Building up leg muscle?

MTB noob

I know I am a mountain biker but I'm posting here as road cyclists generally talk about power, efficiency and weight more (sweeping assumption made). But now with the question:

What is the most suitable training method for building up more muscle for decent length rides (20-60km off road)? I have tried sets of short bursts, 60 sec intervals and just maintaining a constant power and all it's done is make me lose a bit more weight rather than build muscle. Am I doing it wrong?

I usually go cycling on Saturdays and an indoor sesh on Wednesdays plus nipping to college and back and about (I'm on my bike 6-7 days a week), have used a Wattbike to get my current fitness figures so I thought this will help.

Here's my dimensions (as of 09/01/2014)
Height: 182cm
Weight: 66.5kg
Power average (as of Dec 2013):
5sec - 1080W
1 min - 565W
6:47 (5km) - 332W
20 min - 266W

Thanks

imposter2.0

More muscle is not needed. What is needed is more fitness.

MTB noob

The reason for the fitness hype is that I want to have a shot at a few races in summer 2014 and I don't want to embarrass myself. So has anyone got any training advice for improving fitness?

imposter2.0

Well, just ride your bike a lot - longer and slower, or shorter and harder. That's the 'non-scientific' answer, anyway...

cougie

Look at Froome and Wiggos legs - they're a lot different to Hoys. Just ride the bike.

dw300

You've got plenty of muscle. Problem is you only use about 60% of it with any useful effect for most your time on the bike. The solution is keep doing what you're doing with the short hard intervals to give the other 40% the characteristics of the first 60%.

Then as mentioned above, train long and slow to develop more capillaries and mitochondria in all of it.

All this will result in lots more power even if you don't actually build a single gram more muscle fibre.

MTB noob

So the best thing to do is to set up a interval short burst day and a day for long rides to optimise what I already have then. You can tell I'm not good at biology or sport science....

alihisgreat

You're pretty skinny for 182cm?!!? I'm 10kg heavier than you at the same height (probably with similar 20min and 1 min numbers, although my 5sec power is probably higher)

Muscle bulk has nothing to do with your numbers (apart from maybe your 5sec power).. take a look at the pro-cyclist build and you seem to fit the bill at that height and weight! Unless you are carting around loads of fat (which at that weight I'd say would be impossible?!) you simply need to look at improving muscular endurance and your aerobic fitness for longer rides.

This means:

-ride the bike more
-ride the bike more
-ride the bike more
-do some proper training
-ride the bike more
-ride the bike more
-ride the bike more

In all honesty your numbers are nothing to be ashamed of.. your FTP is in the region of 3.8w/kg which I'd say would quite easily get you up into 3rd cat on the road if you picked events with a finish that suited your build - not sure how that related to MTB racing but I think its safe to say that you're not going to be let down by your fitness in lower category races.. particularly if you do some proper training and improve further.

A pretty simple way to structure your training over a week:

Monday - very easy 1hr
Tuesday - Interval session - 2x20mins (or similar to work on FTP)
Wednesday - very easy 1 hr (or 30mins just to loosen up)
Thurs - Interval session - 3x5mins (or something similar to work on VO2 or shorter duration power)
Friday - Day off (or 30mins to loosen up)
Saturday - easy cafe ride 1-2 hours
Sunday - club ride 3-4 hours

dennisn

What about squats and weight training?

So sorry guys, really. Just couldn't resist. :oops:

MTB noob

ALIHISGREAT - Yeah the reason for why I am so light is that I have hardly any upper body build and that figure went down from 69kg since October. I've looked up roadie categories and it looks like I could possibly do well in regional races. There isn't really a class system for mountain biking (you just climb up the leaderboard). I will have a shot at this training structure and modify it a bit for my daily routine.

dennisn - I haven't really ever tried weights at all so even if I decided I want to include that in my training, I wouldn't know what to do. Sounds a bit stupid really.

Would a specific diet help with my training at all? I already add electrolytes to my water (as well as some squash).

briantrumpet

MTB noob wrote:

dennisn - I haven't really ever tried weights at all so even if I decided I want to include that in my training, I wouldn't know what to do. Sounds a bit stupid really.

Don't worry, it's just Dennis being cheeky. There's quite a long history of 'discussion' about leg power and strength, and Dennis has not exactly been a stranger to the discussions. I'd have sent him an invite to this thread if he hadn't found it himself, as I'd have hated him to miss an opportunity to say hello.

buckles

MTB noob wrote:

Would a specific diet help with my training at all? I already add electrolytes to my water (as well as some squash).

Are electrolyte supplements necessary?

alihisgreat

MTB noob wrote:

ALIHISGREAT - Yeah the reason for why I am so light is that I have hardly any upper body build and that figure went down from 69kg since October. I've looked up roadie categories and it looks like I could possibly do well in regional races. There isn't really a class system for mountain biking (you just climb up the leaderboard). I will have a shot at this training structure and modify it a bit for my daily routine.

dennisn - I haven't really ever tried weights at all so even if I decided I want to include that in my training, I wouldn't know what to do. Sounds a bit stupid really.

Would a specific diet help with my training at all? I already add electrolytes to my water (as well as some squash).

haha I don't have much of an upper body either a 76kg!

Don't take my suggestion for training structure as gospel, its just a suggestion of how you should be thinking about structuring it. There are definitely more elements to consider in a good training plan.

(oh and dennisn was joking; don't start asking about weight training! )

MTB noob

Yeah I'm a bit slow on the internet humour. It really didn't sound right about the weights.

Buckles - I add a teaspoon of Andrews salts to my bottle for long rides (1.5 hours or more) to keep my salt levels up. I use that instead of tablets because they're cheaper and it only contains magnesium sulfate and such salts with sucrose (natural sugar). I tend to avoid branded stuff because it contains sweeteners such as aspartame of which it has an adverse effect on me.

kom14

MTB Noob it's likely that you're in a negative energy balance if regularly losing body mass, basically meaning that you're using more energy than you're putting in. Endurance exercise also promotes the release of hormones that break down muscle tissue so the importance of recovering properly after your rides and even your commute should be at the top of your priority list by the sound of it. Might be worth speaking to a sports nutritionist or someone that you trust to have some knowledge about this.

Resistance training doesn't get much support on the forums (Not starting another debate by the way), personally I've been doing 2 x 1 hr sessions a week since mid Nov (Basic Strength & Core) and will reduce to 1 per week mid Feb once I've completed a 12 week pre-season training block. I've found the combination with outdoor cycling and wattbike sessions very beneficial for MY performance when testing / re-testing. Have put on some lower body muscle mass, but also reduced total body mass by 2.5kg.

Also agree that the time on the bike is important, but is very individual and should be tailored to what your cycling goals are for the season.

MTB noob

It may be the reason that I occasionally skip lunch because I have something else to do at college. I am aware that I don't need or want to lose any more weight but I need to find the correct technique to build up my endurance. I don't think eating is that important as my college is only 2 miles away and takes me 13 mins (it's a 100% A-road route) or 7 mins at lunch time.

Also another issue may be that I only eat when I'm hungry so it may be too late when it's refuel time and I don't eat while riding for journeys less than 2 hours which could the issue with my training.

dennisn

briantrumpet wrote:

MTB noob wrote:

dennisn - I haven't really ever tried weights at all so even if I decided I want to include that in my training, I wouldn't know what to do. Sounds a bit stupid really.

Don't worry, it's just Dennis being cheeky. There's quite a long history of 'discussion' about leg power and strength, and Dennis has not exactly been a stranger to the discussions. I'd have sent him an invite to this thread if he hadn't found it himself, as I'd have hated him to miss an opportunity to say hello.

Sorry about all that. I just couldn't resist. This thread was just calling my name. :oops:

samsemtex

dennisn wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

MTB noob wrote:

dennisn - I haven't really ever tried weights at all so even if I decided I want to include that in my training, I wouldn't know what to do. Sounds a bit stupid really.

Don't worry, it's just Dennis being cheeky. There's quite a long history of 'discussion' about leg power and strength, and Dennis has not exactly been a stranger to the discussions. I'd have sent him an invite to this thread if he hadn't found it himself, as I'd have hated him to miss an opportunity to say hello.

Sorry about all that. I just couldn't resist. This thread was just calling my name. :oops:

Weight training is vital for mountain biking. Squats are vital for proper weight training. So in effect squats are a good idea. I dont know if its downhill or enduro you want to race but all i will say is that in my experience nearly all the top guys in gravity racing have a sizeable upper body. None of them are built like roadies.

briantrumpet

samsemtex wrote:

Weight training is vital for mountain biking. Squats are vital for proper weight training. So in effect squats are a good idea. I dont know if its downhill or enduro you want to race but all i will say is that in my experience nearly all the top guys in gravity racing have a sizeable upper body. None of them are built like roadies.

Please, I think Dennis is doing very well with his therapist ... certain trigger words could easily cause a relapse

dennisn

briantrumpet wrote:

samsemtex wrote:

Weight training is vital for mountain biking. Squats are vital for proper weight training. So in effect squats are a good idea. I dont know if its downhill or enduro you want to race but all i will say is that in my experience nearly all the top guys in gravity racing have a sizeable upper body. None of them are built like roadies.

Please, I think Dennis is doing very well with his therapist ... certain trigger words could easily cause a relapse

Heh heh 8)

ednino

Where did you get those power figures from lol

MTB noob

ednino - At my college, they have Wattbikes and I use one in my weekly time slot which means I can set it up and look at my results and see how I am doing. All I have to do is set it on what time I need to do and get my results from the computer at the end.

kom14 - I tried to increase my ride length on Sunday but the thing was a river burst it's banks so my route got cut from 45 to 25 miles.

samsemtex - I would love to get into Enduro/DH/FR but the thing that's holding me back is that I'm still trying to punch above the entry level XC area (Halfords level) of bike prices. Multi-payment is out of the question as I'm yet to be 18 as well. It doesn't help either with the fact most of my drivetrain needs replacing anyway. But yeah, If I had the bike, I would definitely be building upper body strength to race.