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Running is just awful...

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  • Lungs mostly and yes I did do the same after a couple of minutes walking. My right leg is aching a bit now!
  • A lot of top athletes run in very cheap shoes. It's really down to what suits you.

    If we are talking top athletes I don't think the cost of their trainers means much to them as they are probably paid to wear them.

    A very good pair of running trainers costs around £70-£80 (or less in the frequent sales). By very good I would mean suitable for racing and training whilst being able to last at least a couple hundred of miles. I would consider this cheap when compared to cross trainers/fashion trainers etc that retail for well over £100 in stores such as JD sports.

    In regards to club runners, it's very much like cycle clubs, you'll get the characters who are willing to invest big money in certain brands and materials as well as the old timers who swear by their £5 plimsolls whilst running with only a bottle of water and some grass as fuel.

    It's really down to what suits you - Spot on, I always get my running shoes from a proper sports store (Pilch in Norwich and then Sweatshop in Southampton) where they take the time to work out what is best for you. Bit like a good LBS.

    I'll admit running can be awful, I was under prepared for a recent half marathon and the photo taken as I cross the finish line looks like a man close to breaking. Other races I've breezed through with a cracking time. However, from running I get a certain relaxation that I just don't get from road riding anymore. After a tough day at work it really helps me sort my head and zone out. Road riding where I live (whilst by no means being as hectic as London) now takes a certain level of concentration (rogue drivers, alwful roads and cycle paths, pedestrians stepping out in front of me) that isn't required in running.
  • ai_1ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Lungs mostly and yes I did do the same after a couple of minutes walking. My right leg is aching a bit now!
    Give it a day or two, do a little stretching and if the leg is okay give it another go.
  • ai_1ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    A lot of top athletes run in very cheap shoes. It's really down to what suits you.

    If we are talking top athletes I don't think the cost of their trainers means much to them as they are probably paid to wear them.
    That's my point. They run in cheap trainers even though they could run in the pricier ones if they wanted for no extra cost to themselves. I presume they're paid for running in the brand, not the specific shoe. I'd be amazed if they ran in something they thought was uncomfortable, going to harm their performance or likely to increase risk of injury regardless of sponsorship.
    As you said elsewhere in your post, the higher priced stuff is more associated with the fashion side of it.
  • Mikey23Mikey23 Posts: 5,028
    Best 10k 38 minutes, 10 miles 64 minutes, half marathon 1.29, full marathon 3.20. When you are fit and in balance it's just an awesome feeling to be powering along. Nothing quite like it...
  • ai_1 wrote:
    I tried proper running, as opposed to jogging - got 0.18 miles :(
    Nothing wrong with that as long as you didn't end up injured. What stopped you going further? Legs or lungs?
    When you start running it can recruit muscles that don't usually do much so they're not very efficient = higher heart rate and more laboured breathing than you expect. Could you do similar again after a couple of minutes walking?
    If so you're similar to me when I started. I'd run about 800m of 2km in probably 3 segments of 250m-300m and walk in between. After a few weeks I was running non-stop. (0.18miles = 288m approx)

    Most importantly, has running helped your cycling at all?
  • ai_1ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Not sure. My cycling has improved in the same period but probably would have done so anyway. As I said earlier in the thread, I think running complements cycling in terms of all round health and fitness but whether it's a tool for improving cycling performance specifically is debatable. I cycle to enjoy it. Getting better is part of that. Now the same goes for running. I've two sports I enjoy instead of the one I had before. Even if they were detrimental to each other, which I doubt, I wouldn't give either up in exchange for minor gains in the other.
  • Mikey23 wrote:
    Best 10k 38 minutes, 10 miles 64 minutes, half marathon 1.29, full marathon 3.20. When you are fit and in balance it's just an awesome feeling to be powering along. Nothing quite like it...

    That's pretty damn good!

    When I was doing tri's (dirty word!) I could do a 19min 5k if I busted a gut, but that was pretty much my limit. 10k, no way. I'll stick to pedalling....!
  • verylonglegsverylonglegs Posts: 3,422
    Mikey23 wrote:
    Best 10k 38 minutes, 10 miles 64 minutes, half marathon 1.29, full marathon 3.20. When you are fit and in balance it's just an awesome feeling to be powering along. Nothing quite like it...

    I have to agree, I don't do it anymore due to an ankle problem from my football days and too many niggly muscle injuries but after hanging up my boots I had a few years of cross-country, couldn't stand the idea of road running, and it was great, in fact this thread makes me realise how much I enjoyed it. Something rather pure and raw just absolutely turning yourself inside out with effort in a 10k race through snow covered woodland, a sensation I've not equalled on the bike but then maybe I treat them as different types of exercise.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    crescent wrote:
    I've tried running and hate it. I also notice that when I see a runner out and about they look utterly miserable but when I see a cyclist they look like they're enjoying themselves.

    Running is just very different.

    Its more about how you feel afterwards than during, whereas cycling is more about the doing.

    The nearest I have got to running when cycling is doing 10 mile time trials, and trust me, I do not look like I am enjoying myself when doing those!

    You should have persevered and got past the 'I hate this' stage. You need to start off running a mile and then add to it slowly.
    It gets better and then you enjoy it. A bit like going up long steep hills on a bike. Actually thats another cycling thing thats like running.

    I hope we get some snow this year, as running out in the snow with no cars or people around and everything covered in fresh undisturbed snow is one of my favourite things of the year.
  • Mikey23Mikey23 Posts: 5,028
    @bb &vll... That was a few years ago, I ain't that quick now!
    What I miss most is the cameraderie. Down here in cornwall we have an amazing Grand Prix road series and cross country scene. And excellent races in Devon and further afield. Basically however rubbish you if you can run at all you can turn up, sign in and compete with the top runners while plodding round if you want to. And you can do that week after week and compete for your club and against your peers. With cycling you have to have a pretty high level of skill and ability to even take part and it seems to me you would have to be a little bit crazy to compete. And finding someone to trundle round with who doesn't want to turn every ride into a competitive strava fest is pretty difficult
  • One of the best running races is the Park Run series. They take place all across the country (in fact all around the World) always at 9am on a Saturday. They are only 5km, but they attract all types of runners from first timers through to top amateurs. The best bit is that they are always free, you just have to register and print off you barcode which acts as your timing chip. You get to meet all sorts of friendly people and nobody cares if you are the best or the worst, just that you take part.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    Trail running is quite good too.

    Running also means you can do a duathlon (run/cycle/run) which is great for anyone who is more of a cyclist.
    I did a trail run, road cycle one and it was the best event (until Ride London) I had ever done.

    It was great having lots of runners over taking me just before the transition (why they were faster runners than me then, but had not been for the first five and three quarter miles is a mystery) , and then whiz past all of them and others in front of me when I got on the bike was priceless :D
  • Carbonator wrote:
    Trail running is quite good too.

    I agree, and in respect of the OP's move back to HK, especially so there. The trails in HK are extremely accessible, and take you to the very best scenery there. Some parts of the MacLehose trail in Sai Kung Country park take you to simply stunning deserted beaches, the Hong Kong Trail takes you over the very best parts of Hong Kong island, and the Lantau Trail takes you over some of the better parts of that island. These trails take you well away from traffic.

    By contrast, road cycling in HK has very real drawbacks. Even the quieter roads in HK are getting busier, and I rarely got back from a ride without a black face from bus exhausts slogging up the hills there. Goodness knows what it left in my lungs.
  • ai_1ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Trail running is my favourite. I think it's the best health benefit too as your core is constantly engaged by running on uneven ground and you're less likely to suffer from any repetitive motion injuries - although I suppose there's the small risk of a sprained ankle...
  • pottsstevepottssteve Posts: 4,033
    I didn't realise that there were so many closet runners on the forum. Running seems to be a bit of a Marmite moment - love it or hate it....

    Went out again last night and, following advice from this site just did 2km. I found a local 400m running track that is cushioned, which will help the ageing joints I guess. That was the third time out and it was easier - no real aching today. I will stick at it to keep ticking over but I will never like it. That said, there's some great sights watching the local Chinese wandering around in a bizarre collection of sportswear, listening to little radios (no headphones) or trying to text while they jog at glacial speed.

    Back out again tomorrow - Chinese New Year.

    Steve
    Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    Trail shoes are cool too :D
  • jordan_217jordan_217 Posts: 2,580
    Carbonator wrote:
    Trail shoes are cool too :D

    Trail running, especially this time of year, is ace. If you're inclined to, you can actually pick the muddiest line to run through. Getting muddy is fun! Though it's not big or clever but enough about dyslexic dwarves.
    “Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”
  • lakesludditelakesluddite Posts: 1,314
    I find that leaving the running for a couple of weeks means I feel a bit of hip pain when getting back to it, but doing it more regularly means that my body becomes used to it, and there is no real pain. Seven or eight days seems to be the most I can leave it for and not be too bad. It's finding the time for me - if I'm not out on the bike, then I'm at Karate training, or I'm in the swimming pool, or down the gym (and a running machine just doesn't give the same feel as the road).

    Interesting hearing about the minimalist running shoes Ai_1 - I did look into this a while ago, but never summed up the will to start from scratch with a new running style. I suppose the only way to decide is to try it. It is that you now land on the ball of your foot, as opposed to the heel as you would in 'normal' trainers? I guess this is better for the joints as you get the flex from the heel acting as a natural shock absorber.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    Forefoot running makes a lot of sense in principle but think I will stick to cushioned/neutral shoes now.

    Read something recently about a study blah blah discounting it.
    Probably a load of bull but it made me feel better about how I run :-)
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,110
    One of the best running races is the Park Run series. They take place all across the country (in fact all around the World) always at 9am on a Saturday. They are only 5km, but they attract all types of runners from first timers through to top amateurs. The best bit is that they are always free, you just have to register and print off you barcode which acts as your timing chip. You get to meet all sorts of friendly people and nobody cares if you are the best or the worst, just that you take part.
    +1 for parkrun - it's actually got me back into running did the first time in years, I go along with Bompette who at 13 is regularly the first female finisher, I'm usually about four minutes slower! Our local one is in a country park just outside Dundee, is mostly off road (+1 for trail running too) and very hilly, all in all better than pounding flat pavements.

    Really, cycling is great; running is great; swimming, gymnastics, handball and ultimate frisbee are all great - we all have different preferences and every sport has different demands, but the important thing is the getting off the couch, all else is detail.
  • mpattsmpatts Posts: 889
    bompington wrote:
    One of the best running races is the Park Run series. They take place all across the country (in fact all around the World) always at 9am on a Saturday. They are only 5km, but they attract all types of runners from first timers through to top amateurs. The best bit is that they are always free, you just have to register and print off you barcode which acts as your timing chip. You get to meet all sorts of friendly people and nobody cares if you are the best or the worst, just that you take part.
    +1 for parkrun - it's actually got me back into running did the first time in years, I go along with Bompette who at 13 is regularly the first female finisher, I'm usually about four minutes slower! Our local one is in a country park just outside Dundee, is mostly off road (+1 for trail running too) and very hilly, all in all better than pounding flat pavements.

    Really, cycling is great; running is great; swimming, gymnastics, handball and ultimate frisbee are all great - we all have different preferences and every sport has different demands, but the important thing is the getting off the couch, all else is detail.


    +2 for parkrun. Amazing fun.
    Insert bike here:
  • ai_1ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    ...Interesting hearing about the minimalist running shoes Ai_1 - I did look into this a while ago, but never summed up the will to start from scratch with a new running style. I suppose the only way to decide is to try it. It is that you now land on the ball of your foot, as opposed to the heel as you would in 'normal' trainers? I guess this is better for the joints as you get the flex from the heel acting as a natural shock absorber.
    Typically you want to land mid-foot rather than on the ball of the foot but I think if it feels right it's probably right. That's one of the biggest benefits of reduced or non-existent cushioning. If you land badly you'll feel it and correct it because otherwise you'll be uncomfortable.
    There are two main characteristics of "minimalist" running shoes. First, they have little or no cushioning. Second, they have no significant rise from the toe to the heel. The Merrell Trail Gloves I use have the toe and heel at the same height whereas many conventional running shoes position the heel about 12mm above the toe. I find it impossible to run comfortably with these high heels now that I've gotten used to running without them - I don't miss them either.
    When I started using the minimalist running shoes I found loads of advice and claims but I think the following 4 things are possibly all you really need to know:
    1. Don't worry too much about putting your foot down or pushing off - just concentrate on lifting your feet. This sounded odd to me until I tried it but was possibly the single most useful thing I'd read. Just concentrate on plucking your feet off the ground behind you. You're not trying to run faster, just getting your feet off the ground once they're behind you. This changes a couple of things without you having to think about them individually - it stops you overstriding so your foot lands beneath you not ahead of you meaning you're more efficient and less likely to heelstrike. Also your cadence naturally increases. Don't bother measuring your cadence initially but as a ballpark figure, you probably want your cadence to be about 180 footfalls per minute or higher. This can feel too fast and a bit silly for the first few minutes but I got used to it after just one or two runs and now I automatically settle at 188 when I'm cruising and get up to 200 when I'm pushing the pace a bit.

    2. Don't rush it. If you're new to running, start with short distances of just a few hundred meters. If you're already a runner, only use the minimalist shoes for a brief period at the start or end of your running session and do the rest of your mileage on normal shoes until you adapt. Limit yourself to about 400m in the minimalist shoes for the first week and gradually increase it. 400m might seem ridiculously short but better safe than sorry. If you overdo it you probably wont know it until the next day. Keep it short and see how your achilles, calves and feet feel.

    3. Walk around your house in bare feet or wear minimalist shoes when out walking to strengthen your lower legs and feet. (I find it easier to run barefoot than walk barefoot but I think the walking has helped my feet adapt quicker)

    Incidentally the higher cadence is a big part of reducing the loads on your joints. Higher cadence means more but smaller impacts and it also means you move less vertically between strides which I think helps too.
  • CHRISNOIRCHRISNOIR Posts: 1,400
    Nice to have a diversion talking about trail running - I really fancy giving it a go. Often see trail runners while I'm walking in the Lakes and it looks like great fun. Bloody hard work, but great fun.
  • Problem with running is it is not forgiving at all. Have a poor technique or a lazy style you will get injured. That's the problem start to get knackered technique goes outta the window in cycling it doesnt matter.

    Both are different lets face it.

    Running at a fast pace is hard.
    Cycling at a fast pace is hard.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    Running at a slow pace is hard.
    Cycling at a slow pace is............... bloody easy.
  • I ran for a while after signing up for the Great North Run but found the pain both during and after running to be unbearable.

    I had ITBS and my knees were in pieces. I'd be in agony during a run and then be hobbling around for 2 to 3 days after.

    I did the GNR and then tried to keep up the running for a couple of months afterwards, but lost interest as the pain significantly outweighed the gain.

    Cycling is challenging and I like to push myself, but I can do it without leaving my body feeling battered.
  • ai_1ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    There's adaptation pain and there's injury pain. If you have injury pain there's no good reason not to call a halt. It's neither fun nor healthy. Not always easy to tell the difference. Initially I rested when I didn't need to and vice versa but I think I'm getting to know my body better now. That goes for both cycling and running
  • ...And people do far far too much too quickly.

    Its taken me 20 years to be able to 'just' pop out for a run without really thinking about it.

    If its taken me 20 years to get to this point there is now way you can be up to knocking out 10 mile runs without having built up the mileage slowly imo you should be looking at 0 - 10 miles in about 12 months averaging about 1 mile a month increase and doing that every 2-3 days at least or 3 times a week.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    People definitely do too much too soon.

    Mile a month sounds a good yardstick actually. especially up to say a first 10k.

    Being able to pop out for a quick run is important from pretty much day 1 though. Thats one of the beauties of running. Just don't overdo the distance.
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