Got a spare €400m ?

kieranb

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

Doesn't Roman Abramovich have an €800,000,000 yacht? Pretty sure he does

He ownes Eclipse which now isn't at the top but he is having his new Yacht built which is €1,200,000.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:

Owning a Yacht would be an amazing thing, even for the people here who pretend that owning anything nice makes you the scum of the earth. Of course owning such a thing comes with massive costs but you rarely find poor people buying them in the first place.

Ohh, and yes I do have a few private plates, another decent investment if you get it right.

yawn

A very valid (if pointless) comment.
The world needs leaders and followers and you have the right, as anyone else does in life to follow and do the menial work (like me and the majority) whilst people like these have wealth beyond comprehension.
I chose not to be negative towards them as they have almost all worked their socks off to get to where they are and as long as it's legal why should we chose what they have the right to buy ? Think of the 200+ people employed for 3 years building these things.
I wouldn't buy this but if I have 20billion in the bank I would deck stelph have a yacht. Let's face it, you could never do a Thomson all inclusive for a fortnight a year !

Why should I care any more about a rich person than a poor person? They are not somehow better people -- or leaders as you call them. They have simply arrived at a position to requisition more stuff through a variety of events: the lottery of birth, hard work, crime, fortune or marriage. It is no more to their credit that they are rich than it is their fault, it is just their particular existence.

Your slavish devotion to the baubles of wealth strikes me as much more sheepish behaviour that those who don't really care about $400million yachts.

I honestly think you should watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI. Worshipping material goods as an end in themselves, not just as a means to gain a fuller enjoyment of life with those around you, will only lead to disappointment when every must-have-object loses its savour and another unaffordable yearning takes its place to drive you ever so slightly mad.

What of the boredom of following this kind of life when you really can afford anything and there is nothing else to buy and you realise that with all that wealth and conferred power you are still human and no different to the rest of us.

slightly related to this, TED talk by Paul Piff:

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_does_money_make_you_mean.html

DesB3rd

Looks like HMS Illustrious avoided the scrappers and the new owner covered the deck in the left-overs from a failed theme park.

VTech

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

Doesn't Roman Abramovich have an €800,000,000 yacht? Pretty sure he does

He ownes Eclipse which now isn't at the top but he is having his new Yacht built which is €1,200,000.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:

Owning a Yacht would be an amazing thing, even for the people here who pretend that owning anything nice makes you the scum of the earth. Of course owning such a thing comes with massive costs but you rarely find poor people buying them in the first place.

Ohh, and yes I do have a few private plates, another decent investment if you get it right.

yawn

A very valid (if pointless) comment.
The world needs leaders and followers and you have the right, as anyone else does in life to follow and do the menial work (like me and the majority) whilst people like these have wealth beyond comprehension.
I chose not to be negative towards them as they have almost all worked their socks off to get to where they are and as long as it's legal why should we chose what they have the right to buy ? Think of the 200+ people employed for 3 years building these things.
I wouldn't buy this but if I have 20billion in the bank I would deck stelph have a yacht. Let's face it, you could never do a Thomson all inclusive for a fortnight a year !

Why should I care any more about a rich person than a poor person? They are not somehow better people -- or leaders as you call them. They have simply arrived at a position to requisition more stuff through a variety of events: the lottery of birth, hard work, crime, fortune or marriage. It is no more to their credit that they are rich than it is their fault, it is just their particular existence.

Your slavish devotion to the baubles of wealth strikes me as much more sheepish behaviour that those who don't really care about $400million yachts.

I honestly think you should watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI. Worshipping material goods as an end in themselves, not just as a means to gain a fuller enjoyment of life with those around you, will only lead to disappointment when every must-have-object loses its savour and another unaffordable yearning takes its place to drive you ever so slightly mad.

What of the boredom of following this kind of life when you really can afford anything and there is nothing else to buy and you realise that with all that wealth and conferred power you are still human and no different to the rest of us.

And other daft reply.
I don't care wether someone is broke or loaded and defend all levels equally.
If you or people like you biatch at the super wealthy I find thy as daft as someone biatching at an unemployed person who can't afford a week in Spain yearly.
I simply defend the fact that there are two sides and neither is right or wrong.

I think the real sadness isn't the fact that I dont slate either side but the fact others do ?!?

pinno

VTech wrote:

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

Doesn't Roman Abramovich have an €800,000,000 yacht? Pretty sure he does

He ownes..
Owning a...

Ohh, and yes I do have a few private plates, another decent investment if you get it right.

yawn

The world needs leaders and followers

Having wealth is not a 'leadership' quality.

and you have the right, as anyone else does in life to follow and do the menial work (like me and the majority) whilst people like these have wealth beyond comprehension.
I chose not to be negative towards them as they have almost all worked their socks off to get to where they are and as long as it's legal why should we chose what they have the right to buy ? Think of the 200+ people employed for 3 years building these things.
I wouldn't buy this but if I have 20billion in the bank I would deck stelph have a yacht. Let's face it, you could never do a Thomson all inclusive for a fortnight a year !

As a raving lefty looney, I could not disagree with you more.
The vast majority of the super rich are there because of the exploitation of others and a global system which allows them not to pay sufficient tax. The hardest work is often done by the lowest paid.
I don't give a monkeys if they work hard. There are brick makers in India stuck in 'bondage' who earn pittance. They work from dawn till dusk and get seriously ill on the fumes of brick kilns without which, the rich would not have fancy houses built exclusivley for them.
I do not purport to the Neo-Liberalist/Neo-Con ethic of 'We can all be entepreprenuers'. It is bollox. The very fabric of society relies on Nurses, Doctors, Street Cleaners, Shoe Makers, Sewerage Workers, Farmers etc etc and primarily: manual labour.
The world has finite resources to which the rich and super rich are consuming at an unsustainble rate which will affect all of us if it is not already.
Having super millions and private jets, yachts and Ferrari's is a lifestyle that should not be held in high regard by anyone. Abramovitch and the ilk should be taken out the back and shot because beyond a very comfortable lifestyle and exotic holidays, why does one individual need such obscene wealth, when millions live in dire poverty? There is an inextricable link between the very poor and the super rich

VTech

pinarello001 wrote:

VTech wrote:

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

Doesn't Roman Abramovich have an €800,000,000 yacht? Pretty sure he does

He ownes..
Owning a...

Ohh, and yes I do have a few private plates, another decent investment if you get it right.

yawn

The world needs leaders and followers

Having wealth is not a 'leadership' quality.

and you have the right, as anyone else does in life to follow and do the menial work (like me and the majority) whilst people like these have wealth beyond comprehension.
I chose not to be negative towards them as they have almost all worked their socks off to get to where they are and as long as it's legal why should we chose what they have the right to buy ? Think of the 200+ people employed for 3 years building these things.
I wouldn't buy this but if I have 20billion in the bank I would deck stelph have a yacht. Let's face it, you could never do a Thomson all inclusive for a fortnight a year !

As a raving lefty looney, I could not disagree with you more.
The vast majority of the super rich are there because of the exploitation of others and a global system which allows them not to pay sufficient tax. The hardest work is often done by the lowest paid.
I don't give a monkeys if they work hard. There are brick makers in India stuck in 'bondage' who earn pittance. They work from dawn till dusk and get seriously ill on the fumes of brick kilns without which, the rich would not have fancy houses built exclusivley for them.
I do not purport to the Neo-Liberalist/Neo-Con ethic of 'We can all be entepreprenuers'. It is bollox. The very fabric of society relies on Nurses, Doctors, Street Cleaners, Shoe Makers, Sewerage Workers, Farmers etc etc and primarily: manual labour.
The world has finite resources to which the rich and super rich are consuming at an unsustainble rate which will affect all of us if it is not already.
Having super millions and private jets, yachts and Ferrari's is a lifestyle that should not be held in high regard by anyone. Abramovitch and the ilk should be taken out the back and shot because beyond a very comfortable lifestyle and exotic holidays, why does one individual need such obscene wealth, when millions live in dire poverty? There is an inextricable link between the very poor and the super rich

Well, although I don't agree with all you said, at least you backed your point with a valid argument instead of a yawn or a fek the rick line etc.
I agree that life isn't fair, I don't think it ever can be which is why every few years we have recession and global financial issues. In the UK for example we all got too wealthy ( I don't think anyone in Britain really knows poverty) and so the jobs that needed doing seemed to be beneath us and so people came from other regions of our planet to do them jobs. That in turn agravates many who say foreigners are coming here taking our jobs, this very jobs the people here didn't want !!
You in turn have people who wether by birth, fortune of events, marriage or plain luck end up with vast wealthy a that they could never spend and again, it's the same story but the opposite side.
My opinion won't be shared by all and I've not met a super rich person yet who isn't TOTALLY brutal in business, I dont think its possible to make it to mega riches and be calm and polite to all. Ruthlessness is paramount to attaining that level.
Although I would hate to be like that, I don't hate or despise others who are as I realise there is and always will be an order. Just like a nurse who does her 45 hours for her salary or the road cleaner shifting cr4p for his money. It's needed just like directors of business in their ferraris who employ people.
Communism on the face of it sounds great but humans are locusts (matrix movies) and we devour, we want more wether that be me loving cars I can't really afford or someone here wanting the latest £10k cervelo road bike.
Some chose to do anything they can to get thy car or road bike and others just dream.
Some chose to smile at others who manage it and some chose to despise those who manage it.
It's life, it's the way humans are and I'm not sure what is right or wrong really. It's 3am and I haven't slept for 2 days so maybe talking rubbish but it does make sense (in my head anyway)

nathancom

I just realised that I nearly entered an argument with Vtech, which is stupid for 2 reasons:

1) he changes his stance with almost every post in order to appear to have come up with the points other people made that undercut his prior position 2) he is a complete idiot and thinks he is Jesus Christ with a bit of patronising sanctimony and financial investment advice added for good measure.

dodgy

Personal plates, especially ones that obviously cost a few bob are for the insecure. People for who having money isn't enough, they want to tell everyone else. A private plate doesn't add any functionality to a car.

Now Vtech is going to take exception to this, but I am absolutely 100% correct

VTech

@nathancom, my point hasn't changed, my point is straightforward and constant. I chose not to knock people for the life they live or the way they act as long as its lawful. regardless of wether I or you agree, its their choice and with only one chance, who has the right to alter what some see as right and fulfilling.

@dodgy, again, personal choice, who are we to condemn someone who choses a path that is both legal and beneficial to others.


I find it odd how there are so many jealous people here, I say that based on the fact that even though most people here think it is wrong for some to have so much when others have so little, they don't make it an issue to go further than saying it is unfair and leave it at that whilst others, like some of the above do everything they can to attack those who have done well in a financial way.

The reality is that I actually think that those who have done well at work, maybe working for others, maybe a small business etc have the best life, that of mixing family and friends within the working efforts required whilst those like Obramovich would almost certainly have missed out on the riches others class as the highest priority, family, kids, TRUE friends etc.

I have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER said which is right, so those saying I change my stance are in fact the idiots writing things I haven't said, I may have said its right for them but it is always going to be subjective, I like to work 7 days a week, always have done but that wasn't right for the family so I in fact made the mistakes.

Money hasn't anything to do with it, its others here who have made the issues regarding finances, finances are the by product of a certain way of life and is definitely not the richness that is of the greatest life value.

rolf_f

dodgy wrote:

Personal plates, especially ones that obviously cost a few bob are for the insecure. People for who having money isn't enough, they want to tell everyone else. A private plate doesn't add any functionality to a car.

Now Vtech is going to take exception to this, but I am absolutely 100% correct

There are so many problems with personalised plates....

1) Unless you pay a fortune, your personalised plate is invariably crap. What do you expect people to think of you if you have your name miss-spelled on your car. If you can't even spell your own name correctly, what can you do?
2) If you do pay a fortune, you can have your name correctly spelled on your car. But what sort of person has nothing better to do than waste that kind of money on something so pointless? Cliché though it is, surely this is the point where even the richest person, with any sense, would say to themselves "I can do something better with this money".
3) It indicates a woeful lack of judgement as to how you are seen by others. It is a very quick way to ensure that about 90% of the population, based solely on your number plate, will make the snap judgement that you are an imbecile. Which, though it may not be true, is a pretty unfortunate outcome for something so expensive.

Or maybe I'm missing something......

VTech

Rolf F wrote:

dodgy wrote:

Personal plates, especially ones that obviously cost a few bob are for the insecure. People for who having money isn't enough, they want to tell everyone else. A private plate doesn't add any functionality to a car.

Now Vtech is going to take exception to this, but I am absolutely 100% correct

There are so many problems with personalised plates....

1) Unless you pay a fortune, your personalised plate is invariably crap. What do you expect people to think of you if you have your name miss-spelled on your car. If you can't even spell your own name correctly, what can you do?
2) If you do pay a fortune, you can have your name correctly spelled on your car. But what sort of person has nothing better to do than waste that kind of money on something so pointless? Cliché though it is, surely this is the point where even the richest person, with any sense, would say to themselves "I can do something better with this money".
3) It indicates a woeful lack of judgement as to how you are seen by others. It is a very quick way to ensure that about 90% of the population, based solely on your number plate, will make the snap judgement that you are an imbecile. Which, though it may not be true, is a pretty unfortunate outcome for something so expensive.

Or maybe I'm missing something......

Maybe you are ?
I got a private plate for fathers day several years ago, spelled correctly and a perfect example of my job and the cost................ £380 inc transfer.
Also bought an old car years ago with GUM841L which worked out well (although spelling not correct text)

The argument here seems to be veering towards how people see waste, that in itself is subjective. If you have £1000 in the bank, it may be deemed a waste to spend £2500 on a number plate. If you have £100,000 in the bank it may not seem like waste.

I find this line of argument on THIS type of forum to be the biggest double standard any of us may come across.
None of us need carbon bikes (well a few who really race may but 99% of us don't) yet we "waste" money on what we neither need, nor will ever use to the level it is designed for.

Isn't that ironic ?

pinno

@Vtech. You make a couple of valid points. Yes, few of us really need carbon bikes but a carbon bike does not spew out Carbon Dioxide and other pollutants. This £400m ship is a super toy, for kids who have reached adulthood but are bereft of grown up morality.
They do not care how they get rich. They do not care who gets in the way or who suffers. They do not have the slightest concern about the grossly disproportionate use of resources.
Ironically, the little bloke who lives under a corrugated roof in Manilla with his 7 kids has a carbon footprint which is miniscule and the Oligarch sitting in his Tzarist yacht in Monaco with his global properties and his finger on the tap of the gas pipe poised to react to competition or perceived profit levels, has an astronomic environmental footprint.

I wish those on the right would stop comparing Capitalism with communism. I am not and have never espoused the virtues of Communism. I think humanity is stuffed because those in power and those with money will never evolve to the point where it is in our collective interest to reduce the continued exploitation of finite goods. Not in the name of Communism, but in the name of survival and humanity - something that is lacking amongst the select few.

A carbon bike cannot be compared to a £400m yacht.

@others. My OH and I have some savings. Our money is in an ISA. It earns pittance. We would actually be better off buying a number plate as it would be an investment worth more in the long term than any ISA. Also, it would make my old banger a little less dated. Another thing, I looked at a personal plate in my name - anything from £350 to £800. That is half the price of a S Record gruppo without depreciation. The tax man can't touch it either but he can tax my savings. I only wish the tax man could tax the super rich so that the gap between them and us is reduced and their behaviour and extravagence is tempered.
If you earn £5m per annum, you would not suffer one slight bit if I took 50% of it away in taxation and that would benefit many people. Actually, the very people who support you.

nathancom

It is just another thread about greed, conspicuous consumption and the fetishisation of the super rich. Not a surprise who the OP is.

rolf_f

VTech wrote:

None of us need carbon bikes (well a few who really race may but 99% of us don't) yet we "waste" money on what we neither need, nor will ever use to the level it is designed for.

Isn't that ironic ?

Not really. There are differences.

The general public think that £500 is an astonishing amount of money for a bike. Most will assume you paid less than that for your carbon beauty. Whilst there is an element of showing off in buying a bike that's better than your own ability, the only people who will appreciate that there is any difference between your Colnago C59 and a Carrera TdF are your fellow cyclists. Spending a lot on a bike isn't actually as blatently overt consumption as a personalised number plate.

On the other hand, a personalised number plate (for the most part) says nothing positive at all about the owner and the public will think you paid a lot of money for it and are a bit of a prat. You are just publically highlighting your poor taste and that for all your wealth, you haven't as much money as you really want unless your plate really is a 'good' one. Even if they are cheap, what are you trying to achieve by it? GUM841L is the perfect example of a terrible number plate. You want it to spell Gumball (which it does adequately as these things go) but it really spells Gum Bail which is meaningless. Which is probably not what you want.

And yes, you can get plates that do work out sort of OK and cheap if you want it to spell something relatively obscure but that is probably an exception rather than a rule. The only one I saw lately that I did enjoy was on an old Citroen Van. V154VAN. No idea how much it cost but probably not much as the only thing it would work on is a humble old Citroen Visa van and it was enjoyably descriptive.

But I come back to my previous point - why would you want to give a large proportion of the population such immediate justification to think you are an idiot before they've even met you? Because that is what your personalised number plates do. Surely the whole point of them is to make a statement to the population at large - but not the one you are actually making.

VTech wrote:

The argument here seems to be veering towards how people see waste, that in itself is subjective. If you have £1000 in the bank, it may be deemed a waste to spend £2500 on a number plate. If you have £100,000 in the bank it may not seem like waste.

You're absolutely right - the trick is (the morally correct trick) to realise that even though you do have £100,000 in the bank, it is still a waste to spend £2500 on a number plate. There's no point in personal wealth where conspicuous consumption for the sake of conspicuous consumption becomes a good thing.

pinarello001 wrote:

We would actually be better off buying a number plate as it would be an investment worth more in the long term than any ISA. Also, it would make my old banger a little less dated.

That's the thing. It wouldn't make your 'old banger' less dated. It wouldn't even make it look less dated (two different things). It would look like an old banger with personalised number plates. People would just think you are confused!

bernithebiker

Here's my take on it;

I used to be an oil trader and so brushed shoulders with a lot of high earners in the banking world. VERY few were super capable mega-traders. Many were downright stupid. All were on very high salaries. Luck and connections got many of them there, not brains or skill.

Are the chief execs of today worth 10 ten times what they were 10, 15 years ago? Then, a big chief exec salary was like 150, 200k. Now, it's 1m++ extras. And yet these business leaders are no better than their peers of yesteryear. This is unacceptable renumeration.

I resigned from this world 10 years ago and have no regrets whatsoever. 95% of the people in it were not nice. I swapped a big salary for lots more family time, outdoors/sports time, and learning new skills, (languages, piano, etc.) No point in dying super rich, but only having been good at one thing - oil trading - who cares? Now at 43, I'm very fit by most people's standards whereas the banker boys are distinctly chubby. If someone said, 'I'll give you £500 000 if you put on and keep on 10kg", no way would I do it.

On holiday in Thailand over Xmas we stayed in a mixture of 4/5 star hotels and beach huts. The former had the most uninspiring, boring, overweight clientele imaginable. The beach huts on the other hand at £20 a night, had a great crowd of younger, fitter, sparkier people and we ended up at the Full Moon Party on New Year's Eve and had a blast.

The rich people we still know seem desperate to acquire more wealth and to protect the wealth they have, above all else. They often don't consider themselves rich, because they have huge outgoings; cars, boats, villas, schools, etc.

So don't envy the rich, more feel sorry for them as many are trapped on a merry-go-round that they can't get off.

VTech

@pinarello001, I actually agree with almost all of what you say apart from the bottom section, that is simply flawed.
Its all well and good asking the rich to pay more tax but wether they decide for themselves or the accountant does, they will be told to do whats right to keep most of the cash and inevitably it will be to move capital or open a company and hire themselves to the company they either work for or own and pay 10% tax.
Charging higher amounts actually leads to less revenue so the general public in turn lose out.

@nathancom, I'm actually pointing out the very things you are arguing for and not against, how very odd.

@Rolf F, Again, I tend to agree with your points but as you may dislike private plates, others like it. Mine reflects my work and also a particular car I own and the wife has her name (spelt correctly). The gum ball plate was used for a rally and was a bit of fun then promptly sold on. I have actually never come across people that have openly told me they hate private plates before. Some have said its a waste of money or that they wouldn't have one but never that they hate them ?

@bernithebiker, I stopped with the family at the Fontainebleau late last year and we moved out the following day and moved up the beach into an apparthotel and had a fab time.
The Fontaine was full of pretty rich people and hookers to service them. We didn't like it at all and as I said, moved out.
Being rich or working to achieve is a merry go round, it is easy to say that this is purely for greed but for some its about being in the game and winning, maybe an addiction like gambling ?
I am not so sure its a better life than having a 9-5 and living week to week ?

verylonglegs

The positive side of personalised plates is that when sold for the first time they squeeze cash out of people that would likely otherwise be taken from the rest of us in taxes.

rolf_f

VTech wrote:

I have actually never come across people that have openly told me they hate private plates before. Some have said its a waste of money or that they wouldn't have one but never that they hate them ?

The thing is, it's not that I assume folk necessarily hate personalised number plates - rather that they will simply immediately assume the owner is a fool - 9 times out of 10 that's my reaction. And when the personalised plate involves stupid fonts and desperate fiddling around with things like black screw caps to turn 11s into Hs and the like then I know I was right. And that might prejudice them against employing that person. Put it this way - can you really imagine that many people will see your personalised number plate and think 'oh, he has a personalised number plate - he must be a good bloke' or 'he has a personalised number plate - he must be good at his job' or anything else actually positive?

nathancom

Vtech, Earlier you claimed the rich were the leaders and everyone else followers. In the face on opposition you have performed a volte-face whilst denying you ever made your previous points. Selective amnesia at its finest...

Anyway, have to agree with Rolf on the number plates, they generally equal prat in most people's eyes especially when attached to a BMW or land rover.

To my mind those plates are really and outward sign that someone is obsessed with money and it always seems to diminish people. The new Scorcese film, Wolf of Wall Street covers that excess. One of the funniest and sharpest movies I have seen in a while and it definitely leaves you in between hating the lifestyle of the super rich and being a little bit jealous.

arthur_scrimshaw

nathancom wrote:

Vtech, Earlier you claimed the rich were the leaders and everyone else followers. In the face on opposition you have performed a volte-face whilst denying you ever made your previous points. Selective amnesia at its finest...

Anyway, have to agree with Rolf on the number plates, they generally equal prat in most people's eyes especially when attached to a BMW or land rover.

To my mind those plates are really and outward sign that someone is obsessed with money and it always seems to diminish people. The new Scorcese film, Wolf of Wall Street covers that excess. One of the funniest and sharpest movies I have seen in a while and it definitely leaves you in between hating the lifestyle of the super rich and being a little bit jealous.

and a few posts earlier you commented how you nearly entered into a pointless argument with the o/p, seems you forgot your own advice?

pinno

Do not see why personal number plates are such a problem for some. I know a few people who have them. One is a nurse (grade f) who works in the MacMillan Unit in a hospital. She has dedicated her life to caring for the ill and terminally ill. She spent £22k on one. She is also gay and the plate always makes me smile.
My other friend owned a restaurant and cocktail bar called the L'Aperitif. After sale of the premises (property price downturn) and debts paid, he had little left over for years of hard work. His number plate YE52LAP, was the only real thing of value. You could not meet a more approachable man.
Up here it is common and I guess the culture daan saaf is different. Most people here see it as 'cool'. I see many cars from Ford Fiesta's to Citroen Saxo's with personal plates. I am totally indifferent to them

I do not think that a personal plate can be compared to the obscene display of wealth such as a multi million pound yacht.

pblakeney

pinarello001 wrote:

If you earn £5m per annum, you would not suffer one slight bit if I took 50% of it away in taxation and that would benefit many people. Actually, the very people who support you.

That is not strictly true.
Everyone lives to their means, or exceed them.
If you have a lot of money, you spend a lot of money, so someone cutting off that supply would definitely make you suffer. The loss would be relative, of course, but still significant.

MattC59

I don't think private plates are particularly wasteful, cost is relative.
They're just very w4nky.

VTech

nathancom wrote:

Vtech, Earlier you claimed the rich were the leaders and everyone else followers. In the face on opposition you have performed a volte-face whilst denying you ever made your previous points. Selective amnesia at its finest...

Anyway, have to agree with Rolf on the number plates, they generally equal prat in most people's eyes especially when attached to a BMW or land rover.

To my mind those plates are really and outward sign that someone is obsessed with money and it always seems to diminish people. The new Scorcese film, Wolf of Wall Street covers that excess. One of the funniest and sharpest movies I have seen in a while and it definitely leaves you in between hating the lifestyle of the super rich and being a little bit jealous.

I haven't changed my stance on that comment ?
A captain of industry is a leader, an employee a follower.

Neither is bad, its just the way it is.
You wouldn't call someone who works 9-5 and only thinks of work 5 minutes before the shift starts and forgets it 5 minutes after they finish a leader would you ?
Again, I'm not saying which is better, its just that you are trying to change or infer different things from what I wrote.

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

A captain of industry is a leader, an employee a follower.

Neither is bad, its just the way it is.
You wouldn't call someone who works 9-5 and only thinks of work 5 minutes before the shift starts and forgets it 5 minutes after they finish a leader would you ?

Hello Mr. VTech.
I generally agree with your opinions but that one is clearly wrong.
Just because someone is a leader, it does not mean that they have to be thinking business all the time.
There is a balance to life and if someone is thinking business all the time then they are losing out on family and friends. That would make them losers, not leaders.

sloppyschleckonds

PBlakeney wrote:

That would make them losers, not leaders.

Albeit a rich loser

VTech

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

A captain of industry is a leader, an employee a follower.

Neither is bad, its just the way it is.
You wouldn't call someone who works 9-5 and only thinks of work 5 minutes before the shift starts and forgets it 5 minutes after they finish a leader would you ?

Hello Mr. VTech.
I generally agree with your opinions but that one is clearly wrong.
Just because someone is a leader, it does not mean that they have to be thinking business all the time.
There is a balance to life and if someone is thinking business all the time then they are losing out on family and friends. That would make them losers, not leaders.

That was one of my earlier points in this thread. I said that although they may financially be better off they inevitably lose out elsewhere, usually family as friends. We could all class that as being a loser.
My mom who has always worked, early days as a power press operator and later in life as a care worker in a nursing home for dementia patients has always had a saying "shrouds have no pockets". Obviously her way of saying spend more time with the family which is why I made a massive personal change to my life in December and tbh I feel loads better for it. I just think that most people are creatures of habit, I am for sure but I'm tying to change.

d87francis

VTech wrote:

(I don't think anyone in Britain really knows poverty)

VTech you are so out of touch with Britain you should just permanently emigrate. We really don't need your wealth, your job creation , or your skewed values. How do homeless children fit into your worldview, they certainly aren't that way because they're lazy and we have over 80,000 in Britain? We're the seventh richest nation on the planet, there would be plenty to go round if it weren't for the super rich hogging all the resources, and they would not maintain their power if it weren't for morons constantly idolising them.

VTech

d87francis wrote:

VTech wrote:

(I don't think anyone in Britain really knows poverty)

VTech you are so out of touch with Britain you should just permanently emigrate. We really don't need your wealth, your job creation , or your skewed values. How do homeless children fit into your worldview, they certainly aren't that way because they're lazy and we have over 80,000 in Britain? We're the seventh richest nation on the planet, there would be plenty to go round if it weren't for the super rich hogging all the resources, and they would not maintain their power if it weren't for morons constantly idolising them.

Your comment or that of anyone suggesting British people know true poverty is a huge disrespect to the real sufferers.

I day again, no one in Britain knows or has the need to know true poverty. We have a welfare system that although won't buy you a yacht, it will feed you and you won't have to walk 40 miles for water or watch your children die of malnutrition.
Suggesting that we know this type of poverty or even trying to put the people struggling in the UK on he same level as Africans, Indians etc etc is "being out of touch"

When arguing me you should first start with a valid point as otherwise people will only laugh at what your writing.

nathancom

VTech wrote:

d87francis wrote:

VTech wrote:

(I don't think anyone in Britain really knows poverty)

VTech you are so out of touch with Britain you should just permanently emigrate. We really don't need your wealth, your job creation , or your skewed values. How do homeless children fit into your worldview, they certainly aren't that way because they're lazy and we have over 80,000 in Britain? We're the seventh richest nation on the planet, there would be plenty to go round if it weren't for the super rich hogging all the resources, and they would not maintain their power if it weren't for morons constantly idolising them.

Your comment or that of anyone suggesting British people know true poverty is a huge disrespect to the real sufferers.

I day again, no one in Britain knows or has the need to know true poverty. We have a welfare system that although won't buy you a yacht, it will feed you and you won't have to walk 40 miles for water or watch your children die of malnutrition.
Suggesting that we know this type of poverty or even trying to put the people struggling in the UK on he same level as Africans, Indians etc etc is "being out of touch"

When arguing me you should first start with a valid point as otherwise people will only laugh at what your writing.

No, there are people living lives of poverty in Britain. You really are clueless about the variety of conditions in which people live in your own country. You don't need to go all the way to India to find people who don't know where their next meal is coming from, people who have to choose between heating and eating, people whose entire lives are taken up with simply surviving one day to the next.

You worship money and the mega rich yet think to preach to everyone else on poverty now...

pblakeney

I think that people's points are being lost within their arguments.

Mr, VTech think that there should be no poverty in the UK given the systems put in place.

Mr. Nathancom thinks that poverty does indeed exist within the UK.

You are both correct.

Now, how do we fix it?