What do you take on the Trail?

Kowalski675

Which flavour jam?

Angus Young

Post removed.

Kowalski675

Thanks, but I prefer my version. To be brutally honest, I don't like you're reworking at all - far too artificial looking and oversaturated for my tastes, and you've blown the highlights completely in the water, and lost most of the detail. To me it looks like one of those tacky backlit moving pictures you see on the walls of Indian takeaways. I make my adjustments for how they'll look in print, not on a backlit LCD monitor, and the 12x16 framed print of my version that's hanging on the wall opposite me looks how I want it

The thing I like most about it is the composition - Cotter Force is much photographed, and seen in many books, calendars etc, but I've never seen another pic of it from my angle (helped by the fact that most of the time you can't reach the vantage point that I took it from - it was mid summer and water levels were very low).

Angus Young

Kowalski675 wrote:

I make my adjustments for how they'll look in print, not on a backlit LCD monitor, and the 12x16 framed print of my version that's hanging on the wall opposite me looks how I want it

Most print designers would tweak your version to somewhere around my version after you'd delivered the file, or sit on your elbow and direct you towards more contrast. Your version would print incredibly flat on the printed page. Still a nice image, though.

Kowalski675

Angus Young wrote:

Your version would print incredibly flat on the printed page.

The print sitting on my wall opposite says different. Adjustments are a matter of personal preference - personally I think your version is way over-processed, artificial looking, over-saturated and the highlights are completely blown. You're entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that my version is better, and yours belongs on a curry house wall

Angus Young

Kowalski675 wrote:

Adjustments are a matter of personal preference...

As a creative director who's been commissioning photographers for print for the last 30 year, I beg to differ.

cooldad

I know plenty of people who are rubbish at their jobs.

Kowalski675

Angus Young wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

Adjustments are a matter of personal preference...

As a creative director who's been commissioning photographers for print for the last 30 year, I beg to differ.

Differ all you like, you're entitled to your opinion. I like my version, I don't like yours - adjustments are a matter of personal preference, and to say that they're not is ridiculous (look at HDR, for example - some people love it, I think that in 9 out of 10 cases it looks artificial and awful). I think mine's better, I think yours looks artificial and tacky. If you've been "commissioning photographers for print for the last 30 years" (for curry house walls, possibly, lol?) then you should be able to see that you've completely blown the highlights, for a start. I took the picture for me - It's my image, framed on my wall, and it matters not a bit to me whether anyone else likes it or not (although those that bought prints of it obviously did...).

For the record, to take someone's image and alter (note "alter", not improve) it and say "here's my take on your pic, see what you think of it" is one thing, but to take someone's image, alter it to your own tastes and say "this is my version, it's better than yours" is just rude...

Kowalski675

cooldad wrote:

I know plenty of people who are rubbish at their jobs.

russyh

Don't argue with kowalski he is never, ever wrong. If someone attempts to prove him wrong, he will post a comment about your mum. Then a picture of his beard, a picture of some polished shite off of a motorbike, then one of his cat. Or more likely he will lol you ;-)

Kowalski675

Big yawn. The point is that it's not a case of right or wrong - PP adjustments are a matter of personal taste, my opinion is that his version has none (although the blown highlights are fact, not opinion)... I took the picture for me - my opinion is that my version is better, therefore (since it was taken to please me, nobody else) my version is the right one - why would I want to hang a version that I like less (which wasn't even done by me) on my wall - if I want to hang superb pictures on my wall that are somebody else's work then I'll drop my old acquaintance Paul Prince an email and order some of his prints, rather than something from the wall of the local takeaway, thanks...

I am always right though, I'll give you that.

Angus Young

Kowalski675 wrote:

although the blown highlights are fact, not opinion

The 'blown highlight' thing - it's not a golden rule. It's just a rule of thumb that stops beginners getting into too much trouble. And I could point out why some things are not opinions and why some opinions are wrong... but you'd think i were being "rude" again. By the way, I wasn't suggesting you hang it on your wall in place of your version (which you're fully entitled to like better than mine). Just thought you might like to see what it looked like with a bit more 'life' to it. Sorry I bothered now.

Angus Young

cooldad wrote:

I know plenty of people who are rubbish at their jobs.

So do I. And I'm usually the one who has to fire them.

BigAl

Angus Young wrote:

cooldad wrote:

I know plenty of people who are rubbish at their jobs.

So do I. And I'm usually the one who has to fire them.

Nuff said. Be better and hire the right person

Kowalski675

Angus Young wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

although the blown highlights are fact, not opinion

The 'blown highlight' thing - it's not a golden rule.

I refer you to your previous post - you're contradicting yourself now. Blown highlights are blown highlights, and a fundamental error that I wouldn't expect someone who claims to have 30 years of expertise to be making...

Angus Young wrote:

Just thought you might like to see what it looked like with a bit more 'life' to it. Sorry I bothered now.

Maybe you should've done it a little more politely then You think your version has more "life", but that's your opinion, not fact - my opinion is that it just looks over processed, over saturated, over exposed and artificial. I have no problem receiving constructive criticism, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. For the record, two very good professional photographers both liked my version just fine though - if you can show me a portfolio as impressive as either of theirs then maybe I'll reconsider

BigAl

I thought this was a bike forum?

Angus Young

Kowalski675 wrote:

Maybe you should've done it a little more politely then...

On the other hand, maybe you should have taken it as a compliment that I thought the image worth tweaking...

CitizenLee

I like the original and altered version for different reasons, although I do think the rocks in the background look a bit too vibrant/over saturated on the edit. Could just be my screen though as I haven't calibrated it since I rebuilt my PC.

It is all down to taste though. Everyone's eye is different. I'm funny about my own work, never happy and only post a fraction of my photos on Flickr. I often get asked why I don't try and sell some, but I'm too self critical and only do it for fun. Having said that, you look on some photographers websites and think, you know what... I'm not doing that bad! Maybe I'll give it a go. Should I bother Angus?

Back on topic, my bag contains x2 multi tools, pump, patches, tube, zip ties, plasters, lighter, spare socks, Skully lights, chocolate or sweets, and a 3l water bladder.

Kowalski675

Angus Young wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

Maybe you should've done it a little more politely then...

On the other hand, maybe you should have taken it as a compliment that I thought the image worth tweaking...

No, a compliment would've been to say it was good as it is, not to take it and say "here's my version which is better than your inferior one"...

Kowalski675

CitizenLee wrote:

It is all down to taste though. Everyone's eye is different. I'm funny about my own work, never happy and only post a fraction of my photos on Flickr. I often get asked why I don't try and sell some, but I'm too self critical and only do it for fun. Having said that, you look on some photographers websites and think, you know what... I'm not doing that bad!

You're exactly the same as me then. Part of the reason I stopped taking pictures was that I was too self critical of the results. I'd look at my images compared to those from people like my old acquaintance Paul Prince or his mate Guy Edwardes and think "I'll never be as good as that", rather than taking on board the encouragement and compliments that he and another two very good professional photographer friends (one with decades of experience) were giving me, and thinking "hang on a minute, these may not be brilliant, but they're pretty damn good for a complete beginner". Like you, sometimes I'd look at supposed pros' work (either on websites or portraits that people had paid substantial money for) and think "those are pretty pants, some of my work is better than that"...

My trail bag contains 2 litre water bladder, pump, two spare tubes, punture repair kit, tyre levers, multi tool, chain tool, spare joining links, a gear cable, a rear mech hanger, pencil tyre pressure gauge, phone and some food / extra clothing layer if appropriate (and sometimes my old Nikon compact, lol...). My riding so far is all trail centres or local XC loops, so although I can be far from home I'm never that far from civilisation.

Angus Young

Kowalski675 wrote:

No, a compliment would've been to say it was good as it is...

Which I did. Twice.

Cookeh

Angus Young wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

Adjustments are a matter of personal preference...

As a creative director who's been commissioning photographers for print for the last 30 year, I beg to differ.

You were a designer yesterday, offering some chap advice - presumably gained from another 30 years of experience - on how to not get bogged down by retorts.

Have you discovered time travel? Care to share? I've done some silly things in the past I wouldn't mind rectifying...

Angus Young

CitizenLee wrote:

Should I bother Angus?

By being firm with your selection process and careful with your presentation you could put together a nice landscape portfolio. Unfortunately though, what you're ups against then is that there are about a zillion competent landscape photographers out there so having a nice portfolio and being able to make money out of it are two different things. I'd also say you take good shots, but not distinguished shots. You should take the skills you obviously have and try to develop a sense of composition that leads to shots that rise above nice and stand out. The other thing is, of course, there's a world of difference between taking some decent shots and and being able to respond to a brief and come up with the goods. There's some pretty good shots in there, though. You should pursue the idea.

Oh, and blown highlights are just another tool in your toolbox.

Angus Young

Cookeh wrote:

You were a designer yesterday, offering some chap advice - presumably gained from another 30 years of experience - on how to not get bogged down by retorts.

Have you discovered time travel? Care to share? I've done some silly things in the past I wouldn't mind rectifying...

And I'm still a designer today. And a creative director. And an art director. And a web designer. And a CGI artist. And a screen writer. And a portrait painter.

Some of us can do more than one thing in life.

Angus Young

Delete. Sorry, double post.

Cookeh

Angus Young wrote:

Cookeh wrote:

You were a designer yesterday, offering some chap advice - presumably gained from another 30 years of experience - on how to not get bogged down by retorts.

Have you discovered time travel? Care to share? I've done some silly things in the past I wouldn't mind rectifying...

And I'm still a designer today. And a creative director. And an art director. And a web designer. And a CGI artist. And a screen writer. And a portrait painter.

Some of us can do more than one thing in life.

So in essence, you, like others, have several hobbies and dabble in a few things here and there alongside your fulltime job. I mean hell, if thats the case, I'm a web designer, graphic illustrator, novelist, musician, carpenter, handyman, photographer, DJ, Sound Production Engineer, etc etc etc and doing a full time Masters degree in Chemistry - can I now go out and offer 'professional' advice on the internet about those things?
I may well be barking up the wrong tree, however, and you may well have several years of experience and great success in all of the fields you quoted above - in which case I apologise, but I do find that unlikely.

But this has nothing to do with the OPs questionnaire, or even the thread title.

Kowalski675

Cookeh wrote:

I've done some silly things in the past I wouldn't mind rectifying...

Who hasn't? :roll:

Kowalski675

CitizenLee, I just noticed your Flickr link, this one of Nico's my favourite:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/citizen_lee/3428621400/

Some other nice shots too - I love the grumpy faced light graffiti drawing.

Kowalski675

Cookeh wrote:

and doing a full time Masters degree in Chemistry

This guy's an industrial chemist by trade. He's easily good enough to go pro, producing consistently stunning work, but he prefers to keep it as a hobby:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulprince/sets/

Angus Young

Cookeh wrote:

So in essence, you, like others, have several hobbies and dabble in a few things here and there alongside your fulltime job. I mean hell, if thats the case...

I may well be barking up the wrong tree, however, and you may well have several years of experience and great success in all of the fields you quoted above - in which case I apologise, but I do find that unlikely.

But this has nothing to do with the OPs questionnaire, or even the thread title.

'Fraid you are. I do them all professionally and, for much of the time, on high profile projects for household names. Oh, and I should have added film editor and copywriter to the list as well.

But you're right, this has nothing to do with the OP's question. So perhaps you should have resisted the urge.