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PRO Race section and forum rules

ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,444
edited December 2013 in Pro race
As you don't seem to bother reading the rules, I have selected the relevant ones that you keep ignoring, in the hope that you stick to them in the future even in this now disgraced part of the forum

4) Use proper English, do not use 'txt tlk'.

5) The main forum sections are not an "online chat room" for inane banter or stupid postings.

9) Members are not permitted to harass or "flame" other members. Please note that this also includes the posting of taunts on a forum solely for the purpose of deriding that forum's topic and/or members

15) Do not create multiple accounts.

19) If the actions and posts of any member are causing the use of the forum to be unpleasant for others, the moderators can take action regardless of whether or not that user's posts are in contravention of the above rules.
Summary: Behave nicely. If doing it in 'the real world' would be frowned upon, don't do it here.
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Posts

  • ProssPross Posts: 29,629
    I haven't seen anyone using 'txt spk' :wink:
  • Pross wrote:
    I haven't seen anyone using 'txt spk' :wink:


    We'll take that as an improvement then... :wink:
  • Pross wrote:
    I haven't seen anyone using 'txt spk' :wink:


    We'll take that as an improvement then... :wink:


    Damn, you're good :)
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Dare I ask what happened to finally kill off the JTL thread?
  • Paul 8v wrote:
    Dare I ask what happened to finally kill off the JTL thread?

    I moved it to the Bottom bracket as it was full of inappropriate material. As I went to delete the shadow left in the PRO race section the all thing disappeared... probably better this way
  • I moved it to the Bottom bracket as it was full of inappropriate material.
    LOL (txt spk), Bike radar get's it's own clinic.
  • nic_77nic_77 Posts: 929
    Paul 8v wrote:
    Dare I ask what happened to finally kill off the JTL thread?

    I moved it to the Bottom bracket as it was full of inappropriate material. As I went to delete the shadow left in the PRO race section the all thing disappeared... probably better this way

    I was just about to make a humdinger of a post... nevermind (you can all just assume I said something brilliant).
  • I moved it to the Bottom bracket as it was full of inappropriate material. As I went to delete the shadow left in the PRO race section the all thing disappeared... probably better this way
    If you ever need a job, I reckon you've got good qualifications.
  • Here's hoping the race spoiler threads stay race oriented in the new year and not a load of gubbins about cheese and geology ... It's neither funny nor informative ...

    I'd suggest a general info. thread for each race (not each stage) that you can update if you're that way inclined ... doesn't ruin it for others with page after page of nothing (it's not just WBT that overtakes threads with inanity) ...
  • RonBRonB Posts: 3,984
    I don't agree. We've been there before regarding one thread for stage races and it doesn't help folks who want to keep up to speed with the race at their own pace, yet avoid spoilers.
  • nic_77nic_77 Posts: 929
    Two threads per day:

    Stage action spoiler
    Stage chat

    Everyone happy.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,219
    'cept everyone knows that everyone would be in the Stage Chat thread (which would have to be a spoiler)

    The forum has worked perfectly fine until a few weeks ago (and I still think it's ok, not sure why the mods are being so lock happy at the moment), it will be fine again when the racing starts.

    Perhaps Comrade Chasey needs to be given a break from Whole Forum Duties and just given Pro Race to control for a few weeks as he knows the score here well and hithertoo has modded it well.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver wrote:
    The forum has worked perfectly fine until a few weeks ago (and I still think it's ok, not sure why the mods are being so lock happy at the moment), it will be fine again when the racing starts.
    I agree, it will be fine again when you have something to talk about, but the standard of behaviour needs to improve.
    I normally don't even read these threads, but then report lights flash and guess what? It's the PRO race section again... someone got offended by someone else's post, so unusual!
    So either you all get on well and the thread survive until you start posting censored and inappropriate links and photos or you don't go on, start insulting each other and someone ends up in tears calling the nanny...
    If you think that banning WBT is the solution, I think not... as you still will post a lot of censored and still will argue, insult each other and call the nanny... besides having read a few of the posts, I don't see how he is breaking the rules and others are not... the definition of trolling seems to be "those I don't like are trolls"... if he goes down, probably a few others will follow suit.
    It's simple, very simple...

    1) Stop posting censored (think twice before posting)
    2) Don't argue with each other
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,219
    The nanny doesnt have to step in. For the last few years she just shrugged and left us to it...especially when the people crying for her are causing as much of the problem as they people they re crying about...

    One of the nice things about the sub forum is that it;s fairly self policing and also can meander a lot. The long flat stage threads are fun to follow because of what people decide to speak about. At least the rock and cheese posts are based on proper facts. You ll notice that there is no shortage of meandering on the stage commentary. Are you going to start locking Phil & Paul or Dave and Sean too? Stopping the meandering posts will just kill the forum (I ll stop posting naughty dinosaur words though, although subtle insults appear to be allowed still...). Remember that figure about 75% of TdF viewers are watching for the scenery?

    If people only want to know who is in the break and the time gap then they can just follow the CN ticker

    (Ok one sentence wasnt serious)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,192
    If you think that banning WBT is the solution, I think not... as you still will post a lot of censored and still will argue, insult each other and call the nanny... besides having read a few of the posts, I don't see how he is breaking the rules and others are not... the definition of trolling seems to be "those I don't like are trolls"... if he goes down, probably a few others will follow suit.
    It's simple, very simple...

    Actually, the definition of trolling is more along the lines of "posting deliberately inflammable material in order to provoke a response". When we've seen Chris Froome's poor showing in the SPoTY put down to "the general public thinking he's dodgy" (I paraphrase) then we know what's going on. There's a specific agenda being squeezed in with the most tenuous relation to the topic, in a manner designed to wind people up. And yes, it has wound people up, and people do respond. "Don't feed the troll" is always good advice, but I've never seen it heeded, en mass, on any forum I've ever been on.

    Successful trolls will always keep their posts broadly in line with the forum rules. They don't get caught out and get banned for a single post. They just carry on until Admin is forced to take action, because the forum degenerates (as it has done here over the last two weeks).

    I've only been posting here for a few years, and I've seen a few spats in that time (and a banning or two), but I don't think I've ever seen so many threads locked or such universal opposition to a single poster. Some of the most engaged, rational, knowledgeable and reasonable posters on this forum have attempted to debate with WBT, all have found themselves to be banging their heads against a brick wall. It's not all hot-heads slinging insults.


    I'd also like to draw your attention to rule 19 (my emphasis):
    19) If the actions and posts of any member are causing the use of the forum to be unpleasant for others, the moderators can take action regardless of whether or not that user's posts are in contravention of the above rules.

    That's where this is heading, it's just a question of when, and how many other posters end up getting dragged down and kicked out with him.

    15 years of Admin on a popular football board tell me the best answer is sooner rather than later.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • Bans don't fix the problem as the poster just creates another account and continues with even more vehemence ...

    Suspending the poster for a few days might might make them think about it a bit more ... As it's a way to defuse rather than inflame the issue ...
  • RonBRonB Posts: 3,984
    Its a shame we lost that thread. It was really informative in terms of the different rankings for teams and the levels of testing. In a similar vein it would be a shame to lose any one poster as well.

    Its ok to disagree from time to time. I wouldn't want it any other way; but I am frequently impressed by the level of knowledge of contributors here and I feel that being more informed really helps with my appreciation for the sport.

    (I am also annoyed about the trivia curfew btw. Lots of pics of trees not growing on soil in the data banks, since they're "my thing".)
  • More to the point, RonB, I'm looking forward to seeing your new film :wink:
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,501
    I agree, it will be fine again when you have something to talk about, but the standard of behaviour needs to improve.
    I normally don't even read these threads, but then report lights flash and guess what? It's the PRO race section again... someone got offended by someone else's post, so unusual!
    Two points:

    1. Seeing as you have rarely been seen in these parts I'm guessing you've had a massive increase in complaints over the past month. Would I be right? And why do you think it is more effective to treat the symptoms of an illness of the cause?

    2. You say you don't normally even read these threads. So how are you able to judge what is right or wrong for a forum you don't use? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a moderator (like Rick Chasey) who is familiar with the style of this sub forum? Or do you think it should be moulded in the image of which ever forum you frequent and to hell with the regular users. Never forget, as a moderator you are here to serve our needs, not vice versa.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,501
    More to the point, RonB, I'm looking forward to seeing your new film :wink:
    And reading his book.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • If you think that banning WBT is the solution, I think not... as you still will post a lot of censored and still will argue, insult each other and call the nanny... besides having read a few of the posts, I don't see how he is breaking the rules and others are not... the definition of trolling seems to be "those I don't like are trolls"... if he goes down, probably a few others will follow suit.
    It's simple, very simple...

    Actually, the definition of trolling is more along the lines of "posting deliberately inflammable material in order to provoke a response". When we've seen Chris Froome's poor showing in the SPoTY put down to "the general public thinking he's dodgy" (I paraphrase) then we know what's going on. There's a specific agenda being squeezed in with the most tenuous relation to the topic, in a manner designed to wind people up. And yes, it has wound people up, and people do respond. "Don't feed the troll" is always good advice, but I've never seen it heeded, en mass, on any forum I've ever been on.

    Successful trolls will always keep their posts broadly in line with the forum rules. They don't get caught out and get banned for a single post. They just carry on until Admin is forced to take action, because the forum degenerates (as it has done here over the last two weeks).

    I've only been posting here for a few years, and I've seen a few spats in that time (and a banning or two), but I don't think I've ever seen so many threads locked or such universal opposition to a single poster. Some of the most engaged, rational, knowledgeable and reasonable posters on this forum have attempted to debate with WBT, all have found themselves to be banging their heads against a brick wall. It's not all hot-heads slinging insults.


    I'd also like to draw your attention to rule 19 (my emphasis):
    19) If the actions and posts of any member are causing the use of the forum to be unpleasant for others, the moderators can take action regardless of whether or not that user's posts are in contravention of the above rules.

    That's where this is heading, it's just a question of when, and how many other posters end up getting dragged down and kicked out with him.

    15 years of Admin on a popular football board tell me the best answer is sooner rather than later.

    Some context if I may.

    I think I suffered some fairly strong abuse fairly quickly on the Walsh thread. Its not all one-way traffic. It was a very hostile experience.

    The other problem is people tried to draw battle lines between Sky and non-Sky. From that too many tried to be "right" and say I was "wrong" about everything I wrote.

    Several times I stated "nobody is right or wrong" but still people persisted with "I'm right, he's wrong".

    If you don't agree with what is written then either don't respond or respectfully state why you believe your view is different.

    Yes some topics are emotionally charged but lets not lose our heads and try to be right in every single instance.

    At the end of the day its a discussion forum. We all want people to come here and discuss all things cycling. Its a not a private members club for a select few of the same opinions. If so lock it down with a password and give logins out to a select few.

    Poster pictures and taking threads off topic was tantamount to a child throwing a tantrum. People didn't like what they were hearing so they wanted threads shut down.

    All I ask is to be treated respectfully and if you disagree then say why rather than demanding you are right and I'm just a stupid censored .

    Or don't reply to my post.

    That's fairly simple way to handle things here and in real life.
  • nic_77nic_77 Posts: 929
    The other problem is people tried to draw battle lines between Sky and non-Sky.

    I respectfully state that this has primarily been your agenda rather than anyone else's. Several innocent threads have been contorted into 'evidence' of widespread doping at Team Sky - the most obvious example being Froome's sixth place result in SPOTY.

    On a broader note, I'd suggest that if disruptive influences are allowed to remain unchecked. It will be the rational members of the forum that leave of their own accord. Removing traffic from Bike Radar in general.
  • RonBRonB Posts: 3,984
    I hope it is ok to reply and agree that you should be treated with respect. Lack of consistency is a bit of an issue as is the delivery at times; along the lines of the dreaded upward inflexion (?) But to be honest I really don't mind and I hope you are able to stick around until the racing starts.

    Thoughts? :wink:

    Just a quick quote from Brick - I can always guess how many jellybeans are in a jellybean jar, even if I’m wrong.
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,192
    WBT - I'll make an exception and reply to you here. It will be the last time.

    I don't reply to your posts. I don't engage with you. People have respectfully and patiently pointed out numerous flaws in your arguments, but it serves no purpose. You've consistently sought conflict. You've managed to label two of the forum's most vehemently anti-Sky posters as Sky fanboys. You spread insidious and highly tenuous conspiracy theory, engage in conjecture that is always seeking to point the finger of doping blame at Sky or Froome or both, and if Occam's razor were actually a razor then you'd have a beard unrivalled anywhere in Afghanistan.

    People (I, though I'm pretty sure there are more than a handful of others) want you gone because you make this forum an unpleasant, aggressive, tedious place.

    That's my last word to you.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • ^THIS
  • Can any of the Mods tell me what length of ban a blatant insult of a fellow forum member would warrant?
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • nic_77 wrote:
    The other problem is people tried to draw battle lines between Sky and non-Sky.

    I respectfully state that this has primarily been your agenda rather than anyone else's. Several innocent threads have been contorted into 'evidence' of widespread doping at Team Sky - the most obvious example being Froome's sixth place result in SPOTY.

    On a broader note, I'd suggest that if disruptive influences are allowed to remain unchecked. It will be the rational members of the forum that leave of their own accord. Removing traffic from Bike Radar in general.

    On the Froome RBC thread I agreed with your point of view. But you stuck at me. You didn't even want me to agree with you! You wanted to inflame, rile and upset me. It was somewhat Bananas.

    It was a good thread. I think many learnt a lot. It was good to know that a riders Crit will not be effected by a disease such as bilharzia.

    This is what I'm getting at. Even when I'm on your side you didn't want it. You wanted to push me and I just didn't take the bait.

    Put it another way if we put our heads together and learn more about the impacts of the disease we both would come up with some really good information for the greater benefit of the forum.

    I've never said Sky have widespread systematic doping. That's the way you wanted to interpret it because puts it clear in your mind and draws the battle lines clearly for you.

    There's been some significant events of recent in relation to Sky. So thus people will be talking about it. Walsh's book, JTL, Froome cured etc. This is not just me wandering in here trying to stir up problems. All of this has been in the news.

    JTL is another good instance. Its really good discussion to find out when the anomaly was. Simply stating "it was with Endura" with no more discussion gets us nowhere. Yes we don't have all the facts but don't you want to know more?

    Isn't this what we teach our children? To asks questions and to be inquisitive? If JTL doped with BC for the World Champs then yes the situation has a different context. That's not me bagging Sky. That's me asking a question - "how could that of happened" - which is a fair question to ask.

    The Rogers thread has just as many questions asked as did the JTL thread.

    Work with me here. I'm not the enemy. I just want to know what occurred and if its Sky related then so be it.
  • mike6mike6 Posts: 1,199
    WBT - I'll make an exception and reply to you here. It will be the last time.

    I don't reply to your posts. I don't engage with you. People have respectfully and patiently pointed out numerous flaws in your arguments, but it serves no purpose. You've consistently sought conflict. You've managed to label two of the forum's most vehemently anti-Sky posters as Sky fanboys. You spread insidious and highly tenuous conspiracy theory, engage in conjecture that is always seeking to point the finger of doping blame at Sky or Froome or both, and if Occam's razor were actually a razor then you'd have a beard unrivalled anywhere in Afghanistan.

    People (I, though I'm pretty sure there are more than a handful of others) want you gone because you make this forum an unpleasant, aggressive, tedious place.

    That's my last word to you.

    I concur 100% with this post. For the last few years I have enjoyed the banter and information on this site, and also the good nature disagreements. Recently it has been turned into a deeply dispiriting place with the constant doping accusations being spouted on thread after thread. Not that it matters, in the scheme of things, but I for one will be walking away from here if the tone continues. Life is too short to spend it in the company of trolls.
  • nic_77nic_77 Posts: 929
    nic_77 wrote:
    The other problem is people tried to draw battle lines between Sky and non-Sky.

    I respectfully state that this has primarily been your agenda rather than anyone else's. Several innocent threads have been contorted into 'evidence' of widespread doping at Team Sky - the most obvious example being Froome's sixth place result in SPOTY.

    On a broader note, I'd suggest that if disruptive influences are allowed to remain unchecked. It will be the rational members of the forum that leave of their own accord. Removing traffic from Bike Radar in general.

    On the Froome RBC thread I agreed with your point of view. But you stuck at me. You didn't even want me to agree with you! You wanted to inflame, rile and upset me. It was somewhat Bananas.

    It was a good thread. I think many learnt a lot. It was good to know that a riders Crit will not be effected by a disease such as bilharzia.

    This is what I'm getting at. Even when I'm on your side you didn't want it. You wanted to push me and I just didn't take the bait.

    Put it another way if we put our heads together and learn more about the impacts of the disease we both would come up with some really good information for the greater benefit of the forum.

    I've never said Sky have widespread systematic doping. That's the way you want to read it because puts it clear in your mind and draws the battle lines clearly for you.

    There's been some significant events of recent in relation to Sky. So thus people will be talking about it. Walsh's book, JTL, Froome cured etc. This is not just me wandering in here trying to stir up problems. All of this has been in the news.

    JTL is another good instance. Its really good discussion to find out when the anomaly is. Simply stating "it was with Endura" no more discussion gets us nowhere. Yes we don't have all the facts but don't you want to know more?

    Isn't this what we teach our children? To asks questions and to be inquisitive? If JTL doped with BC for the World Champs then yes the situation has a different context. That's not me bagging Sky. That's me asking a question - "how could that of happened" - which is a fair question to ask.

    The Rogers thread has just as many questions asked as did the JTL thread.

    Work with me here. I'm not the enemy. I just want to know what occurred and if its Sky related then so be it.
    I'm happy to discuss anything with anyone regardless of their opinion. However, if that person remains entrenched in a polemic I am unlikely to continue the discussion. I would expect you to do the same if that is how you feel.

    With that, for the good of the forum, I will refrain from any further engagement on any thread. Apologies to those who have been affronted by my input.
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,192
    nic_77 wrote:
    With that, for the good of the forum, I will refrain from any further engagement on any thread. Apologies to those who have been affronted by my input.

    :(

    Articulate, rational, patient, knowledgeable, polite, informative.

    Sad to see you go.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
This discussion has been closed.