Depression and Doping

rick_chasey

Oh you lot are so serious. If that article "causes harm" I'm the pope.

It's on a blog for a newspaper - and it's not that out on a limb - death of pantani I draws similar lines to almost universal acclaim.

Yellow Peril

Well it inspired me to join Twitter...how long before I become famous?

Macaloon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Oh you lot are so serious. If that article "causes harm" I'm the pope.

It's on a blog for a newspaper - and it's not that out on a limb - death of pantani I draws similar lines to almost universal acclaim.

Let me take this opportunity to apologise for all the previous times I've failed to acknowledge your wise words and prudential inaction.

iainf72

I think the problems at a) the article is guff and b) it's written by someone who puts a lot of cycling fans back up. Combine the 2 and you get outrage, especially as its about a sensitive subject.

I look forward to the follow up piece featuring Ocana and Claveyrolat (please no)

ocdupalais

jerry3571 wrote:

I didn't know Prozac was on the list of substances in use and also about the old top pro, from years ago, who hung himself. As long as I learn then I'm happy. Comments, on here, about this article, hasn't increased my learning.
(must admit I'm not keen on the posts saying "The article is cr@p because it's cr@p". These responses don't do much for anything) can we have more more counter arguments and facts please?

- Opening paragraph: "Lourdes-Hautacam, which at 1,560m is one of the highest paved roads in Europe…"
No it's not; it's not even in the top 100

- "When he made his attack, it was with indecent ease " - No it wasn't: in every picture/bit of footage I've ever seen of this he looks like he's trying very hard.

- "He set a power record for an effort in excess of 30 minutes on a climb, peaking at 526 watts. Only Alberto Contador has ever knocked out more watts on a climb". Utter conjecture stated as fact; followed by yet more conjecture and a cheap shot.

- "Riis had taken advice from his old team-mate Fignon" - the author then doesn't tell the reader what this advice was.

That's just the first few paragraphs...There are so many more errors, inconsistencies and pieces of poor journalism that I got bored first time around and only read it fully when some people here said they enjoyed it.

Errors and duff writing aside, my main issue with the central premise is this: -
There must have been tens of thousands of pro cyclists over the years; if there's such a strong correlation between professional cycling and depression (further exacerbated by all the doping that all the pro's since 1903 have apparently been up to their eyeballs with), why could most cycling fans probably only come up with the same list of sufferers as her?


I got the impression that the author hoped that by simply mentioning cycling, drugs and doping - along with some of the symptoms of depression - in the same paragraph, then this would somehow validate her specious assertions.

I've got a paragraph for her:
Fallacious, incorrect and half-baked.

ddraver

OCDuPalais wrote:

I got the impression that the author hoped that by simply mentioning cycling, drugs and doping - along with some of the symptoms of depression - in the same paragraph, then this would somehow validate her specious assertions.

I say this with genuine seriousness but the author has been doing exactly that for several years now and it has been working. Why would she think it would stop now?

Lanterne_Rogue

Rick Chasey wrote:

Oh you lot are so serious. If that article "causes harm" I'm the pope.

It's on a blog for a newspaper - and it's not that out on a limb - death of pantani I draws similar lines to almost universal acclaim.

Makes a sort of sense, this, because to judge by some of his comments about atheists recently I'm not entirely convinced that the Pope is the Pope - you should probably send the Vatican a CV...

I don't think anyone's going to be tipped off down a slope of depressive illness by this article though, and I'm always interested to read interesting hypotheses, even if they're wildly wrong. Interesting doesn't automatically equal correct though (outside of the Hollywood doctrine that demands the correctness of a scientific idea is in inverse proportion to the number of people espousing it).

mr_poll

Rick Chasey wrote:

Oh you lot are so serious. If that article "causes harm" I'm the pope.

It's on a blog for a newspaper - and it's not that out on a limb - death of pantani I draws similar lines to almost universal acclaim.

Saying it causes harm may be a little far fetched however here is a link to the excellent Ben Goldacre, who also writes for the Guardian. The article covers the annual report that the third Monday of Jan is the most depressing of the year - it was a story pedalled by a holiday company, which then grew legs was reported by the Media as fact and now is used by mental health organisations - and turns out when you look at facts to be rubbish.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/24/bad-science-winter-blues

Yellow Peril

mr_poll wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Oh you lot are so serious. If that article "causes harm" I'm the pope.

It's on a blog for a newspaper - and it's not that out on a limb - death of pantani I draws similar lines to almost universal acclaim.

Saying it causes harm may be a little far fetched however here is a link to the excellent Ben Goldacre, who also writes for the Guardian. The article covers the annual report that the third Monday of Jan is the most depressing of the year - it was a story pedalled by a holiday company, which then grew legs was reported by the Media as fact and now is used by mental health organisations - and turns out when you look at facts to be rubbish.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/24/bad-science-winter-blues

Good link Mr Poll. It is amazing how quickly these things grow legs and get regurgitated as facts. Perhaps in a couple of years time some of the forum's own doping zealots will be quoting the Festinagirl article as gospel to support their particular agenda of the time.

mike6

Yellow Peril wrote:

mr_poll wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Oh you lot are so serious. If that article "causes harm" I'm the pope.

It's on a blog for a newspaper - and it's not that out on a limb - death of pantani I draws similar lines to almost universal acclaim.

Saying it causes harm may be a little far fetched however here is a link to the excellent Ben Goldacre, who also writes for the Guardian. The article covers the annual report that the third Monday of Jan is the most depressing of the year - it was a story pedalled by a holiday company, which then grew legs was reported by the Media as fact and now is used by mental health organisations - and turns out when you look at facts to be rubbish.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/24/bad-science-winter-blues

Good link Mr Poll. It is amazing how quickly these things grow legs and get regurgitated as facts. Perhaps in a couple of years time some of the forum's own doping zealots will be quoting the Festinagirl article as gospel to support their particular agenda of the time.

Quite agree. "Driest is fastest" is probably a glaring piece of so called truth or wisdom that springs to mind. Even before the internet. Perhaps Tom Simpson would still be alive if he had not bought into that little gem.