Fat burning intervals

Brian1

Like some at this time of year I am trying to drop some weight and am doing 1 min flat out every 5 minutes for 45 minutes. My question is if I am tryiny to lose weight is this ok or would I be better doing flat out intervals for 30 seconds every 3 minutes. Over to the experts out there!

diamonddog

You need to be eating correctly, this is the biggest part of weight loss.

markhewitt1978

From what I've read on the subject (no expert), it's all about calories in vs calories out, so as said exercise means nothing without diet.

However in the matter of intervals, they do help but only in so much as you're burning calories, they don't really help burn fat as a greater proportion of fat (as a proportion of calories) is burned at moderate exertion levels.

However; the intervals will be a big fitness benefit so keep doing them too!

imposter2.0

Brian1 wrote:

Like some at this time of year I am trying to drop some weight and am doing 1 min flat out every 5 minutes for 45 minutes. My question is if I am tryiny to lose weight is this ok or would I be better doing flat out intervals for 30 seconds every 3 minutes. Over to the experts out there!

If your aim is to lose weight, just ride as consistently hard as you can for as long as you can. No need for intervals. Agree that diet is key to weight loss though...

mpatts

For me, I just can't get on with anything faddy/special regarding weight loss - I just can't see the results or stick to it.

What I find really easy to stick to (and it's how I lost and easily kept off 2 stone) is the following:

1) Eat your morning from a smaller bowl
2) For dinner, on your plate have 1/4 protein, 1/4 starch/carb, 1/2 veggies.
3) Rode the bike when I could

1 and 2 are more important than 3 if you are loosing weight.

Simples.

If you want any good food ideas, follow runners world on Twitter.

bernithebiker

I would say one of the best ways to lose weight is to ride gently over a long period, e.g 3 hours + in Zone 1 and 2.

Short, intense bursts, whilst serving a purpose, will not add up to much as far as weight burning goes.

imposter2.0

bernithebiker wrote:

I would say one of the best ways to lose weight is to ride gently over a long period, e.g 3 hours + in Zone 1 and 2.

Short, intense bursts, whilst serving a purpose, will not add up to much as far as weight burning goes.

Calorie usage equates to effort and duration. It's quite possible to burn more calories during a short, intense ride than it is to slowly burn them on a long ride.

Brian1

Flippin eck that was quick! Thanks for the replies. I am limiting my calories to 1800 a day so hopefully should see some results. Been using the turbo as the weather has been so sh!t.

markhewitt1978

Is it not the case; however, that more fat is burned as a porpotion of the total calories when going at a moderate pace than flat out - even though if you're going flat out for 1 hour you will burn more fat than if you were going steady; going steady means you can keep going for another 2 hours; or do other things with your day without being knackered.

buckles

Probably better off riding near threshold for an hour or tempo for two hours as your average energy usage will be higher than 1 minute of really hard riding followed by four of recovery.

As mentioned above diet is the most important factor, but from what I've read sleep is really important too. Sleep deprivation supposedly messes with the hormones responsible for hunger, which supposedly makes it harder to control your appetite.

imposter2.0

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Is it not the case; however, that more fat is burned as a porpotion of the total calories when going at a moderate pace than flat out - even though if you're going flat out for 1 hour you will burn more fat than if you were going steady; going steady means you can keep going for another 2 hours; or do other things with your day without being knackered.

Fat is burned in more or less equal proportions regardless of effort level. You may burn slightly more at low level, but we're talking the difference between 50/50 and 60/40 or thereabouts. Calories usage is the principal consideration, regardless - and an hour at threshold may well see you burning more calories than three hours of low level effort.

michaelede

FWIW HIIT has been shown to be superior for fat loss, not because of the calorie burn during the exercise but the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (epoc) which pushes your calorie burn even higher.

A decent summary with references here:

http://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2012/decemb ... -exercise/

bernithebiker

I can see how intense bursts will accelerate calorie consumption as well as improving VO2 max and general fitness, but if an overweight newbie thinks that an hour a week of this kind of 1min on 5 min off training will get them as slim as a solid 8 hour 'old school' training week, then I fear they may be disappointed.

cougie

I think it helps to put the hours in on the bike or walking or whatever. OK you burn calories at whatever level - but more importantly - you're not at home poking round the biscuit barrel. That might just be me though.....

markhewitt1978

cougie wrote:

I think it helps to put the hours in on the bike or walking or whatever. OK you burn calories at whatever level - but more importantly - you're not at home poking round the biscuit barrel. That might just be me though.....

Yep. I don't really have time to get on the bike any other time than Sunday mornings. But I do fast walking / running every lunch hour at work during the week. It's no substitute for time on the bike but it's got to be better than doing nothing.

imposter2.0

bernithebiker wrote:

I can see how intense bursts will accelerate calorie consumption as well as improving VO2 max and general fitness, but if an overweight newbie thinks that an hour a week of this kind of 1min on 5 min off training will get them as slim as a solid 8 hour 'old school' training week, then I fear they may be disappointed.

Nobody has suggested that.

bernithebiker

Imposter wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

I can see how intense bursts will accelerate calorie consumption as well as improving VO2 max and general fitness, but if an overweight newbie thinks that an hour a week of this kind of 1min on 5 min off training will get them as slim as a solid 8 hour 'old school' training week, then I fear they may be disappointed.

Nobody has suggested that.

Well kind of, yes.

The suggestion being that short intense work can be a better substitute for fat burning than longer hours on the bike.

It's a question of scale; is 1 hour of the short intense stuff = 2 hours of steady Z1 and 2 riding, or 3 or 4?

For a slightly overweight relative newbie, I would say yes fine, do the hour of short intense intervals, but don't neglect the time in the saddle spent at low intensity, if for no other reason than a fairly unfit person is capable of putting in quite a few hours like this.

Brian1

Berni I would call myself a newbie.( Riding now 7 years)I was merely asking the question was there any benefit in doing shorter intervals and shorter 'rest' periods.I know there is no substitute for hours in the saddle and watchin your diet! As I said in the OP this is just to help get rid of Christmas excess and because the weather is so crap at present and when it is reasonable I am at work!

dw300

Do you have any other targets rather than just loose weight?

How much time do you have to dedicate to this?

MikeWW

On the diet side its not quite as simple as calories in and out
its more about carbs if you want to lose fat not muscle
Easiest way to lose weight IMO is low carbs- no potatoes, bread, processes food
No dairy. no fruit, no alcohol
Drink water, green tea, black coffee ( in moderation)

Exercise wise keep intensity relatively low but as much as you can do. Too intense and you will deplete your stored carbs and run out of energy (without eating more)

bernithebiker

MikeWW wrote:

Easiest way to lose weight IMO is low carbs- no potatoes, bread, processes food
No dairy. no fruit, no alcohol

Doesn't leave a great deal does it?! What's wrong with fruit? I love a banana or three.

bahzob

The short answer to the OP is (from the real experience of shedding 20kg and ending up with a BMI of 21 and 12% fat @54 years)

- Losing weight (and more importantly shedding fat) requires a combination of improving diet and taking more exercise. Just doing one or the other will not work long term.
- 45 minutes per day is really not much in terms of exercise. If that is all you have then the best way to spend it in terms of pure weight loss would be to go as hard as you can sustain at a hard but steady pace for the full 45 minutes. Try setting a PB in terms of distance covered and try to beat it each time you ride. This will burn more calories and cause a greater absolute "EPOC" effect as mentioned above than what you are doing atm.
- As a bit of variety doing some hard short intervals as you are doing/suggested above are a nice but painful change. These won't burn as many calories but will help you get fitter and thereby increase the intensity>calories burned of a steady state effort. Another variant would be to go as hard as possible for 20 minutes (which should be faster than your 45 minute PB), rest a few minutes then do another 20 minutes.
- So in terms of the 45 minute sessions I would aim to mix up hard steady state with interval work. If it is really only 45 minutes then I'd also cut warm-up to couple of minutes and skip cool down altogether. Also you need no special food/drink before during or after such short sessions. Just drink water and stick to your diet plan.

- However just as important is to look at the remaining non-sleep 15 or so hours per day and do whatever you can to increase BMR during that time. Simple stuff such as standing instead of sitting, walking/riding not driving, using the stairs etc. etc. will all add up to as much as your 45 minute session, not just in terms of calories burned but also overall health most especially insulin regulation. There are lots of gizmos to help track/motivate this (Jawbone, Fitbit, Nike + phone apps), I'd suggest getting one.

- There is no miracle diet that works for everyone all the time. This is obvious from the sheer range of diets and views on the subject out there. In my experience the best of the "fads" for those doing endurance cycling is the "Holford low-GL" diet. There is a lot of rubbish in the book but the core concept in terms of theory and the foods/recipes to follow are sound and work long term. It is certainly way more balanced and healthy than the, frankly idiotic, suggestions like not eating fruit. It also includes some specific advice for those doing hard exercise which is rare.

- I'll also go out on a limb and suggest that there is an increasing body of evidence, quite aside from the 5:2 hype, to suggest that intermittent fasting is worth considering not only from the pov of weight loss but also general health. e.g. http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/weight-loss-with-intermittent-fasting.html. This may be worth trying. If you are only doing 45 minute sessions then these won't be affected much if at all by this approach. Also it nicely complements the Holford diet.

mmacavity

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17177251

"The fact is that people respond to exercise in very different ways."

LegendLust

MikeWW wrote:

On the diet side its not quite as simple as calories in and out
its more about carbs if you want to lose fat not muscle
Easiest way to lose weight IMO is low carbs- no potatoes, bread, processes food
No dairy. no fruit, no alcohol
Drink water, green tea, black coffee ( in moderation)

Exercise wise keep intensity relatively low but as much as you can do. Too intense and you will deplete your stored carbs and run out of energy (without eating more)

High GI carbs do have a place in cycling nutrition (although I try to keep away from wheat based carbs). And so does dairy produce and fruit. Dairy produce has loads of nutrients plus whey protein and fruits contains loads of nutrients, anti oxidents etc. People on this forum are too pre-occupied with weight loss when they should be concentrating on eating nutrient dense food stuffs - this is the key to good recovery and a healthy immune system.

I agree that being strict with carbs is the key to fat loss - but when you eat these carbs (and which types) is crucial to recovery and fat loss.

MikeWW

I was talking about fat loss (which is not a steady state goal) and the fact that it is a reduction in carb intake that is key.
and not necessarily calorie intake
Some info re fruit here http://authoritynutrition.com/fruit-and-low-carb/

I agree you have to bear in mind what training you are doing. 1 1/2 hours of moderate/intense cycling is going to consume about 30g of carbs and you have to think about replacing that or risk "bonking" In that situation a banana would be a good source of replacement carbs in that situation.

Obviously there is a difference between cycling to improve performance and cycling with fat loss as a primary goal. Food strategies are clealy different for the two

MikeWW

bernithebiker wrote:

MikeWW wrote:

Easiest way to lose weight IMO is low carbs- no potatoes, bread, processes food
No dairy. no fruit, no alcohol

Doesn't leave a great deal does it?! What's wrong with fruit? I love a banana or three.

It leaves plenty.Nothing "wrong" with a banana but it contains about 30g of carbs. 3 bananas would represent the maximum carbs your body could store assuming your body was completely depleted of carbs. Any more from whatever source gets stored as fat

LegendLust

MikeWW wrote:

I was talking about fat loss (which is not a steady state goal) and the fact that it is a reduction in carb intake that is key.
and not necessarily calorie intake
Some info re fruit here V

I agree you have to bear in mind what training you are doing. 1 1/2 hours of moderate/intense cycling is going to consume about 30g of carbs and you have to think about replacing that or risk "bonking" In that situation a banana would be a good source of replacement carbs in that situation.

Obviously there is a difference between cycling to improve performance and cycling with fat loss as a primary goal. Food strategies are clealy different for the two

Not necessarily - if you speak to a sports nutritionist they can help you achieve both goals at the same time. And surely fat loss does improve performance i.e increased power to weight ratio?

dw300

MikeWW wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

MikeWW wrote:

Easiest way to lose weight IMO is low carbs- no potatoes, bread, processes food
No dairy. no fruit, no alcohol

Doesn't leave a great deal does it?! What's wrong with fruit? I love a banana or three.

It leaves plenty.Nothing "wrong" with a banana but it contains about 30g of carbs. 3 bananas would represent the maximum carbs your body could store assuming your body was completely depleted of carbs. Any more from whatever source gets stored as fat

I assume you mean 300g? The body can store a lot more than 120kcals worth of glycogen!

MikeWW

dw300 wrote:

MikeWW wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

MikeWW wrote:

Easiest way to lose weight IMO is low carbs- no potatoes, bread, processes food
No dairy. no fruit, no alcohol

Doesn't leave a great deal does it?! What's wrong with fruit? I love a banana or three.

It leaves plenty.Nothing "wrong" with a banana but it contains about 30g of carbs. 3 bananas would represent the maximum carbs your body could store assuming your body was completely depleted of carbs. Any more from whatever source gets stored as fat

I assume you mean 300g? The body can store a lot more than 120kcals worth of glycogen!

Yes, you are right my mistake. 90g is about as much as you need to replenish your gylcogen stores not the full amount your body can store (because clearly you can't use up your entire glycogen supply) For an average person you only need about 130g of carbs a day. Now I accept a cyclist needs more and steady state would be more like 3-5g per KG of body mass.

The basic point I am trying to get across that to lose weight by losing fat you need a carb deficit and that some food contain a high amount of carbs so you have to be careful.

keef66

"Easiest way to lose weight IMO is low carbs- no potatoes, bread, processes food
No dairy. no fruit, no alcohol
Drink water, green tea, black coffee ( in moderation)"

Bloody hell, I'm not surprised you'd lose weight on that kind of diet, it's completely calorie free!

poynedexter

as a few have said, you must control insulin levels via carbohydrates. insulin is the key to both storing fat, and using fat as a fuel.

cut right down on sugary food off the bike (read the labels). dont carb up before a ride. eat some carbs during the ride as required.

eat more saturated fat. eat more protein. eat less carbohydrate. calories arent the key long term.