real foods v sports nutrition

paulleary

Interested in other peoples thoughts on real food v gels etc
my mate and i have very differing views
I maintain that homemade flapjacks with lots dried fruit nuts etc , bananas, jam/honey sandwiches and an occasional ham wrap ( salt craving ) is better for you and much easier on the digestive system.Homemade fortified choc milk as recovery drink. i do use electrolyte tabs for convenience as much as anything else .

My mate reckons the gel / power bar / recovery drinks route is better .
although we do agree on the importance of good coffee obviously !

What does everyone else think ?

diamonddog

Real food every time IMO, it's what your body is used to. The nearer you can stay to your normal diet the less likelyhood of an upset stomach.

marcusjb

Real food. Body can't handle the sports 'nutrition' stuff for longer rides.

Only non-real thing I use are Nuun tablets.

Bo Duke

Gels are supplements to real food, they are not replacements. Watch the pro's, In a longer race they eat solids from the musette and supplement with the artificials.

Porridge, flap jacks, bananas, nuts/raisins etc.. are best buut many people (me included) struggle to eat on the go.

sloppyschleckonds

paulleary wrote:

Interested in other peoples thoughts on real food v gels etc
my mate and i have very differing views
I maintain that homemade flapjacks with lots dried fruit nuts etc , bananas, jam/honey sandwiches and an occasional ham wrap ( salt craving ) is better for you and much easier on the digestive system.Homemade fortified choc milk as recovery drink. i do use electrolyte tabs for convenience as much as anything else .

My mate reckons the gel / power bar / recovery drinks route is better .
although we do agree on the importance of good coffee obviously !

What does everyone else think ?

If you cut out the refined carbohydrates and sugar in your 'real' food suggestions you may be getting somewhere.

dw300

Both.

NeXXus

paulleary wrote:

Interested in other peoples thoughts on real food v gels etc
my mate and i have very differing views
I maintain that homemade flapjacks with lots dried fruit nuts etc , bananas, jam/honey sandwiches and an occasional ham wrap ( salt craving ) is better for you and much easier on the digestive system.Homemade fortified choc milk as recovery drink. i do use electrolyte tabs for convenience as much as anything else .

My mate reckons the gel / power bar / recovery drinks route is better .
although we do agree on the importance of good coffee obviously !

What does everyone else think ?

Simple sugars vs complex sugars. I know what I'd rather have

Grill

I use both although I only switch to real food on long rides (12hr+). Even then I'm never competely off the gels and bars, it's just nice to mix it up a bit.

rayjay

KFC is nice and a good energy boost to start any ride or race.

Ice cream cone, stick a flake in if you are going up a hill, 2 flakes if it's a very long hill.

I tend to eat a big bag of chips on the way home so I don't bonk. If I am feeling really tired, I get a sausage in batter as well for that extra boost.

For recovery I usually drink half a bottle of Jack Daniels and a Cuban Cigar

dw300

rayjay wrote:

KFC is nice and a good energy boost to start any ride or race.

Ice cream cone, stick a flake in if you are going up a hill, 2 flakes if it's a very long hill.

I tend to eat a big bag of chips on the way home so I don't bonk. If I am feeling really tired, I get a sausage in batter as well for that extra boost.

For recovery I usually drink half a bottle of Jack Daniels and a Cuban Cigar

LoL .. KFC and Ice Cream? Are you mad. You need to be having meat and 2 veg. I've got a a 90 degree Garmin mount for the bottom of a dinner plate keeps it on the bars just great. Keeping the peas and gravy out of your lap when someone attacks is difficult, but it's all about the real whole foods..

bisoner

Guy I ride is a sports scientist for a footy team in London. He's a big fan of less carbs and more protein and fat to fuel those non-high intensity rides - infact his whole diet is around reducing carbs down to a bare minimum (training for an ironman). I was ribbing him with his babybels on a recent ride. Tried them last weekend and they seemed to work well enough. Make a nice change from the sweet stuff too.

Personally, I use dates and bananas mostly nowadays. I'll add the babybels to my back pocket as well.

Grill

bisoner wrote:

Guy I ride is a sports scientist for a footy team in London. He's a big fan of less carbs and more protein and fat to fuel those non-high intensity rides - infact his whole diet is around reducing carbs down to a bare minimum (training for an ironman). I was ribbing him with his babybels on a recent ride. Tried them last weekend and they seemed to work well enough. Make a nice change from the sweet stuff too.

Personally, I use dates and bananas mostly nowadays. I'll add the babybels to my back pocket as well.

Protein is good during a long ride (I prefer keeping to the 4:1 ratio), but cutting carbs strikes me as fool-hardy for endurance. I was vegan all of last season and ate a 90% carb based diet and had no performance issues. In fact I always felt really fresh after long rides.

rayjay

dw300 wrote:

rayjay wrote:

KFC is nice and a good energy boost to start any ride or race.

Ice cream cone, stick a flake in if you are going up a hill, 2 flakes if it's a very long hill.

I tend to eat a big bag of chips on the way home so I don't bonk. If I am feeling really tired, I get a sausage in batter as well for that extra boost.

For recovery I usually drink half a bottle of Jack Daniels and a Cuban Cigar

LoL .. KFC and Ice Cream? Are you mad. You need to be having meat and 2 veg. I've got a a 90 degree Garmin mount for the bottom of a dinner plate keeps it on the bars just great. Keeping the peas and gravy out of your lap when someone attacks is difficult, but it's all about the real whole foods..

I can see now why the Garmin mount is so popular. That's a great development.
I'm sure it could be adapted for savoury snacks i.e. crisps ,cheesy wotsits.or even some naan bread.
Oakley have some new carbon glasses in development with a pea dispenser. so that issue looks like it will be sorted and attacking and eating peas at the same time will now be easy.
A little trick I do is fill my pockets up with pies. You don't want to bonk on that solo breakaway.

t4tomo

Cornish pasties are better than pies, more aero when they are in your jersey pocket - make sure it's the centre pocket and crimp facing out thou, otherwise the aero forces could throw you off line.

bisoner

Grill wrote:

bisoner wrote:

Guy I ride is a sports scientist for a footy team in London. He's a big fan of less carbs and more protein and fat to fuel those non-high intensity rides - infact his whole diet is around reducing carbs down to a bare minimum (training for an ironman). I was ribbing him with his babybels on a recent ride. Tried them last weekend and they seemed to work well enough. Make a nice change from the sweet stuff too.

Personally, I use dates and bananas mostly nowadays. I'll add the babybels to my back pocket as well.

Protein is good during a long ride (I prefer keeping to the 4:1 ratio), but cutting carbs strikes me as fool-hardy for endurance. I was vegan all of last season and ate a 90% carb based diet and had no performance issues. In fact I always felt really fresh after long rides.

I'll be honest, I'm as sceptical as you. However, it's not so much the protein but the fat and how our body breaks down and uses the fat - he explained to me that sitting on a sofa doing nothing we are better off eating fat rather than carbs. Alarmingly, for his breakfast before the ride he had two espresso's with cream - nothing else. I think he had around 2-4 babybels on the ride, nothing else that I saw anyway. He sat on the front for a large portion of the ride pulling us all along. Once the football season finishes he will ride with us on a more regular basis so I should be able to pad out my understanding a bit more - and test out his legs too!!

ozzzyosborn206

I never really have gels when training, sometimes i take one incase i am on the ropes but prefer to eat 'proper food' I have them in races as they are quicker and easier to take than food, although I do often have fig rolls in the jersey pocket in a race

Grill

bisoner wrote:

Grill wrote:

bisoner wrote:

Guy I ride is a sports scientist for a footy team in London. He's a big fan of less carbs and more protein and fat to fuel those non-high intensity rides - infact his whole diet is around reducing carbs down to a bare minimum (training for an ironman). I was ribbing him with his babybels on a recent ride. Tried them last weekend and they seemed to work well enough. Make a nice change from the sweet stuff too.

Personally, I use dates and bananas mostly nowadays. I'll add the babybels to my back pocket as well.

Protein is good during a long ride (I prefer keeping to the 4:1 ratio), but cutting carbs strikes me as fool-hardy for endurance. I was vegan all of last season and ate a 90% carb based diet and had no performance issues. In fact I always felt really fresh after long rides.

I'll be honest, I'm as sceptical as you. However, it's not so much the protein but the fat and how our body breaks down and uses the fat - he explained to me that sitting on a sofa doing nothing we are better off eating fat rather than carbs. Alarmingly, for his breakfast before the ride he had two espresso's with cream - nothing else. I think he had around 2-4 babybels on the ride, nothing else that I saw anyway. He sat on the front for a large portion of the ride pulling us all along. Once the football season finishes he will ride with us on a more regular basis so I should be able to pad out my understanding a bit more - and test out his legs too!!

I know many vegans, some of which are sedentary. None are fat. I grew up in the US so you can imagine how many lardasses I know who do nothing but eating fatty foods. If he's talking about processed and refined carbs, then fair enough, but other than that I would take it with a grain of salt. Perhaps he just has one of those amazing metabolisms, but I know what happens if I sit around eating bacon and cheese all day...

johncp

Low carb high fat is gaining support. Have a look at this blog for an athletes view http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-ketosis-dangerous

Grill

Faster on low fat than low carb :P
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/twin-doctors-experiment-low-fat-low-sugar-diets-article-1.1597066

I do find these sort of discussions a bit old as a balanced diet while cutting out processed foods is all anyone really needs.

mamba80

Grill wrote:

Faster on low fat than low carb :P
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/twin-doctors-experiment-low-fat-low-sugar-diets-article-1.1597066

I do find these sort of discussions a bit old as a balanced diet while cutting out processed foods is all anyone really needs.

yes just seen it on catch up, the using muscle for fuel in the low carb diet was worrying as was his insulin levels, border line diabetic after a month, the guy on sugar, seemed to regulate insulin far better.

As you and they said, its processed (fat/Sugar) foods that are the baddies, so no fig rolls or fruit filled flapjacks stick to the gels and glucose/fructose drinks ...healthier.

Fuzzyrex

Grill wrote:

Faster on low fat than low carb :P
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/twin-doctors-experiment-low-fat-low-sugar-diets-article-1.1597066

I do find these sort of discussions a bit old as a balanced diet while cutting out processed foods is all anyone really needs.

yeah I caught up with this earlier,interesting viewing

charlie_potatoes

Fuzzyrex wrote:

yeah I caught up with this earlier,interesting viewing

The program lost all credibility when they said Box Hill was steep

bahzob

Just watch this video series.

It's a great insight into what food/drink the Sky Team uses.

Bottom line is:
- Almost everything they eat/drink is just natural food prepared from fresh ingredients by a someone who knows his food. Apart from being good for endurance athletes their diet is also pretty much perfect in terms of general health and is pretty cheap to buy/quick to make too.
- While they use bars and gels during training rides they also use natural food like the good old banana and home-made stuff like rice cakes
- Their training load is hugely more than most everyone here which is why they need these bars/gels while we don't. If you are not training like a pro then really you don't need artificial extras, save, perhaps, for emergency use in competition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2c6CH5nJ_4

Tom Dean

Sport nutrition products are for convenience. That's all.

wallace_and_gromit

My choice depends on circumstances...

For long training rides and non-important sportives, I prefer home made flapjack, at least that made at home by Mrs W&G.

For the Marmotte, I've used High5 yohurt coated bars, simply as they are easier to transport than home made flapjack.

For long rides, I need something savoury like a cheese or wholegrain peanut butter wrap, as I can only take so much sweet stuff.

I generally go for electrolyte tabs in my bottles, again, as I can only take so much sweet stuff.

Club runs are sufficiently short to get by on a good breakfast, bananas and a flap jack before setting off, and a bottle of carb powders on the way round. I get dropped if I spend time trying to undo a flapjack wrapper whilst on the move, unfortunately.

I always try and keep a couple of gels in my saddlebag for emergencies.

Recovery sustenance of choice is a cornish pasty from my local butcher. An essential part of the "Diet of Champions" even for non-champions!

In general, a balanced diet with lots of fruit seems to work well. I do need a big pile of complex carbs the evening before any ride of substance. Although my "engine" is definitely not of the sportscar variety, it still needs fuelling.

apreading

I dont get this - these threads keep coming up and many people seem to suggest that these companies spend small fortunes developing something thats not as good as you can easily cook up in the kitchen in half an hour. I just dont buy that. In my opinion:

Can you train/perform with 'natural' food? Yes
Can you train/perform with 'scientifically produced' food? Yes
Is Sports nutrition more convenient? In some cases, Yes
Is Sports nutrition better for performance? Not necessarily
Is Real food better for performance? Not necessarily and there is a higher risk of eating the wrong stuff if not careful

As I see it, if you eat real food then you need to put more thought into what you are eating, sometimes put more effort into preparation and shelf life not so good. Both work well as fuel if managed properly - sports nutrition is maybe an expensive luxury where by spending more money you dont have to put so much thought/effort into things. Neither will work well if your diet off the bike is crap too.

Sports nutrition is just food, like any other but pakaged in an easier format some times and selected to contain the right stuff.

Maybe bananas are natural food but surely a flapjack made at home is no more natural than a clif bar or mule bar (both have been cooked from selected ingredients)?

NeXXus

Does anyone understand the difference between simple carbs and complex carbs?

Google is your friend

wallace_and_gromit

apreading wrote:

...surely a flapjack made at home is no more natural than a clif bar or mule bar (both have been cooked from selected ingredients)?

The sports bar manufacturers are looking to make a profit, so will tend to use cheaper ingredients and adjust their recipies to assist their bars in maintaining shape and shelf-life. When you make your stuff at home, you can experiment with ingredients, in particular reducing the sugar and fat content and not adding preservatives, solifiers and emulsifiers etc.

Think of ready meals vs home-cooked food. There's a trade off between convenience, price and quality in pretty much everything in life.

dw300

This thread is like a Vauxhall Corsa 1.1 Owner's Club discussing running their cars on Super Unleaded.

Also, it's about convenience and suitability. If you're gona bonk because you've moved up a group in the club run and are 30 miles from home, you're gona want a few gels. Organic oats rolled on the thighs of virgin farmers daughters are just not going to cut it in that situation.

And if you are eating Clif bars or gels off the bike instead of brown rice with your grilled chicken, then you are just a bit dim.

wallace_and_gromit

dw300 wrote:

This thread is like a Vauxhall Corsa 1.1 Owner's Club discussing running their cars on Super Unleaded.

I find that grossly offensive. After my autumn and winter training campaign I am at least the equivalent of a Corsa 1.3.

mamba80

dw300 wrote:

This thread is like a Vauxhall Corsa 1.1 Owner's Club discussing running their cars on Super Unleaded.

Also, it's about convenience and suitability. If you're gona bonk because you've moved up a group in the club run and are 30 miles from home, you're gona want a few gels. Organic oats rolled on the thighs of virgin farmers daughters are just not going to cut it in that situation.

And if you are eating Clif bars or gels off the bike instead of brown rice with your grilled chicken, then you are just a bit dim.

but this is the only point isn't it? a lot of people use gels etc as a shortcut for decent eating habits on the bike and proper training.