way of the marketing companies getting you to buy whatever is trendy and overpriced at the minute and that's enduro bikes.

You have to be arguably fitter to ride proper DH races, so the fitness thing makes no sense. Why couldn't you have a DH race format where you ride down several different courses over a weekend like "gravduro"? What i've always said will happen is happening, the bikes are becoming more interesting to the average joe than the riding itself is. A category based around a certain type of bike is ridiculous.

What makes you say that you have to be fitter to race downhill?

The bikes are based around the category rather than the other way around. The idea is that you get to ride all day and ride different trails, rather than riding the same one. It also means you have less practice and competitors often race the trails blind, it's a totally different skillset to riding downhill as well as different fitness.

Having an uplift for three or four different trails on one weekend would be carnage, as well as being totally pointless...
Why have an uplift when you can ride up?
Why have a heavy barge of a downhill bike when you can ride a smaller, lighter bike that's more fun and almost as capable?
Why race just one trail when you can race many?
Why shouldn't we have lots of different types of bikes?

I'm just playing devils advocate here, but my point is this: not everyone wants to race downhill trails on a downhill bike. People are different. Live with it.

rockmonkeysc

Proper downhill racing requires very good sprint fittness to give three(ish) minutes of flat out, all or nothing sprinting. It's also about stringing together one perfect run, one bad corner can loose you four or five places.
Enduro is requires more endurance as well as sprint fitness. The descents are longer but not as technical or intense and the climbs are using energy. A couple minor mistakes aren't going to ruin your day racing.
The sports are comparable because they both involve racing down a hill but they need different skills and different types of fittness.
Enduro has kind of turned a day at a trail centre in to a race.
There is a place for both sports.

Hob Nob

A race is meant to be just that, a race. An un-timed uphill section does nothing to categorise the fastest from the slowest or the most skilled from the least skilled. Why have them at all? To force you to use a certain kind of bike? I don't see why it needs to be categorised as a seperate event to downhill, could you not just run an event where you could enter on any bike you wanted and race down the same trails as you would on a gravity enduro?

Because much like Rally events, the idea is you compete the whole course, including the timed sections. Each transition has a time limit If you don't make your next stage star time, you get a penalty.

The time limits have an inbuilt 'buffer' to allow for mechanicals/crash recovery etc. If you have a clean day, you get round nicely, if you flat on a stage, or have a mechanical, the pressure is on. If they don't allow a buffer, and keep transitions tight, then the day can be over before it starts. Hence why with sports such as WRC, they don't have to drive the transitions at flat out, race pace.

You don't have to race an 'Enduro' bike if you don't want to. There is nothing in the rules to state you have to ride anything in specific. There were quite a few HT's racing last year, right to the other extreme, of a guy riding a carbon Trek Session 88 with a Fox 180 single crown on the front. He was a broken man after 40km round Dyfi forest.

You have to be arguably fitter to ride proper DH races, so the fitness thing makes no sense. Why couldn't you have a DH race format where you ride down several different courses over a weekend like "gravduro"? What i've always said will happen is happening, the bikes are becoming more interesting to the average joe than the riding itself is. A category based around a certain type of bike is ridiculous.

As someone who rides, and races both categories, you argueably don't have to be fitter to ride proper DH races. Since starting to race enduro, I have to be considerably fitter to compete at the sharp end than previously, with DH.

ilovedirt

Hob Nob wrote:

A race is meant to be just that, a race. An un-timed uphill section does nothing to categorise the fastest from the slowest or the most skilled from the least skilled. Why have them at all? To force you to use a certain kind of bike? I don't see why it needs to be categorised as a seperate event to downhill, could you not just run an event where you could enter on any bike you wanted and race down the same trails as you would on a gravity enduro?

Because much like Rally events, the idea is you compete the whole course, including the timed sections. Each transition has a time limit If you don't make your next stage star time, you get a penalty.

The time limits have an inbuilt 'buffer' to allow for mechanicals/crash recovery etc. If you have a clean day, you get round nicely, if you flat on a stage, or have a mechanical, the pressure is on. If they don't allow a buffer, and keep transitions tight, then the day can be over before it starts. Hence why with sports such as WRC, they don't have to drive the transitions at flat out, race pace.

You don't have to race an 'Enduro' bike if you don't want to. There is nothing in the rules to state you have to ride anything in specific. There were quite a few HT's racing last year, right to the other extreme, of a guy riding a carbon Trek Session 88 with a Fox 180 single crown on the front. He was a broken man after 40km round Dyfi forest.

You have to be arguably fitter to ride proper DH races, so the fitness thing makes no sense. Why couldn't you have a DH race format where you ride down several different courses over a weekend like "gravduro"? What i've always said will happen is happening, the bikes are becoming more interesting to the average joe than the riding itself is. A category based around a certain type of bike is ridiculous.

As someone who rides, and races both categories, you argueably don't have to be fitter to ride proper DH races. Since starting to race enduro, I have to be considerably fitter to compete at the sharp end than previously, with DH.[/quote]
This, 100%.
I've raced downhill a few times, never raced enduro but ridden some enduro stages and racing my first enduro next month. I rode an enduro stage at coed y brenin at race pace after a day's riding and I was absolutely blowing out my arse! Enduro stages can be pretty long and intense - you ride a few of them flat out and you're gonna be knackered pretty quickly! They can be just as technical as proper downhill as well, but it varies from race to race.

Northwind

It was quite interesting seeing some of the top dh racers come apart trying to race in the EWS- not often you see Greg Minaar get passed by his 30 second man!

The reason people started talking about gravity enduro, was that in the UK we have a (retarded) tradition of describing endurance xc races as enduros, when they're no such thing. So people kept turning up at enduro races on 80mm xc bikes wearing what seemed to be swimming costumes, and it was inconvenient for the marshalls to have to bury them where they fell. In the early days it was useful. But enduro as a concept comes from motorbike enduro, meaning that it predates the mountain bike never mind the mountain bike race by half a century, and the term is now well understood everywhere except in bloomin Surrey.

The reason nobody says gravduro is that it makes it obvious you're a spastic.

POAH wrote:

how does that differ from normal enduro

"Normal" enduro is only held in space. And surrey.

CitizenLee

Northwind wrote:

It was quite interesting seeing some of the top dh racers come apart trying to race in the EWS- not often you see Greg Minaar get passed by his 30 second man!

The reason people started talking about gravity enduro, was that in the UK we have a (retarded) tradition of describing endurance xc races as enduros, when they're no such thing. So people kept turning up at enduro races on 80mm xc bikes wearing what seemed to be swimming costumes, and it was inconvenient for the marshalls to have to bury them where they fell. In the early days it was useful. But enduro as a concept comes from motorbike enduro, meaning that it predates the mountain bike never mind the mountain bike race by half a century, and the term is now well understood everywhere except in bloomin Surrey.

The reason nobody says gravduro is that it makes it obvious you're a spastic.

POAH wrote:

how does that differ from normal enduro

"Normal" enduro is only held in space. And surrey.

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