MRI of prolapsed disc.

josehernandez

This post is a continuation of my previous "Lower back / hip pain thread" thread.

The MRI below illustrates my problem. Next stop Neuro Consultant to discuss the pros and cons of surgery.
I'm interested to hear other peoples thoughts that have had a similar injury and been here before me.

sungod

how did you get a burger lodged up there?

/soz, get well soon

littledove44

Been there, done that, had the surgery.

6 month recovery.

Definitely worth it, but take the recovery very seriously. You need to end up with a much stronger back than before.

josehernandez

The pain is decreasing all the time and I am fine taking just 1 - 2 50mg Tramadol a day. To be honest I don't feel any pain unless I walk too far or do certain exercises.
To re build my fitness I have been doing 50 laps up and down the stairs ( I live in a semi btw ). Afterwards I feel fine although I'm really quite surprised just how tiring scaling the stairway 50 times is. Before I started I thought 100 would be easy.
Also doing some core strengthening exercises from Tom Danielsons book - Core advantage which is working great. Definitely feel stronger. My posture has improved greatly particularly when I'm sitting at the PC.

Haven't seen Consultant yet but given the above info I'm in a bit of a dilemma whether to proceed with surgery (if advised) or give it more time.
Still hoping for feedback on how my injury compares to others who have been in the same situation.

ck101

Was told I needed that operation 20 years ago after nearly exactly the same thing. I have a prolapsed disc and this manifests as Sciatica in the left leg into my foot and big toe.

After hearing stories of back ops making things worse I slugged it out for 3 or 4 years dealing with bad sciatica and periodic severe pain. Things did settle with time.

We had three children over 5 years (from 2006) and I was constantly putting my back out lifting them. I was unfit, overweight and losing a weekend a month when I had to take to the bed the back pain was so bad. I was on pain killers a lot and seriously considering the operation again.

I took up cycling three years lost three stone ago and the condition has adpbated to the point that I haven't had pain in two years. I visited a neurologist last summer and he said that if there no pain no need to operate.

If I was you I'd give it some time, strengthen the core and take it easy with the cycling for a while.

ilovegrace

I have (as mentioned in your last post) prolapsed /herniated disc for 20 years (I am now 52) .
Under no circumstances at this stage should you undergo surgery, once it is done it can not be undone.
You need to address the issue of why you have ended up with this condition,poor posture , weak core etc .
Even after an operation unless find the you the root cause the problem will still be there.
I will emphasise again , read http://www.amazon.co.uk/Treat-Your-Back ... wn+back%27 and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Treat-Your-Back ... wn+back%27, you owe it to yourself to find out as much as you can ( without relying on the rubbish on the internet) to make your own informed decision.
regards
ILG

Apis135

I ruptured a disc in my late 20's playing squash. For the following 8 or so years I had intermittent agonising relapses, and got fatter, which exacerbated the issue, along with lifting go kids up. Regular time off work and finally a visit to the surgeon. Although surgery was a possibility it has risks, and may result in issues as pressure is loaded to other discs. In the end 2 to 3 sessions of front crawl (which I had to learn) a week has given me nearly three years without issue. I've been able to start cycling to further reduce my weight. My MRI showed similar issues, and discussions with a surgeon is useful. It's a big operation and although those who have been treated successfully rave about the benefits, it may be worth considering alternatives. Best wishes either way for a speedy recovery.

overlord2

Please try EVERYTHING before surgery. I had a disc bulge 10 years ago and thought the world for me was over. Find a good physiotherapist who is supportive and you'll get there albeit slowly, painfully, and costly. I spent about £3000 over 5 years in physio but it worked and I am just so glad that I never went down the surgery route. Life isn't pain free but it is managable. You need to know your limits and not do any 'odd' back movements but once it becomes a habit and you get used to telling people to sod off who think you are a wimp because you wont lift anything heavy its easy.

Worse thing about back problems is the feeling you are suffering in silence - its pretty awful. And I think its the only time i've ever seriously though about ending it.

josehernandez

ilovegrace wrote:

I will emphasise again , read http://www.amazon.co.uk/Treat-Your-Back ... wn+back%27 and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Treat-Your-Back ... wn+back%27,

I have read that book or should I say pamphlet. My wife is a physio and I believe "Treat your own back" is recommended reading by the NHS for those with back issues. It is very good if very concise.

No one has yet offered their view on how bad they think the prolapse is from looking at my MRI. I would be interested to know how it compares to others.

mulletmaster

Totally impossible to say without seeing the axial images at that level (as if you were sliced the different way)
It's not the biggest as I've seen but it's pretty sizeable (insert smutty joke here) but if it's smack in the centre might not be impinging on your nerve roots too much, alternatively it could be off centred and putting a lot of pressure on one side or the other or both, as above impossible to say from one slice in one plane.

top_bhoy

I want to avoid the 'mine is bigger than yours' game but I had a CT scan and it showed one moderate and one minor bulging disc....Its on a CD so I'll try and dig it out in the next few days and see how it compares with your MRI.

My doctor has strongly advised to avoid back surgery at this stage, eat healthily and sensibly and to avoid twisting while carrying any sort of weight; move the feet to turn not the torso. The physio I've engaged has advised doing clinical pilates (Google clinical pilates) for the rehabilitation and prevention of muscloskeletal injury. Under the guidance of a physio, I use a piece of equipment called a reformer.

I was sceptical at first because it didn't appear to be difficult but to maintain correct posture and form on the machine with the resistance springs isn't as easy as it looks. Six weeks on from my first class, I think it is helping me because I can see a change in my posture and the pain isn't debilitating, more a sensitivity in the buttock area. However, the jury is still out to an extent because it isn't a short-term fix and the changes are very subtle hence I'm looking for longer term changes.

The equipment isn't cheap hence the class under the guidance of a physio isn't cheap either but overall, despite my initial negativity, I'm pleased with the progress. Maybe in a few months I'll give a more in-depth opinion on this rehabilitation method if anyone is interested. Has anyone else experience of using the reformer equipment?

One other point to highlight, the physio stressed about how critical it is to lose weight for minimising the downward pressure on the spine. I'm losing the weight I had put on during an enforced 15 months period following a bad elbow break and a shoulder injury as a consequence to the break. A daily 20km cycle commute is helping.

When you are younger you tend to ignore such matters;thirty years later it creeps up on you and you wish you had listened to your mother. :P

Good luck with the recovery. Literally, those who have suffered similar to yourself, feel your pain!!

wallace_and_gromit

Jose - Good luck with your recovery, which ever route you take.

I ruptured the disk between the L4/L5 vertebrae around 8 years ago. Surgery was suggested as an option, but I was advised by numerous medical types to go for the "do exercises to strengthen the core and modify movements to reduce the risk of a relapse" as a first step, with surgery as a last resort, given its risks. (These sounded horrible to me, but maybe I am a wimp!)

I took half the advice (core strengthening) which was good, but resumed rowing a few months later, which had caused the injury and had a relapse 2 years later. This time I took the advice in full, ditching rowing for good and touch wood, bar seizures in the back when I overdo things on the bike, I've been OK since.

I was tempted by surgery, as it offered the only route back into rowing, but on balance, the risks didn't seem worth.

josehernandez

Top_Bhoy wrote:

Its on a CD so I'll try and dig it out in the next few days and see how it compares with your MRI.

I would be very interested to see that.

itboffin

I've had a disc bulge on the C6 vertebra with a trapped nerve in my left arm since the end of July 13, in fact the neck pain is nothing compared to the pain and numbness in my arm and hand, sleeping has been a nightmare from the start because I can't lie flat on my front or side without extreme pain.

I've been on codeine and gabapentin up to 8 times a day just to take the edge off it, i'm about 1-2 weeks from having the disc replaced, it totally sucks being so damn weak, even lifting something light or moving my head to quickly feels like an electric shock.

That said it hasn't stopped me doing 1-2 hour turbo sessions 5 times a week as part of my Liege Bastogne Liege 2014 training :roll:

Everyone needs a goal

cookiemonster

As another perspective, around six years ago I had a prolapsed L4/5. I initially opted for the conservative approach, but over the course of three or four months despite ongoing physio my condition deteriorated to the point that it was badly affecting my sleep, work and life.

I opted for surgery despite most advice of the online variety being to continue with the conservative approach. My understanding was that the actual procedure is, relative to surgery generally, low risk and with a high success rate. It seemed that the major risk was that if changes were not made to lifestyle or underlying problems then the issue could reoccur.

I woke up pain free (after months of severe pain) and was walking freely for the first time in months within an hour. I took about six weeks to recover from the wound, which was trivial compared to the disc problem. I then tried everything I could think of to ensure that it stayed fixed - the one thing that made a big difference to me was alexander technique, with pilates, yoga and swimming all useful. Six months after the op I did a four week trip cycling through the Himalayas, followed by some big European trips. Six years later and my back, touch wood, is in better shape than its ever been.

For me, if I could go back, I would have opted for surgery earlier, rather than waiting until my condition deteriorated as that was a very unpleasant time.

Clearly we're all different, I know nothing of individual circumstances and not all prolapse discs are equal (I believe upper back problems carry much higher risks with surgery than lower for example); however I'd say that if a number of months have gone by with minimal improvement and your quality of life is being affected, then surgery is worth considering.

Jon

josehernandez

That's very interesting cookiemonster, many thanks for sharing your experience.
It's quite difficult to decide as obviously people tend to be pro their particular choice.
The feedback I have received so far has been invaluable.

itboffin

My advice would be listen too your body and your doctor then get a second opinion because at the end of the day any surgery has risks but long term pain and medication isn't a solution.

compare it to riding your bike one day and the chain breaks, you take a link out cut the ride short and ride home, do you live with that mitigation or fix the problem?

8)

caledonian1

A little different but i had a degenerative disk that effectively disappeared over time....was about 1mm when showed up on MRI (pity it took a year of pain and discomfort to find out what was wrong....saw physios, Osteopaths, Chiropractors, got x-rays, steroid injections and still no improvement at all.

Went from 2 marathons in 2005 and training all year in 2006 for an Ironman to someone who could took maybe 15-20 minutes every morning to put on socks (and didnt tie my laces until mid-morning ) Surgeon, on looking at MRI said that a fusion was the only option and that I would have a shortened spine and be stiff for the rest of my days.....I was mortified then he mentioned a younger colleague who had done one total disc replacement...went to see him (selection is strict here (not in USA) and you have to be fit and take care of your back...luckily I fitted the criteria and got the Operation a couple of months later. They enter from your stomach and insert a chromium alloy disc with polyethelyne centre. Took around a couple of months to walk normally and get back into sport slowly.......however, a few months later it was just sensational....incredible improvement with no pain or discomfort whatsoever....its been 100%. a further knee injury stopped me running but I have since cycled LEJOG (6.5 days) and Etape du Tour in the Pyrenees in 2012 and La Marmotte....knee seems to have improved and I put that down to the cycling...so now started training for Ironman later this year. I am very lucky.....maybe the right surgeon, maybe just the right operation for me (Charite disc replacement) but it has changed my life for the better

Hope you are as fortunate as me....whatever you decide

top_bhoy

caledonian1 wrote:

A little different but i had a degenerative disk that effectively disappeared over time....was about 1mm when showed up on MRI (pity it took a year of pain and discomfort to find out what was wrong....saw physios, Osteopaths, Chiropractors, got x-rays, steroid injections and still no improvement at all.

Went from 2 marathons in 2005 and training all year in 2006 for an Ironman to someone who could took maybe 15-20 minutes every morning to put on socks (and didnt tie my laces until mid-morning ) Surgeon, on looking at MRI said that a fusion was the only option and that I would have a shortened spine and be stiff for the rest of my days.....I was mortified then he mentioned a younger colleague who had done one total disc replacement...went to see him (selection is strict here (not in USA) and you have to be fit and take care of your back...luckily I fitted the criteria and got the Operation a couple of months later. They enter from your stomach and insert a chromium alloy disc with polyethelyne centre. Took around a couple of months to walk normally and get back into sport slowly.......however, a few months later it was just sensational....incredible improvement with no pain or discomfort whatsoever....its been 100%. a further knee injury stopped me running but I have since cycled LEJOG (6.5 days) and Etape du Tour in the Pyrenees in 2012 and La Marmotte....knee seems to have improved and I put that down to the cycling...so now started training for Ironman later this year. I am very lucky.....maybe the right surgeon, maybe just the right operation for me (Charite disc replacement) but it has changed my life for the better

Hope you are as fortunate as me....whatever you decide

Good news indeed, sounds like you got a break by speaking to the right surgeon. I'm hoping to manage mine without the need for surgery but if the time comes that a decision needs to be made, this is a promising story. I'd also hope that if I ever do need surgery, techniques will have improved even further because it sounds as though your surgery is still in its infancy.

Your story about putting on socks is bringing back painful memories.

caledonian1

"Your story about putting on socks is bringing back painful memories. "

To you and me both....my solution was to put up a clothes pulley in my kitchen then each evening i would lower the pulley to a suitable level and lay out about 10 or so socks (all exactly the same) So when getting ready the next morning I would put my leg on the kitchen table then stretch to the pulley and take a sock...typically i would fail the first few times and it would fall to the floor...so rather than get on all fours and pick it up i would simply reach for another sock (picking them off the floor was very time consuming and that could wait until I got home from work) I followed this process until I got my operation and since then putting on socks is simple.....well this week has been difficult after my first metafit class in 5 weeks (but that is a good discomfort)

I wasnt really a cyclist (had a bike but hardly did anything other than the year prior to my injury) and my surgeon recommended cycling after i recovered from my back operation...a few months later i contacted him and sent pictures of me at Lands End and john O'Groats...he sent a very nice letter back stating that such stories made his work worthwhile and that He was glad that i had heeded his advice and exercised. I look forward to re-establishing contact if/when I complete Ironman (that will surprise him as he said forget running after my subsequent knee op...i seriously believe cycling has strengthened and sorted out my knee though)